Super Battle Droid vs Data

[Master of Ossus]

The ability to bash a BBD into scrap does not translate into the ability to bash Data into scrap. Big arms on a droid does not mean it is strong.

I believe the Visual Dictionary says they are more powerfull.

Data is far faster then an SBD and we have seen Data picking up rocks far larger then himself and moving things far heavier then he is. He's the size of a human, but he is far faster and stronger and smarter then one. In fact I am willing to say faster and stronger and smarter then an SBD.

In combat, data moves with the speed of a human.
And the droids armor will make it extremely hard for Data to inflict any real damage, while he is a soft target, one good hit could be crippling.

Data is not a soft target. His skin is irrelevent. It has no bearing on his performance. Just beneath his skin is a metal casing (ref. First Contact). Also, when Data was attacked by the Klingon who had heard much boasted about Data's strength, Data destroyed him without effort. The Klingon absolutely could not harm him in unarmed combat.

As for the Visual Dictionary, it also says that the Super Battle Droid is just a Battle Droid with some additional armor and weapons. That indicates clearly that it is LESS good at melee combat than the battle droid, because its mobility is more restricted by the weight of its armor and by the lack of articulation in its joints. I can't believe someone is stupid enough to take Omega-13's point of view.

[Master of Ossus]

As for hand to hand combat, could Data tear a superbattle droid apart?

No, the battledroid is armored with a very hard and resiliant exo-skeleton, is powerfull enough to disintegrate ordinary droids with his fists, Data was impaled and disabled by some guy with a spear or something.

Liar! The SBD did not disintegrate anything. The damage it inflicted on the BD was no greater than the damage caused to BD's by Gungan forces.

[HemlockGrey]

Omega, it doesn't matter if the blaster is damaged. The blaster is *in the arm* so if it's destroyed, the SBD can't engage in melee combat anyway.

[Howedar]

HDS, please explain to me how the joints of the SBD are condusive to melee combat, particularly when such joints as the hip are single-axis only.

[His Divine Shadow]

Liar! The SBD did not disintegrate anything. The damage it inflicted on the BD was no greater than the damage caused to BD's by Gungan forces.

First, get a fucking grip will you

Secondly, the gungans hit the droids with weaponry, not kinetic impacts.
Thirdly, don't be so fucking over literal.
What if I had sad "the SBD totally blew away the BD" Would you have claimed it did not blow up or anything then?

The exact sequence of event is that it smacks it near the neck and the droids neck snaps like a twig and is thrown away.

Clips affixed here for people to judge for themselves.
http://hisshadow.123hostnow.com/misc/me ... c/sbd2.avi

Howedar:
The arm can move back and forward and outward from the shoulder somewhat atleast(atleast 90 degrees outward from the torso have been observed), we do not know the extent of it so far.

The upper limb of the SBD arm can rotate(unknown number of degrees), I see it do that, the joint itself is single axis, but the effect is the same really.

The lower arm can rotate too(180 degrees back and forth observed).

[His Divine Shadow]

HDS, please explain to me how the joints of the SBD are condusive to melee combat, particularly when such joints as the hip are single-axis only.

Oh, you said hip, I did not say it was designed for meele combat(did I?), I said it could do meele combat, atleast it's arms can.

[His Divine Shadow]

Data is not a soft target. His skin is irrelevent. It has no bearing on his performance. Just beneath his skin is a metal casing (ref. First Contact). Also, when Data was attacked by the Klingon who had heard much boasted about Data's strength, Data destroyed him without effort. The Klingon absolutely could not harm him in unarmed combat.

Ok, so this metal can be breached by a farmer with a spear, since he was impaled this way and deactivated.
He's a big softie inside.

As for the Visual Dictionary, it also says that the Super Battle Droid is just a Battle Droid with some additional armor and weapons. That indicates clearly that it is LESS good at melee combat than the battle droid, because its mobility is more restricted by the weight of its armor and by the lack of articulation in its joints. I can't believe someone is stupid enough to take Omega-13's point of view.

I can't believe how much of a turncoat bastard you really are, I thought you where a nice guy, but it seems you turn viciously on anyone not agreeing with you instead.

Articulation of it's arm joints where shown to be quite sufficient in the movie to just grab Data as he's prancing around, or just sit on him should be enough.

And now I can call you a lying piece of >badword< too!
Quoting.
Page 54:
"Arms stronger than Battle Broid limbs"

[His Divine Shadow]

My final statement on the meele, it's like the Kung-Fu master versus the Heavy Weight Boxing Champion of the world.

The Kung-fu master can win, if he plays his cards right, but one good punch or hit from the champion would end the fight.
And seeing Data fight drones in ST:FC, I say the odds are 60-70/40-30 in the SBD's favor.

[Omega-13]

I still can't believe people actually think an infantry droid would not be programmed in hand to hand combat, sad really

[Omega-13]

Omega, it doesn't matter if the blaster is damaged. The blaster is *in the arm* so if it's destroyed, the SBD can't engage in melee combat anyway.

why? the blaster can still be damaged, the arm work fine,
and why can't it fight hand to hand with 1 arm?

[Captain Cyran]

And now I can call you a lying piece of >badword< too!
Quoting.
Page 54:
"Arms stronger than Battle Broid limbs"

If I may, I don't think that is much of a feat....

[Master of Ossus]

Why do you guys insist that all infantry combat droids must be designed with the capability to fight in melee combat? That does not make sense and is further completely inconsistent with the manner in which we see TF armies operate. The Droideka is clearly not designed for melee combat. In fact, it appears to be completely incapable of engaging in melee combat. The droideka is well designed to do what it does. It deploys to an area and opens fire. That is essentially what the SBD is designed to do. The articulation of the joints is insufficient to provide it with a good HtH capability. What's more, the thing is still well designed. There is really no reason to design such a thing with HtH combat in mind. It would provide better combat functioning for the same money if the TF was just to write off droids whose blasters were seriously damaged, and build more with the money that they would otherwise have spent in upgrading the droids to fight in HtH combat that they would almost never use.

[Master of Ossus]

The word "stronger" proves nothing, it is probably referring to the resistance of the arm.

More importantly, the droid clearly has two blasters. What are the odds that both of them are damaged?

Also, the Droideka is stated on the same page to be completely built for war. Now, obviously the SBD is designed as a war machine. The droideka's arms are clearly not meant for HtH combat. By exension, we can derive that droids built for "war" are not necessarily designed for HtH combat. Since the SBD is clearly not as useful for labor as other models (its hands lack articulation--the price for damage resistance, and it must be more expensive than regular BD's, and its armor is actually a detriment when trying to operate a cost effective labor force), we should be able to assume that the SBD is not capable of posing as a labor droid, or anything other than a war droid. Thus we can agree that the thing is built for war. That does not necessarily mean that it is also capable of engaging in HtH combat.

[Kamakazie Sith]

It's in the fight scene, the SBD walks forward, slaps the battledroid outta the way so hard it breaks.

It simply knocked the droid over, and considering what we've seen in TPM that is not very hard.

And you call yourself a warsie... tsk. tsk...
Those hands of it's are like claws, they have no fingers, just a palm a thumb and one big armored mega finger or something, looks almost like a boxing glove.

Umm I'm not a warsie

I'd say it's much stronger than stormie armor, remember, this armor needs not be light, like stormie armor, because it's not limited by human strenght.
And we do see it take blaster hits and they just make dents or vape small craters in it.

Do you have any official or canon evidence, that's what I was really looking for. Not your personal opinion.....no offense.

And the Clone rifles wich totally blows up Droiddekas doesn't seem to be able to be as powerfull on SBD's either, they throw them back, but they are intact.

How much intact though?

[His Divine Shadow]

As you know, I lie alot, I am back.

It simply knocked the droid over, and considering what we've seen in TPM that is not very hard

Watch the clip, the droid broke in pieces, including it's neck wich was broken like a twig.

Umm I'm not a warsie

Ahhh, I mistook you for Kaz...

Do you have any official or canon evidence, that's what I was really looking for. Not your personal opinion.....no offense.

Offense taken, great great offense indeed...
Anyhow the fact that these things are made of metal, they take hits that would kill stormies, doesn't even bother them, only nicks the armor.

How much intact though?

Fully intact AFAIK, possible penetration that could have done damage under the armor, but I do not know for certain.
It's not even certain the droids where destroyed by the blasts.

[His Divine Shadow]

The word "stronger" proves nothing, it is probably referring to the resistance of the arm.

No, it says it's stronger, and so it should be given the extra armor and what it did to that BD also proves it's stronger, thats just logical, why you are so opposed to this, I'll never figure out.

The droideka's arms are clearly not meant for HtH combat.

I disagree, they have demonstrated the ability to articulate their arms to nearly the same degree as humans, the only thing we have not seen them do, is lift their arms outwards for more than 90 degrees.

By exension, we can derive that droids built for "war" are not necessarily designed for HtH combat.

Not designed for optimal HtH combat does not equal it will suck at HtH combat, what I've seen it could certanly slap Data around easily, Data weighs no more than a human, this thing might weigh several tons.

Since the SBD is clearly not as useful for labor as other models (its hands lack articulation--the price for damage resistance,

But it would be good for hitting things, I don't see the need for hand/finger articulation when your gonna smash your fists into things.

That does not necessarily mean that it is also capable of engaging in HtH combat.

AOTC shows its limbs certanly are nimble, quick and strong enough to work with HtH combat, even if they are not designed for it, since it doesn't mean they are unable to.
And I think what we've seen is plenty enough to fell Data, given his performance in ST:FC and being disabled by a spear in the show.