Site Updates

[DarkStar]

They intrude in the time periods, but you know what George Lucas says, don'tcha, Spoofe? The EU occurs in a parallel universe.

When it contradicts. Never anytime else.

Lucas never, ever said that, nor is it implicit in the quote. Would you care to provide a reference for that fabrication?

[SirNitram]

Various quotes from LucasFilm regarding Canon, and stating that not just novels, but also comics, Star Wars Gamer, and others are all part of continuity...

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc ... 10817.html

The STAR WARS films are the only primary reference. With the exception of only a few minor points, they are indisputable. This is not a merely personal opinion; it is the explicit policy of the Continuity and Production Editors at Lucasfilm. They are interviewed in STAR WARS Insider #23:

What's 'gospel' and what isn't?
'Gospel,' or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history -- with many off-shoots, variations and tangents -- like any other well-developed mythology.

Lifted from Dr. Curtis Saxton's site, the one LucasFilm reviewed for giving him the assignment to write the Episode II Incredible Cross Sections book. Logic, something you have no connection with, RSA, states they must agree with him. Of course, you have no interest in logic.

[Cal Wright]

The scaling to HTLs, BDZs...

C - A - N - O - N. That's what we're looking for, here.

You do know that they announced some time ago that all things in Star Wars is cannon. Starting with the movies and working thier way down. Viva la 200 GT!!!

[TheDarkling]

Arent probes of similar construction to torps? and didnt probes get blasted into a planet which housed Datas friend when her planet was falling apart.

Sarjenka's planet, and yes, burrowing occurred. I'm not sure if they were torpedoes or probes, nor am I certain if they were specially outfitted devices. As I recall, though, there was a landing followed by burrowing.

They were class one probes in a torp casing (for protection).

It is possible some digging occured but how this would happen since the probe is in a torp case is unknown.

It is also possible that the impact carried the torp to the desired depth.

We also know that torps have shields and so ramming into rock seems possible, although Im not sure what shield power that would require - anyone can to guess?

We've never seen a shielded object ram straight through a solid object like that.

Well its clear the torps hit the ground at the speed I showed further up the thread now it possible they didnt have shields on and the case was enough to protect the probe so......

However torps have displayed an ability to dig into rock, I cant speculate on depth however.

Not bad. The only problem is it doesn't match up with other examples. It's probably that bombardment shots move faster, much like the huge planetary ion cannon's shots.

We see the torps being fired then we cut to a display showing them and the planet.

It may be possible that the torps were fired at greater than normal speeds to aid in gaining the depth necessary to activate the resonators.

[DarkStar]

Logic, something you have no connection with, RSA, states they must agree with him.

Illogical. Signing him up as author of the ICS does not mean that his every viewpoint is considered valid by Lucas and company.

[Master of Ossus]

That's crap. You happily spouted non-canon SW.com information on your site.

Not in the place of canon information.

Your statements that you only use canon are a facade, and a cowardly attempt to avoid criticism by deflecting it.

I only argue against the canon, because as the real story of Star Wars, that is all there is to argue against.

I do include arguments against Warsie mumbo-jumbo . . . some is based on the non-canon, such as can be found on my neutronium page . . . some is based on canon, such as the Millenium Falcon acceleration page, the Death Star superlaser page, et cetera. Warsie mumbo-jumbo is Warsie mumbo-jumbo, no matter where it comes from.

In reality, it is true that I need not include arguments against non-canon Warsie mumbo-jumbo. All I need to do is say "that isn't canon", and be done with it. However, I believe it is helpful . . . not only as a demonstration of common Warsie argument styles, but also to debunk Warsie arguments from within.

What I have found amusing are the myriad cases where strictly-canon elements of my page are argued against with the non-canon BS. This is one such example, and it is not improper in the slightest for me to point out that he's ignoring the canon context.

Now, if he were arguing against my neutronium or BDZ pages with some non-canon reference and I suddenly said "well, that isn't canon" ( referring to his reference . . . as opposed to "well, the entire concept isn't canon anyway"), you might have a basis for your whining.

As it stands, though, you're just whining.

But, don't you see the hypocrisy of what you are doing? You are forbidding all of us from using official information to attack your website, while giving yourself the right to selectively add in bits and pieces of official information that support you, without giving anyone else the ability to rebut you. This is basically an escape clause. I'm not really whining (because I really don't care about you or your stupid site), but I would really like it if you demonstrated more consistency on this matter in the future.

[Master of Ossus]

Logic, something you have no connection with, RSA, states they must agree with him.

Illogical. Signing him up as author of the ICS does not mean that his every viewpoint is considered valid by Lucas and company.

Do you really think that no one went through and edited ICS? Of course they did. Even if they decided not to substantially change what was already written, it was edited. If that is the case (that they didn't change much), it indicates that what Saxton wrote about was more or less accurate, and that it needed no tweaking to allow it to fit within the SW movies.

Incidentally, this part of the quote:

The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play.

means that ICS is more canonical than the EU (but not the movie novelisations). So shut the hell up about that.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Not in the place of canon information.

Well, you know what George Lucas says, don'tcha, Darkstar? That the EU intrudes in between the movies? That when we lack canon information, we turn towards the official? That's kinda what Lucasfilm's policy has been since day one...

They intrude in the time periods, but you know what George Lucas says, don'tcha, Spoofe? The EU occurs in a parallel universe.

Just because parts of it contradict canon doesn't mean that the entire EU should be thrown out in debates. I like your logic. Besides, Trekkies want the EU disregarded because most of the EU helps the SW in their debates.

[Ender]

*Onboard the USS DarkStar*

Scooter: Unidentified craft Sector four to Sector four two six one. Overtaking us, no response to our hailing.
...
G2K: Sensors report a minimum range combat craft of the Squadron Class, twenty-six crew.
Scooter: Captain, they have locked logic.
Robert Scott Anderson: Logic?
Guardian 2000: Regulations call for a Yellow Alert.
Robert Scott Anderson: It's too small of a craft to be of any threat to us. Do you agree, Scooter?
Scooter: That won't even penetrate our wall of perpetual ignorance.

[Headshots_Sold_Here]

quote:



Originally posted by Master of Ossus:

That's crap. You happily spouted non-canon SW.com information on your site.





Not in the place of canon information.



quote:



Your statements that you only use canon are a facade, and a cowardly attempt to avoid criticism by

deflecting it.





I only argue against the canon, because as the real story of Star Wars, that is all there is to argue against.

I do include arguments against Warsie mumbo-jumbo . . . some is based on the non-canon, such as can be found on my neutronium page . . . some is based on canon, such as the Millenium Falcon acceleration page, the Death Star superlaser page, et cetera. Warsie mumbo-jumbo is Warsie mumbo-jumbo, no matter where it comes from.

In reality, it is true that I need not include arguments against non-canon Warsie mumbo-jumbo. All I need to do is say "that isn't canon", and be done with it. However, I believe it is helpful . . . not only as a demonstration of common Warsie argument styles, but also to debunk Warsie arguments from within.

What I have found amusing are the myriad cases where strictly-canon elements of my page are argued against with the non-canon BS. This is one such example, and it is not improper in the slightest for me to point out that he's ignoring the canon context.

Now, if he were arguing against my neutronium or BDZ pages with some non-canon reference and I suddenly said "well, that isn't canon" ( referring to his reference . . . as opposed to "well, the entire concept isn't canon anyway"), you might have a basis for your whining.

As it stands, though, you're just whining.

Translation: I argue with only the movies because I hate the ICS. When I think it helps me, I argue with official sources but when someone else quotes ics or something else I bitch about non-cannon.
How many times will it take to get this through your apparently neutronium lined skull?
Canon order:
1. Movies
2. Novelizations
3. Radioplays
4. Anything marked as official when not contradicted by the above items.
Ok???
WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THIS.

[Isil`Zha]

Go back to your homeland: alt.troll :p

(Yes, that's right... it does exists! )

[Ender]

I still want to know where you get any indication of 'Low-hyperspace" from any canon or official, or drunken grafatti in the men's room by any sw author.

Oh wait, you made it up and deliberatly ignored the total contradiction with ROTJ showing us hyperspace travel.

[SPOOFE]

They intrude in the time periods, but you know what George Lucas says, don'tcha, Spoofe? The EU occurs in a parallel universe.

Yes, a parallel universe that intrudes on the real universe in between the movies. So when a parallel universe intrudes on the real universe, those areas of intrusion then become part of the real universe.

Ergo, as long as it's not contradicted by the movies, it stands.

How else are you going to explain away the "intrudes in between the movies" clause, Darkstar? How else can you interpret it? Please provide a viable means of interpreting that qualifier with the rest of Lucas' quote - along with the rest of Lucasfilm's canon policy that states that the EU is official as long as it doesn't contradict the movie - so that it creates a uniform, solidified policy.

[NecronLord]

He's not worth talking to, just ignore the brainless troll...

[SPOOFE]

But I like belittling my inferiors. I just take pleasure in knowing that, in twenty years, Darkstar's probably going to be scrubbing my toilets.

[Ryoga]

I think it's a waste of time, myself. Every single thread he's participated in has resulted in an immense wall of spam, simply because he can't accept when he's beaten.

Heck, I think he's forgotten when he said the line that's become my sig. I recommend we just pretend he isn't here.

[DarkStar]

You are forbidding all of us from using official information to attack your website, while giving yourself the right to selectively add in bits and pieces of official information that support you, without giving anyone else the ability to rebut you.

No, because as I just explained, you are at liberty to attack a section of my page which argues against Warsie non-canon mumbo-jumbo, such as the neutronium page. I only bitch when you bring up non-canon against, for example, the paragraph I had to quote in this thread for whatzisname.

This is basically an escape clause.

It could only be an escape clause if it were used on every occasion or inconsistently. However, as far as I can recall, I have used it consistently to refute stupid non-canon claims against canon-only claims I have made on the site. If, however, you feel I have used this "escape clause" of yours on occasions where my claims about non-canon have been argued against by use of non-canon, and if your feeling is backed up by fact, then I apologize for the error. However, it still wouldn't be an escape clause in that instance.

[DarkStar]

Do you really think that no one went through and edited ICS? Of course they did.

I agree. But, Saxton was their science guy . . . part of the reason he was brought in was his astrophysics background, as per his interview on TheForce.Net . . . do you think anyone there knew what the hell he was talking about when he was whipping out gigatons and terajoules?

Even if they decided not to substantially change what was already written, it was edited. If that is the case (that they didn't change much), it indicates that what Saxton wrote about was more or less accurate, and that it needed no tweaking to allow it to fit within the SW movies.

So what? Are you arguing that it is therefore canon?

Incidentally, this part of the quote:

The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play.

means that ICS is more canonical than the EU (but not the movie novelisations). So shut the hell up about that.

At no point has any ICS, including this most recent one, been labelled as more canonical than or outside of the EU. It is only your desperate desire that this be the case. It is EU. Deal with it.

[Master of Ossus]

No, because as I just explained, you are at liberty to attack a section of my page which argues against Warsie non-canon mumbo-jumbo, such as the neutronium page. I only bitch when you bring up non-canon against, for example, the paragraph I had to quote in this thread for whatzisname.

So, basically what you are saying is that you can attack random parts of the EU, and then, if we choose to defend those parts of the EU, then we cannot use official evidence?

[DarkStar]

I still want to know where you get any indication of 'Low-hyperspace" from any canon or official, or drunken grafatti in the men's room by any sw author.

Wow. Now I'm even attacked when I give SW the benefit of the doubt.

[Master of Ossus]

You are forbidding all of us from using official information to attack your website, while giving yourself the right to selectively add in bits and pieces of official information that support you, without giving anyone else the ability to rebut you.

No, because as I just explained, you are at liberty to attack a section of my page which argues against Warsie non-canon mumbo-jumbo, such as the neutronium page. I only bitch when you bring up non-canon against, for example, the paragraph I had to quote in this thread for whatzisname.

This is basically an escape clause.

It could only be an escape clause if it were used on every occasion or inconsistently. However, as far as I can recall, I have used it consistently to refute stupid non-canon claims against canon-only claims I have made on the site. If, however, you feel I have used this "escape clause" of yours on occasions where my claims about non-canon have been argued against by use of non-canon, and if your feeling is backed up by fact, then I apologize for the error. However, it still wouldn't be an escape clause in that instance.

Wait, you qualify this statement by saying that it is not an escape clause because you use it consistently, but if you used it inconsistently it would still not be an escape clause?

[Master of Ossus]

Incidentally, this part of the quote:

The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play.

means that ICS is more canonical than the EU (but not the movie novelisations). So shut the hell up about that.

At no point has any ICS, including this most recent one, been labelled as more canonical than or outside of the EU. It is only your desperate desire that this be the case. It is EU. Deal with it.

What the hell are you talking about? ICS clearly does not branch further from the movies than the novels. Therefore, it should be MORE canonical than the EU, though not necessarily canon. It should be placed below the canon, but above the rest of the EU (given the power to override the EU on things). Doesn't that seem reasonable, given that quote on canonicity?

[DarkStar]

How else are you going to explain away the "intrudes in between the movies" clause, Darkstar? How else can you interpret it?

I have no need to "explain away" the intrusion, because it does not harm my argument in the slightest. Meanwhile, you must explain away the parallel universes idea.

For further debate on this topic, would you gentlemen mind venturing over here: http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 4&start=60

500 debates on the Canon Policy at once, strewn all over the damn board, gets pretty tiresome.

[DarkStar]

This is basically an escape clause.

It could only be an escape clause if it were used on every occasion or inconsistently. However, as far as I can recall, I have used it consistently to refute stupid non-canon claims against canon-only claims I have made on the site. If, however, you feel I have used this "escape clause" of yours on occasions where my claims about non-canon have been argued against by use of non-canon, and if your feeling is backed up by fact, then I apologize for the error. However, it still wouldn't be an escape clause in that instance.

Wait, you qualify this statement by saying that it is not an escape clause because you use it consistently, but if you used it inconsistently it would still not be an escape clause?

No, Ossus, that is not what I said. Please go back and re-read what I said, and return when you figure it out.

[seanrobertson]

Fuck you Darkstar, you linked LIGHT TURBOLASER CALCS!

Which I still don't get...a few gigawatts for those weapons is
obscenely low. Even if the asteroids were a mere 10m in
diameter, we're looking at hundreds of terawatts at *least*.
(I know. Everybody knows this already .)

Oh and by the way,

"We shouldn't be seeing fragments more than a centimeter in diameter."


So it wasn't going to vaporized!

Right. It was an impressive display, though, for VGR. Those asteroids
are bigger than I remembered them.

At 210m wide, it'd take 9.3 kilotons to fragment the 'roid. That's
a reasonable lower-limit, since a large portion of it was going to
be vaporized (but not all, obviously).

I wouldn't doubt that these are maximum yield torpedos, however.
VGR was desperately trying to destroy the asteroids before they
entered a planet's atmosphere. You wouldn't want to dink around
or play with reduced settings in such a scenario, *especially* when
you've got a rep of that planet's governing body onboard, standing
on the bridge watching you no less!

Sean
Analyst http://www.babtech-onthe.net/