Trade Federation vs. United Federation

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seanrobertson
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Post by seanrobertson »

seanrobertson wrote:Well, I've done a little number crunching this afternoon outta sheer boredom, but I need to know a few things before I can really go forward.

First, what's the relationship between a shield's strength and its power requirements? Does a one billion terawatt-resistant shield require that much power to run/raise, or do we simply not know?
Quick addendum to that long post:

When I estimated the core ship's range, I assumed that it was able to sustain its maximum reactor output for the duration of that time. From that, I was able to guess at what its fuel reserves might be (2.5E29J).

Honestly, though I'm just as Imperial (TM) as anyone else here, I felt that no. was potentially too high. And indeed, the power that the hyperdrive would consume to traverse 250,000 ly is probably *not* the reactor's peak output.

It could be, but that is a shit basis for an argument, an appeal to ignorance.

I know of no real lower-limit to place on the power a hyperdrive consumes...I recall Michael and Curtis mentioning such things, but alas--I can't find 'em.

So please treat those figures as throw-aways. I like to think it wasn't all in vain, but I need a lot more specifics before I go any further.
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Post by Isolder74 »

i like to know where he get the Info about Energy Weapons In the current War in Iraq. According to my sources the closest thing to a Energy Weapon would be a EMP warhead for cruise missile. It does not use any particle tech as far as I know. The only laser anywhere close to deployment is a Anti-missile ! MWatt laser the the Airforce is testing right now. All of these things come out of The old STI program. The Only lasers in general deploymenrt are used to guide bombs to their targets.
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Post by Lord of the Farce »

Bleh, if we follow his idiotic logic, then since we have anti-matter today and know how bloody inefficient they are (you need shitload of energy just to create tiny bit of anti-matter), then obviously they would be just as useless in future they are now (regardless of advancement or actual numbers).
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Post by JodoForce »

seanrobertson wrote:
seanrobertson wrote:Well, I've done a little number crunching this afternoon outta sheer boredom, but I need to know a few things before I can really go forward.

First, what's the relationship between a shield's strength and its power requirements? Does a one billion terawatt-resistant shield require that much power to run/raise, or do we simply not know?
Quick addendum to that long post:

When I estimated the core ship's range, I assumed that it was able to sustain its maximum reactor output for the duration of that time. From that, I was able to guess at what its fuel reserves might be (2.5E29J).

Honestly, though I'm just as Imperial (TM) as anyone else here, I felt that no. was potentially too high. And indeed, the power that the hyperdrive would consume to traverse 250,000 ly is probably *not* the reactor's peak output.

It could be, but that is a shit basis for an argument, an appeal to ignorance.

I know of no real lower-limit to place on the power a hyperdrive consumes...I recall Michael and Curtis mentioning such things, but alas--I can't find 'em.

So please treat those figures as throw-aways. I like to think it wasn't all in vain, but I need a lot more specifics before I go any further.
On the other hand, Imperial SDs are said to have the ability to operate independently for 4 years, I assume in a war footing. I suppose you would expect that the ISD be able to keep its shields up for a significant part of these 4 years (otherwise it wouldn't be useful in battle for much of the 4 years). Does the TF ship have comparable capabilities?
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Post by spaceluigi »

First of all, lasers move at the speed of light because they are light. Light is comprised of photons. Any fool knows that photons have mass. It was proven. Massless particles can barely interact with massive particles. Light can push spacecraft. It was done using Mariner's solar panels as light sails, the suns light pushed the craft. There have been solar sail ships launched. Photons have mass... they move at the speed of light...
Tachyons have mass... they move faster than light...
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Post by seanrobertson »

spaceluigi wrote:First of all, lasers move at the speed of light because they are light. Light is comprised of photons. Any fool knows that photons have mass.
Light has no mass.

Fool.
It was proven. Massless particles can barely interact with massive particles. Light can push spacecraft. It was done using Mariner's solar panels as light sails, the suns light pushed the craft.
P = u/c.

You're not even familiar with the site you're trolling, Weegie. Michael did a page about the power of a turbolaser if it was composed of massless particles. Why did he do that?

DING! That's RIGHT: to answer morons who wanted to claim turbolasers were LASERS.

Turboasers do have an invisible/c component, but there's no reason to get into that; you're seemingly only capable of trolling a single part of someone's post.
There have been solar sail ships launched. Photons have mass... they move at the speed of light...
Tachyons have mass... they move faster than light...
Why don't you just shut up? This shit isn't even funny.
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

Nothing with mass can travel at light! You can travel below C (obviously) and tachyeons are theorized to travel above C, but neither can travel at C!
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Post by spaceluigi »

Very good. They only call c the speed of light, but I guess light can't move at c. Ok, anyhow, I've just figured a weapon that could easily decimate the Death Star in one shot, thus one siding the battle. Don't worry though, you still have your fighters that possess the firepower of a small Federation fleet... without quantum torpedoes.

Quantum torpedoes use a subtle, little known energy known by many names. "Quintessence", "Zero-point energy" or "ZPE", and lastly, the common name is simply vacuum energy. It exists where nothing else does, in a non-particulate form. It is instead of attracted to, repelled by gravity (justifying why is exists in vacuums). It houses 2/3 of the universe's energy, and has been nearly proven with instances of the Casmir Effect. It is such a dense energy, that if its negating counterpart were not present, the universe would expand so fast that all particle electrostatic and nuclear bonds would be broken. Now, Quantum torpedoes can't trigger a universal release of this energy, but they can trigger a local release of the energy (by negating the counterpart force). It doesn't matter how strong you boast your shields to be. It doesn't matter what armor you have. And starfighters, as said earlier, are little more than cannon fodder. If that controlling energy is released locally, even for a billionth of a second, the damage would be catastrophic. Even to the Enterprise. But, nevertheless the Federation has utilized them, on Starfleet vessels.

If you don't believe me, look at this. The Star Trek Encyclopedia simply states that quantum torpedoes trigger a localized release. Now, the Encyclopedia has been used ONLY to identify the principle behind the Quantum Torpedoes.

PhysicsWeb.org -- "Today's cosmologists find Lambda to be just as objectionable, but for a different reason. All quantum fields possess a finite amount of "zero-point" vacuum energy as a result of the uncertainty principle. A naive estimate of the zero-point energy predicts a vacuum energy density that is 120 orders of magnitude greater than the energy density of all the other matter in the universe. If the vacuum energy density really is so enormous, it would cause an exponentially rapid expansion of the universe that would rip apart all the electrostatic and nuclear bonds that hold atoms and molecules together. There would be no galaxies, stars or energy as we know it."

www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/html/warp/possible.htm#vac -- "In simplistic terms it has been said that there is enough energy in the volume the size of a coffee cup to boil away Earth’s oceans." (Popular Science, May 2001, mentioned the 1 cc of space could tackle the whole boil the oceans thing)

There ya go.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Delete his post.
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Post by spaceluigi »

PS: My bad, I apologize. Photons are massless. I concede defeat IN THAT AREA... to seanrobertson. I admit defeat. Congratulations.
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Post by Shinova »

This solar sail you're talking about probably uses solar wind to travel, not light per se.


Though there have been talk of using a laser to propel a ship like that.....BLEH, nevermind.
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Post by Isolder74 »

Shinova wrote:This solar sail you're talking about probably uses solar wind to travel, not light per se.


Though there have been talk of using a laser to propel a ship like that.....BLEH, nevermind.
Light does have momentum.

A solar sail used both the momentum of Light and the Solar wind to accellerate. The Problem is that to use both the thing has to be huge.
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Post by spaceluigi »

Theoretically, a disk sail made of aluminum (It would be so thin that it could not support its weight in Earth gravity) pushed by an orbital or moon based laser with the power of 4 nuclear reactors (With the power output of the Springfield plant) would be capable of attaining .5c.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

spaceluigi wrote:Theoretically, a disk sail made of aluminum (It would be so thin that it could not support its weight in Earth gravity) pushed by an orbital or moon based laser with the power of 4 nuclear reactors (With the power output of the Springfield plant) would be capable of attaining .5c.
Erm... what? Are you sure about these statistics, or did you just BS them like you normally do?
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Post by spaceluigi »

Actually, it's from information gotten off of a card/notebook set named Secrets of the Universe. Cheesy name, but really interesting. I'm not sure which card it is, but it's quite interesting. It mentions other sublight forms of travel, such as the Bussard Ramjet or even a Aculbierre ship.
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Post by Lord of the Farce »

spaceluigi wrote:Ok, anyhow, I've just figured a weapon that could easily decimate the Death Star in one shot, thus one siding the battle. Don't worry though, you still have your fighters that possess the firepower of a small Federation fleet... without quantum torpedoes. -snip
Funny, given all that stuff about ZPE and how powerful it is that NEVER in the history of Star Trek has quantum torpedoes demonstrated ANYWHERE NEAR that kind of firepower. As others has brought up in the past, if you want to play the word game, then Star Destroyers can really destroy stars, and phaser rifles are projectile weapons with a spiralled bore. :roll:
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Post by Captain Underling »

I think, JodoForce, that it would be unrealistic to expect an ISD to operate for all four years with shields up. War footing doesn't mean constant battle. They say war is 99% boredom with 1% total terror. Most of the four years would be patrol/war games/inspections/etc. Assuming the shields are kept in a state of readiness for use (i.e., when on patrol) they are still not up for a significant amount of time.
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

It's a damn shame that Quantum torpedoes have demonstrated inferior firepower to the Defiant's pulse phasers.
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Post by spaceluigi »

Well, it's sad that that's true. But, many people before me constantly say that what it looked like on the movie was not hard enough evidence.

PS: That very reason is why people hate Berman.
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Post by Slartibartfast »

That's because people are morons, and they WANT something to be powerful even if it hasn't been stated as such (hint: UNofficial sources). Quantum torpedoes are just regular (but more powerful) anti-matter torpedoes except in name, maybe with extra added treknobabble for kicks. Just like Photon torpedoes (hint hint: they don't fire "photons" to do damage, a flashlight can fire "photons"). Silly fanboyz like to extrapolate powers to the infinity, saying stuff like "quantum torpedoes destroy the quantum weave of the universe at a local level doing mass destruction! oh my god I just wet myself"
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Post by Slartibartfast »

It's a lame excuse. Stupid people think that because B&B are complete idiots with no regard for continuity or respect for the public, that any retarded fanboy's theory that contradicts them is suddenly valid.
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Post by Darth Gojira »

AAAAAAARRRGGHH!!!! The "name-game" fallacy rears its idiotic head again(As does SL, but I digress...)!!!
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

TM=noncanon technobable!
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