Army chaplain offers baptisms, baths

[Wicked Pilot]

Baptism, along with soap, is a good thing.

[Darth Wong]

Ah, Army clergymen. You know, the Catholic and Jewish Chaplains that I know are very nice people.

There is really nothing that can be done here. This Chaplain has his water that used for Baptisms, and he is now in a position to hold it over the soldiers' heads. Sick, very sick.

Sadly, it's not the worst tactic they'll use. I still remember the opportunistic bragging over how 9/11 brought people back to church.

You know what is interesting, to be a Chaplain one must have a four year degree because Chaplains are officers. So, the Baptist Chaplains in must be the only educated Baptists in the world.

Having a four-year degree doesn't necessarily make you well-educated. It depends on what the degree is in. With Southern Baptist chaplains, I would be shocked if it's anything but theology.

[jegs2]

Miami Herald

Army chaplain offers baptisms, baths

Unfortunately for the chaplain, he probably isn't meeting his intended goal of winning soldiers to the Lord. Many will just want a bath, so his baptisms provide a convenient excuse, and they'll say anything to get clean. Reminds me of when I was in Basic Training in 87. For the first three weeks, we were under "total control," meaning that all of our time was spent under the ever-watchful eyes of vengeful drill sergeants. The only real opportunity for escape was Sunday service at the chapel. Most soldiers went on Sunday, so they didn't have to "GI the barracks," with the rest of the soldiers who didn't wish to attend chapel. Although I was and am a Christian, I disagreed with that policy. After we were off "total control," chapel attendance dropped sharply...

[Darth Wong]

Unfortunately for the chaplain, he probably isn't meeting his intended goal of winning soldiers to the Lord. Many will just want a bath, so his baptisms provide a convenient excuse, and they'll say anything to get clean.

Couldn't agree more. It's easy to mouth words when someone's blackmailing you.

Reminds me of when I was in Basic Training in 87. For the first three weeks, we were under "total control," meaning that all of our time was spent under the ever-watchful eyes of vengeful drill sergeants. The only real opportunity for escape was Sunday service at the chapel. Most soldiers went on Sunday, so they didn't have to "GI the barracks," with the rest of the soldiers who didn't wish to attend chapel. Although I was and am a Christian, I disagreed with that policy. After we were off "total control," chapel attendance dropped sharply...

Were there any other religions or belief or non-belief systems which received this kind of special exemption?

[jegs2]

Were there any other religions or belief or non-belief systems which received this kind of special exemption?

Yes. The Army has a policy in which every soldier must be free to practice the religion of his or her choice, including Wiccan, Satanism (not sure about that one, but it wouldn't surprise me), and whatever else you may or may not have heard of. An aside on that, and the reason many Christians don't want to be chaplains, is that if a soldier requests the right to a particular form of worship, even if it is dead against what that particualar chaplain stands for, he must make accomodations for that soldier.

[Darth Wong]

Yes. The Army has a policy in which every soldier must be free to practice the religion of his or her choice, including Wiccan, Satanism (not sure about that one, but it wouldn't surprise me), and whatever else you may or may not have heard of. An aside on that, and the reason many Christians don't want to be chaplains, is that if a soldier requests the right to a particular form of worship, even if it is dead against what that particualar chaplain stands for, he must make accomodations for that soldier.

Fascinating. So if, hypothetically speaking, a soldier said that he wanted to hold a worship service to praise Satan, the chaplain would have to help him in this endeavour? What would happen to a chaplain who refused?

[jegs2]

Fascinating. So if, hypothetically speaking, a soldier said that he wanted to hold a worship service to praise Satan, the chaplain would have to help him in this endeavour? What would happen to a chaplain who refused?

The soldier could appeal to his commander, who would take the issue to the battalion commander, who would order the chaplain to do his job. I don't think it would go that far -- the chaplain is a commissioned officer who has to follow orders like any other officer. The chaplain would likely talk to the soldier about his religion IOT determine whether or not he was sincere. If the soldier was sincere, then the chaplain would do his job and make accomodations for him or her.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

Fascinating. So if, hypothetically speaking, a soldier said that he wanted to hold a worship service to praise Satan, the chaplain would have to help him in this endeavour? What would happen to a chaplain who refused?

The soldier could appeal to his commander, who would take the issue to the battalion commander, who would order the chaplain to do his job. I don't think it would go that far -- the chaplain is a commissioned officer who has to follow orders like any other officer. The chaplain would likely talk to the soldier about his religion IOT determine whether or not he was sincere. If the soldier was sincere, then the chaplain would do his job and make accomodations for him or her.

Well if that is the case I should start my own religion and register it with the government........ its main sacrement being that a Chaplan has to give me 500 dollars as soon I finish eating the Papa John's pizza "euchrist" he is required to provide. Of course this will be a daily sacrament (at the very least).

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

Oh and a daily sacrament that requires a chaplan to apologize for the irrational, bigoted, ignorant, etc. nature of Christianity.

[jegs2]

...I should start my own religion and register it with the government........ its main sacrement being that a Chaplan has to give me 500 dollars as soon I finish eating the Papa John's pizza "euchrist" he is required to provide. Of course this will be a daily sacrament (at the very least).

Stuff like that has been attempted and shot down in the past. All established and known religions are supported, not self-invented ones -- think there is some sort of percentage involved. I pointed out Wiccan earlier, which is well-established and fairly well known. The "Worship the Holy Golden Lizard of Bob" religion established by Bob in 2002, wouldn't cut it, because you'd be hard pressed to find many soldiers (or any soldier) who ascribe to that religion. The inverse is also true, in that Protestant Christian chaplains are most numerous, because most soldiers in the Army claiming a religion claim to be Protestant Christians.

[Darth Wong]

Stuff like that has been attempted and shot down in the past. All established and known religions are supported, not self-invented ones -- think there is some sort of percentage involved. I pointed out Wiccan earlier, which is well-established and fairly well known. The "Worship the Holy Golden Lizard of Bob" religion established by Bob in 2002, wouldn't cut it, because you'd be hard pressed to find many soldiers (or any soldier) who ascribe to that religion.

Dammit, no Holy Golden Lizard of Bob?

Interestingly enough, the use of popularity as a yardsick means that with hundreds of thousands of adherents on the UK, Canadian, and Australian census, Jedi and Sith should be considered valid religions. I wonder if watching Star Wars or reading Star Wars books could be considered a religious activity.

The inverse is also true, in that Protestant Christian chaplains are most numerous, because most soldiers in the Army claiming a religion claim to be Protestant Christians.

Satanism would automatically be considered a religion then, right? Despite his vilified status, it is beyond question that an enormous number of people believe in Satan.

[jegs2]

Satanism would automatically be considered a religion then, right? Despite his vilified status, it is beyond question that an enormous number of people believe in Satan.

If enough soldiers ascribed to the worship of Satan as a religion, then their would be a demand for either chaplains or "lay-leaders" for that religion. So far as I know, there aren't any true Satan worshippers registered in the Army, although their are a number of Slayer and Danzig fans who like to have pentegrams and what-not in their rooms. What I have seen are Buddhist, Muslim, and Jewish chaplains, and I've heard we have Wiccan and Native American religious lay-leaders.

[Wicked Pilot]

There have been times however when the govenment and other religious assholes have tried to step into the military to fuck over people's rights. A few years ago, a group of Wiccan soldiers at Fort Hood created an "Open Circle" which allowed them to meet together. That shithead congressman Bob Barr (from Georgia of course) attacked the existence of such a group, basically saying that Wicca did not deserve "official recognition" in the military. He even tried to get an amendment put on a bill which would prohibit the practice of Wicca at any DOD facilities. His bill was eventually rejected, but only on procedural grounds.

[Durandal]

Doesn't the mere act of "officially recognizing" a religion violate the establishment clause?

[The Dark]

Satanism would automatically be considered a religion then, right? Despite his vilified status, it is beyond question that an enormous number of people believe in Satan.

If enough soldiers ascribed to the worship of Satan as a religion, then their would be a demand for either chaplains or "lay-leaders" for that religion. So far as I know, there aren't any true Satan worshippers registered in the Army, although their are a number of Slayer and Danzig fans who like to have pentegrams and what-not in their rooms. What I have seen are Buddhist, Muslim, and Jewish chaplains, and I've heard we have Wiccan and Native American religious lay-leaders.

I don't know of any Satanist chaplains, but the Chaplain's Handbook requires the recognition of the Church of Satan as a legitimate religious organization. I would assume this applies to the Temple of Set as well, though I am not entirely sure on this count. I remember the Fort Hood Circle controversy, when the chaplain's office was forced to increase security for those soldiers because of fundamentalist idiots.

And actually, I'm feeling a bit freaked out now, since my birthday is Walpurginsnacht...and birthdays and Walpurginsnacht are the two big festivals within the Church of Satan.

[Frank Hipper]

And actually, I'm feeling a bit freaked out now, since my birthday is Walpurginsnacht...and birthdays and Walpurginsnacht are the two big festivals within the Church of Satan.

Bah! I've read most of the Satanic Bible and The Satanic Witch by Anton LaVey, he was just a horny old bastard who thought that women should walk around in high heels, a fur coat, and nothing else. That way, the supposed witch could gain power by having men ogle her publicly, but it should be obvious what his true intentions were!

[The Dark]

And actually, I'm feeling a bit freaked out now, since my birthday is Walpurginsnacht...and birthdays and Walpurginsnacht are the two big festivals within the Church of Satan.

Bah! I've read most of the Satanic Bible and The Satanic Witch by Anton LaVey, he was just a horny old bastard who thought that women should walk around in high heels, a fur coat, and nothing else. That way, the supposed witch could gain power by having men ogle her publicly, but it should be obvious what his true intentions were!

I actually haven't gotten copies of those yet. I've read some of what Crowley said, but I've heard he's quite different. I really need to get copies of the Quran, the Satanic Bible, any Wiccan documents I can find, and the oldest manuscripts I can find of the Hebrew Bible in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. Of course, it'll still be a couple years before I can read Greek and Hebrew, since I won't start learning them until next semester .

[Darth Wong]

he was just a horny old bastard who thought that women should walk around in high heels, a fur coat, and nothing else.

And that's bad?

[The Dark]

he was just a horny old bastard who thought that women should walk around in high heels, a fur coat, and nothing else.

And that's bad?

I don't know...IMHO, there is something to be said for the subtlety of certain types of lingerie...

[Frank Hipper]

he was just a horny old bastard who thought that women should walk around in high heels, a fur coat, and nothing else.

And that's bad?

Well, if you're a devil worshipin' chickska who thinks she's going to gain spell castin' powers, maybe. But for the the heterosexual male population who enjoys bad girls struttin' aboot in a state of undress, I would say it's a VERY good thing!

[Sebastin]

And actually, I'm feeling a bit freaked out now, since my birthday is Walpurginsnacht...and birthdays and Walpurginsnacht are the two big festivals within the Church of Satan.

I´m a bit surprised that Walpurgisnacht is known outside of germany, especially considering how closely it is connected with the Brocken. How (and where?) it is celebrated by satanists? And what exactly is it´s connection to satanism?

[The Dark]

And actually, I'm feeling a bit freaked out now, since my birthday is Walpurginsnacht...and birthdays and Walpurginsnacht are the two big festivals within the Church of Satan.

I´m a bit surprised that Walpurgisnacht is known outside of germany, especially considering how closely it is connected with the Brocken. How (and where?) it is celebrated by satanists? And what exactly is it´s connection to satanism?

Don't know exactly, but it's the culmination of the Spring Equinox for them. That and Halloween are the big holidays, though Walpurginsnacht is slightly more important since the CoS was founded on April 30, 1966. I'm using an excerpt from the US Army Chaplain's Handbook, as found at http://www.algonet.se/~lottrik/satanism.htm

[Stormbringer]

Doesn't the mere act of "officially recognizing" a religion violate the establishment clause?

Not in the case, I'd imagine. In this case it's a matter of making sure people don't pull crap like BlkbrryTheGreat suggested.