The New Georgia State Flag

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-10 01:36pm

http://www.redandblack.com/vnews/displa ... te=default

Atheists still need not apply.

Depending on how the referendum next March goes, either this or the the Confederate Georgia state flag will become the new one. I frankly dislike them both (the design of the new one doesn't irk, me, the slap in the face to atheists does).

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-04-10 01:44pm

Is that even legal?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-10 01:45pm

neoolong wrote:Is that even legal?

The GA State Constitution mandates the separation of church and state, but I guess nobody gives a shit.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-10 01:55pm

I find it disconceritng that a majority is being denied a right to vote on something that offends a minority. If the voters want the flag with the confederate battle standard then so be it. Before anyone starts in on the swastika, if German people wanted to put the swastika back on their flag I say its the will of the majority, they're a democracy. I'm pretty laissez faire when it comes to these issues. Not to say that I wouldn't be disappointed in them.

I have a problem when a minority's views hold sway over a distinct majority, on issues that don't directly impact that minority like civil rights or issues of real importance. Not on the design of a flag.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-10 01:59pm

You're right, the design of the Georgia state flag will have precisely zero real effect on the lives of both atheists and blacks. That doesn't mean it is acceptable.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-04-10 02:49pm

Hmm....

The "Stars and Bars", the first official Confederate national flag, adopted March 1861, replaced by the "Stainless Banner" (which included the infamous St. Andrew's cross) in May 1863.

And now, the proposed flag of Georgia...

http://media.redandblack.com/vimages/sh ... e-11-1.jpg

There's a REASON we don't post LARGE images inlined. ~Dalton

EDIT: D'oh! Forgot not everyone uses 1024x768 as their resolution. Sorry, big guy.

This flag's got something for anyone, if the people bitching and moaning about the Confederate flag were smart enough to see it. It's even got 13 stars, same as the official Stars and Bars (the last two stars were for Kentucky and Maryland, considered by the Confederate government to be Confederate states under Union occupation). The "In God We Trust" printed on the white stripe is totally unconstitutional. If the Supreme Court didn't let Ohio keep "With God, All Things Are Possible", as its state motto, this damn well violated the Establishment Clause.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-04-10 03:03pm

Looks like the Confederate Flag to me, with extra stuff slapped on...

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-10 03:13pm

jegs2 wrote:Looks like the Confederate Flag to me, with extra stuff slapped on...

Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-04-10 03:23pm

Stravo wrote:I find it disconceritng that a majority is being denied a right to vote on something that offends a minority. If the voters want the flag with the confederate battle standard then so be it. Before anyone starts in on the swastika, if German people wanted to put the swastika back on their flag I say its the will of the majority, they're a democracy. I'm pretty laissez faire when it comes to these issues. Not to say that I wouldn't be disappointed in them.

I have a problem when a minority's views hold sway over a distinct majority, on issues that don't directly impact that minority like civil rights or issues of real importance. Not on the design of a flag.

Ah yes, it's very easy to dismiss the infringements of a minority's rights when you're part of the white, male, Christian majority of the country, isn't it, Stravo? Don't give me this "tyranny of the minority" bullshit; it's a blatant violation of the separation of church and state, and you know it. If a state voted to have, "God is a delusional fantasy for fools" as their state motto, it'd be just as wrong as "In God we trust."

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-10 03:26pm

Stravo is Hispanic, unless I'm mistaken.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-04-10 03:34pm

Durandal wrote: Ah yes, it's very easy to dismiss the infringements of a minority's rights when you're part of the white, male, Christian majority of the country, isn't it, Stravo?

Hey durandal, bite my pimply white ass. I don't know if you were dropped
on your head as a baby, but this violent self-delusional hatred of yourself
has got to fucking STOP.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-10 03:38pm

Stravo IS hispanic. You see race does not define me. Used to making bullshit assumptions there Durandal? I never assumed you were white, in fact I don't know if you are at all. Funny how a certain viewpoint needs to fit into a certain racial group eh? I just happen to love democracy in its purest form possible since my parents fled from a Communist dictatorship. I'm sorry if a phrase that the Supreme Court has ruled as not being an example of governmental support of religion "In God we trust" offends your sensibilties. Its on our fucking currency for god's sake. Does the dollar offend you as well?

And you dragged me into an argument I was not making. If you go back and READ what I wrote I was talking about the Confederate battle flag. At no time did I mention the In God We Trust phrase.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-04-10 03:48pm

Durran Korr wrote:Stravo is Hispanic, unless I'm mistaken.

Oops! Guess it's foot for dinner tonight...

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-10 03:51pm

Hey, I was just pointing out how it's stupid to assume people are of one race or another just because they have views that you associate with that race.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-04-10 03:55pm

Durran Korr wrote:Hey, I was just pointing out how it's stupid to assume people are of one race or another just because they have views that you associate with that race.

I know. You're not the one to whom I'm referring. Someone else (starts with a "D") shall be dining on foot tonight.

Pass the salt, please

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-10 03:56pm

Ah, I see.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-04-10 04:52pm

This is basically like those welcome mats you see in novelty shops that say "GO AWAY!"

Seriously, what's next? Is Mississippi going to come out with a state flag that says, "We hate dem niggers?" That's just plain discouraging, unethical, and uber-republican. There's no justification for mentioning God in any state motto, flag, declaration, anything. It's like that piece of retro propoganda says: "Say it! One nation UNDER GOD! Say you love Jesus! SAY IT!"

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-04-10 04:54pm

MKSheppard wrote:Hey durandal, bite my pimply white ass.

I'm not going anywhere near your face.

I don't know if you were dropped on your head as a baby, but this violent self-delusional hatred of yourself has got to fucking STOP.

You, of all people, have no place informing people of how to best keep their mental health, you fucking right-wing, goose-stepping, gun-toting redneck piece of shit. You want to talk about violent self-loathing? You want to talk about self-confidence problems? Fine, you sniveling little redneck twat. I'm not the one who has to compensate for the lack of a penis by verbally masturbating to the current events in Iraq or prattling on incessently about guns, gun-laws and undermilitarization, or who has to continually live in denial about how the fucking US Army thought he was too fucked up to serve his nation by unendingly yammering about the military and how great it is. I could practically envision you glued to your television set the moment we invaded Iraq, foaming at the mouth and panting in a sick, twisted imitation of an orgasm as you saw rockets hit Baghdad and reporters rattle off war statistics that served as the auditory equivalent of penis-stroking to your ears.

Sorry, I don't need warmongering, gun-obsessed psychopaths telling me what to do. Do something useful to society and go buy a chainsaw, rev it up and shove it into your rectum. Maybe your contribution to the economy by buying the fucking thing will do a little to compensate the world for putting up with a useless waste of space like you. Maybe if your family buys an expensive funeral for your sorry ass, along with a lot of Nazi and Confederate memorabilia to hang around your coffin, you'll be somewhat close to breaking even with society.

Stravo wrote:Stravo IS hispanic. You see race does not define me. Used to making bullshit assumptions there Durandal?

Oh goody for you; you caught me with a nitpick.

I never assumed you were white, in fact I don't know if you are at all. Funny how a certain viewpoint needs to fit into a certain racial group eh?

See the rest of my comment. You're still a part of the male, Christian majority, and it's religion, not race that's being oppressed here. So I incorrectly said you were white. Sorry. Does it affect my argument in the slightest? No.

I just happen to love democracy in its purest form possible since my parents fled from a Communist dictatorship. I'm sorry if a phrase that the Supreme Court has ruled as not being an example of governmental support of religion "In God we trust" offends your sensibilties.

It's not an issue of offending sensibilities. It's an issue of endorsing religious beliefs, which relegates those who don't hold those beliefs to the status of second-class citizens in the eyes of the government because they're not a part of the "preferred religion."

Its on our fucking currency for god's sake. Does the dollar offend you as well?

You're goddamn fucking right it does. It wasn't there originally; it shouldn't be there now.

And you dragged me into an argument I was not making. If you go back and READ what I wrote I was talking about the Confederate battle flag. At no time did I mention the In God We Trust phrase.

And that changes things ... how? Why is it acceptable for the state to endorse a symbol of racism and slavery? This isn't about "violating sensibilities" as you would so love it to be, so you can relegate it to the status of "politically correct" and dismiss it out of hand. It's about the government endorsing symbols of tyranny, religion and racism, which will automatically elevate one group of people over another. You can't have everyone be equal in the eyes of the law if the state endorses "In God We Trust" or the Confederate flag or a swastika or whatever.

So, what does Georgia gain by putting that ridiculous motto on their flag or by putting the Confederate flag on there? What reasons does it have for doing so? Heritage? Bullshit. If your heritage is the subjugation of another race, it isn't worth remembering.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-04-10 05:00pm

Hmmm, with the racial connotations, I'll have to offer disagreement. The state of Georgia does have Confederate heritage, and it would be disingenous to say that all Confederate heritage is synonymous with racism. At least two of my great, great grandfathers fought for the Confederacy, and neither owned slaves. In fact, one of them ran an underground railroad to free slaves. A bastardization of the Confederate Battle flag is what we've seen rednecks and KKK types use, and it has become synonymous with racism over the last one hundred years. It is similar to the battle flag used by the Army of Tennessee. It should be pointed out that the flag Georgia is adopting is not that particular flag.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-10 05:07pm

Well, the thing is, in 1956 the flag was changed to the Confederate battle flag as a deliberate fuck-you to the Civil Rights movement. If they had had the flag for a long time before that it would be one thing, but they didn't. I personally fancy the pre-1956 flag:

Anything is better than that visual abortion that was the flag adopted a few years ago.

And although I have mixed feelings about the Confederate flag, it is not inherently racist; if it is, then so is the American flag (the infamous "100 Percent Americanism" poster of the 1920's KKK had a Klansman waving an American flag, not a Confederate one).

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-04-10 05:07pm

Durandal wrote:You, of all people, have no place informing people of how to best keep their mental health, you fucking right-wing, goose-stepping, gun-toting redneck piece of shit. You want to talk about violent self-loathing? You want to talk about self-confidence problems? Fine, you sniveling little redneck twat. I'm not the one who has to compensate for the lack of a penis by verbally masturbating to the current events in Iraq or prattling on incessently about guns, gun-laws and undermilitarization, or who has to continually live in denial about how the fucking US Army thought he was too fucked up to serve his nation by unendingly yammering about the military and how great it is. I could practically envision you glued to your television set the moment we invaded Iraq, foaming at the mouth and panting in a sick, twisted imitation of an orgasm as you saw rockets hit Baghdad and reporters rattle off war statistics that served as the auditory equivalent of penis-stroking to your ears.

Sorry, I don't need warmongering, gun-obsessed psychopaths telling me what to do. Do something useful to society and go buy a chainsaw, rev it up and shove it into your rectum. Maybe your contribution to the economy by buying the fucking thing will do a little to compensate the world for putting up with a useless waste of space like you. Maybe if your family buys an expensive funeral for your sorry ass, along with a lot of Nazi and Confederate memorabilia to hang around your coffin, you'll be somewhat close to breaking even with society.

A-fucking-MEN!

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-04-10 08:22pm

Seriously, what's next? Is Mississippi going to come out with a state flag that says, "We hate dem niggers?"

I wouldn't that be suprised it that was considered at one point.

As for the topic, I do believe the "In God we trust" on the stripe is pretty ugly. If they want to shove their beliefs down other people's throats in a subtle way, then they should put it on the blue or something. And it is unconstitutional, and the Founding Fathers probably wouldn't have approved, but it's not like anyone's dying in chains because of it or anything.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-04-10 08:31pm

Do you suppose the "In God We Trust" part of the flag was intended to help it pass the referendum or to help it fail?

It certainly seems like a way for lawmakers to flip off the courts but I'm thinking they set up the controversy over this flag on purpose. If the referendum fails because of the statement they keep their old flag longer. If the government is sued over the "In God We Trust" bit they can keep their old flag longer.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-04-11 04:36am

Durandal wrote: or who has to continually live in denial about how the fucking US Army thought he was too fucked up to serve his nation by unendingly yammering about the military and how great it is.

Right then and there, your argument just fell apart like one of Scooter's
arguments.

Want me to pull out my medical files that show that I am 100% deaf, and
that I have metal parts in my body? Those are disqualifiers, you dumb fucking
piece of shit.

But either way, you're not going to listen to that, you just want to mantain
your happy little fantasy that I'm a drooling redneck that can't put 2+2 together.

Durandal wrote: I could practically envision you glued to your television set the moment we invaded Iraq, foaming at the mouth and panting in a sick, twisted imitation of an orgasm as you saw rockets hit Baghdad and reporters rattle off war statistics that served as the auditory equivalent of penis-stroking to your ears.

I suppose you're going to flame William Craig, the author of Enemy at
the Gates now? Because the behavior you describe is exactly what
the then 12-year old William Craig did when he was a teenager in the
Summer of 1942, following the war news from the front from the newspapers,
and every day, correcting the front lines on the map he had hung in his bedroom.

I'm just merely doing the digital 21st century equivalent to what the Factory workers
at the Red October plant did on 22 June, 1941. They hung a giant map up on the
factory floor, to follow what they thought would be the triumphant sweep of the
Red Army into East Prussia and into the heart of the Reich.

Sorry, I don't need warmongering, gun-obsessed psychopaths telling me what to do. Do something useful to society and go buy a chainsaw, rev it up and shove it into your rectum.

Pot calling the kettle black, fucker.

If you think white people are racist oppressors, why don't you do
the black population of the United States a big fucking favor by
injecting a full syringe of air into your vein and ridding the world
of one more white oppressor?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-04-11 05:27am

lol
*shakes head*

I wonder this is kinda silly all in all when everyone is really basically related to everyone else. My "German" has some of Mongolia and of Rom India, in it's mostly Jewish white boy. Not to mention that with my mom's southern background I have some Native american, and enough african in there that my mother is a carrier for Sycle sell anemia...

Little facts I like brining up when some one gets too anal about race issues.

Actually I think is really Ironic is that the production of Star & Bars flags is a majority african owned business that was employing quite a few people until the protesters started harrassing them.