SARS Here To Stay

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-04-11 12:17pm

The main reason its spread in TO is we've got this stupid bitch for the Medical Officer of Toronto.

Says there's no need to worry, and it's nothing but harmless ug.

Nurses and doctors can't even get doos protection when dealing with SARS patients, only cheap masks.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-04-11 12:21pm

Ted wrote:The main reason its spread in TO is we've got this stupid bitch for the Medical Officer of Toronto.

Says there's no need to worry, and it's nothing but harmless ug.

Nurses and doctors can't even get doos protection when dealing with SARS patients, only cheap masks.

Unfortunately, that sounds too much like famous last words.

It's this ignorance that is baffling me, the bug may not be as scary as Ebola or widespread as the Flu just yet, but the blasé attitude shown by some is disturbing.

I guess the WHO, CDC and PHLS are all making up these horrific claims and warnings to try and rival the Iraq war attention.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-04-11 12:22pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I don't want to sound alarmist over this, right now it isn't too bad this SARS, but it's when people here laugh this off as just another bug to disappear within a month.

Their false assumptions are already shot down using simple historical comparisons.

There are too many idiots on SB, you know that AV. Very few even have cursory biology educations, it seems.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-04-11 12:24pm

It's gonna become another major epidemic at the rate it's being dealt with now.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2003-04-11 12:25pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Dalton wrote:My sister's heading to Toronto...as of right now...
Relax. Generally speaking, the fatalities from SARS are people who were old, feeble, and already in hospital for some other condition when they got it. Many people have gotten it, spent some time in hospital, recovered, and gone home already.

I hope it's true. See, Inge and I have been refraining ourselves from rave parties recently, because rave clubs are closed area with horrible air circulation (all you get is aircon), and there's always a helluva lot of people dancing, smoking, and *breathing*. Imagine if there's a SARS-infected people among the ravers....

If I were a DJ, I'll take vacation for few months from now on.

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-04-11 12:58pm

Better to be safe than sorry. Nobody knows just how far this virus would go.

They're trying to isolate it now. Gotta prove Koch's Postulates before they can start on a vaccine.

The Nice Guy

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-04-11 01:06pm

The_Nice_Guy wrote:Better to be safe than sorry. Nobody knows just how far this virus would go.

They're trying to isolate it now. Gotta prove Koch's Postulates before they can start on a vaccine.

The Nice Guy

Koch's postulates have already been proven I believe. They're even working on a simple test now and a vaccine. The test may be used in airports and ports within the next month if completed on time and the vaccine may be around in a year or two. Sadly, this type of thing takes time to understand, it seems to be mainly caused by a mutated Coronavirus which is a common cousin of the Influenza virus. Erasmus University at Rotterdam has grown the virus and shown it to cause similar symptons on animals, infact, I wouldn't be surprised if this very bug was the same one that in 2001 caused a co-infection epidemic amongst our bovine friends (a bacteria and virus worked together to kill many a cow off).

Only now the virus has jumped the species barrier maybe due to some gene transferral between other viri.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2003-04-11 01:16pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Ted wrote:The main reason its spread in TO is we've got this stupid bitch for the Medical Officer of Toronto.

Says there's no need to worry, and it's nothing but harmless ug.

Nurses and doctors can't even get doos protection when dealing with SARS patients, only cheap masks.
Unfortunately, that sounds too much like famouse last words.

It's this ignorance that is baffling me, the bug may not be as scary as Ebola or widespread as the Flu just yet, but the blasé attitude shown by some is disturbing.

I guess the WHO, CDC and PHLS are all making up these horrific claims and warnings to try and rival the Iraq war attention.

The problem with SARS is that the disease itself really isn't that much to write home about. It's a coronavirus that triggers a disease similar in pathology to influenza, except it kills roughly 3% of the people it infects. And those who died tended, in large part, to be patients who would be susceptible to death by disease, due to poor health or pre-existing conditions. The only thing that could make it a threat is how quickly the virus seems capable of spreading.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2003-04-11 01:26pm

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:And those who died tended, in large part, to be patients who would be susceptible to death by disease, due to poor health or pre-existing conditions.

How about drug usage? I told Inge to stop. At least until the epidemic gone. I stop using drugs forawhile.

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-04-11 01:40pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Koch's postulates have already been proven I believe.

Not yet. They have only isolated the virus from the infected so far(or at least they have claimed to do so), but have yet to fufill the 3rd and 4th postulates. Admittedly, the 3rd and 4th postulates are the most difficult to prove, not least because of possible ethical reasons. Will they be trying the virus out on chimps?
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/health ... 29,00.html?

The Nice Guy

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-04-11 01:58pm

The_Nice_Guy wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Koch's postulates have already been proven I believe.
Not yet. They have only isolated the virus from the infected so far(or at least they have claimed to do so), but have yet to fufill the 3rd and 4th postulates. Admittedly, the 3rd and 4th postulates are the most difficult to prove, not least because of possible ethical reasons. Will they be trying the virus out on chimps?
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/health ... 29,00.html?

The Nice Guy

They have already fulfilled 3 and 4 from my source (New Scientist #2390). They isolated the pathogen (Coronavirus in majority of cases, though some have found Chlamydia and a Paramyxovirus), they have grown it in a media, they have used it on lab test animals and found that it is the same virus from the animal results that is in humans causing the disease.

This was, as stated, all done at Erasmus University in Rotterdam. The CDC sent the samples from Urbani to DeRisi of the University of California and they processed the results on a 1500 sequence microarray.

The CDC may be good, but they shouldn't be touted as the best, though they agree that the prime suspect is a Coronavirus that has likely jumped species and mutated.

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-04-11 02:31pm

The CDC, good?

SARS was an excellent example of how a virus should be identified, isolated, and conclusively shown to be the causal agent.

Compared to say, AIDS/HIV.

The Nice Guy

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-04-11 02:40pm

The_Nice_Guy wrote:The CDC, good?

SARS was an excellent example of how a virus should be identified, isolated, and conclusively shown to be the causal agent.

Compared to say, AIDS/HIV.

The Nice Guy

Well we all know about the AIDS/HIV problems, but I'm not opening that can of worms here.

Though just imagine what will happen when this disease gets into the AIDS populace who have an already compromised immune system. Once this hits Africa (it's already in Israel it seems) then a whole load of shit is going to hit the fan.

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-04-11 04:06pm

Oh yeah. SARS seems to be especially fatal to those with already weakened immune systems. The level of healthcare in developed nations that has so far managed to keep the fatality rate low does not apply to Africa.

I fully expect the fatality rate in Africa to be higher. Way higher.

The Nice Guy

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-04-11 06:01pm

Africa and the poorer parts of Asia will remain reservoirs of this virus for years to come no doubt. The major problems arise when this already lethal bug gets a higher lethality rating by adapting to us more so.

When it becomes as contagious as Flu and as lethal as Ebola, then we have problems.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-04-11 11:26pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:When it becomes as contagious as Flu and as lethal as Ebola, then we have problems.

Assuming it will develop 90 +% universal mortality rate among infectees is a tad alarmist and premature methinks.

This is bad, but I don't see it being one of those supervirus bioweapons wankfests thought up by Hollywood.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-04-12 01:26pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:When it becomes as contagious as Flu and as lethal as Ebola, then we have problems.
Assuming it will develop 90 +% universal mortality rate among infectees is a tad alarmist and premature methinks.

This is bad, but I don't see it being one of those supervirus bioweapons wankfests thought up by Hollywood.

Hollywood butchers science to make way for entertainment just as much with bio as with physics, chemistry, geology etc.

Outbreak was a good film, but a disease like that would be our worst nightmare in reality, there was no way in hell it would spread that fast though and as to how they made so much vaccine in such a short time, well, it bares no thinking.

But remember, anyone with a basic grasp of economics or plain maths will know that small percentages of large sums will yield numbers still worthy of noting the the big book of history or the Guinness book.

I'm expecting this thing to stay but at a casual level, it may not mutate and become a deus ex machina we all fear and even if it did, I'm not worried, just interested.

Having said that, I go back to uni in two weeks and Lancaster has a shitload of Asian students as well as US and Canadians. They left Uni with notices about problems with the Iraq war when going home, they now come back with warnings about a killer virus. Things could change very soon.