Dahak versus Empire

[Soulman]

Dahak (an Urtu class planetoid from Webers books) is deposited near a remote Rebel base just before A New Hope. What happens?

[His Divine Shadow]

Dahak helps rebels?

Ofcourse the Rebels also help Dahak, I mean SW got some tech that Dahak would want too.

[Captain Cyran]

ouch...i can only imagine Dahak could do to the imperials. Not to mention the engineering he can do to make the rebels stronger, faster, etc. Plus he can build ships of his own. The Empire would be grieviously harmed at the least and completely destroyed at the most.

I loved those books.

[Morat]

Why not just pit the Empire against God and be done with it?

[Renewed_Valour1]

Why not just pit the Empire against God and be done with it?

I thought God was taken out by a Bird of Prey.....

[Sokar]

Out of curiosity are we talking about the 4th Imperium Dahak or the 4th Empire version ? Eiether way the Empire is about to get hosed its just a mater of severity....I can just see ISD's crumpling under gravatonic hyper missile hits or being burned to a cinder by 500 mega-ton antimatter warheads....*cackles insanely*

I can just see an Imperial commander beaming with pride at a new shiny Death Star (which would be the only thing that MIGHT have even a chance aginst an Utu-class battleplanetoid)only to crumple in horror as a collapses inward on itself under a salvoe of thoes ever so wonderful hyper-missiles:-)

I won't even go into what would happen to Stormtroopers vrs. Imperial Marines with their biotechnics.....Plus I don't care how disciplined they are , I would run at the first use of thoes hideous warp grenades or Warp rifles that they found at Birhat.

[Gil Hamilton]

Horrible mismatch. Nothing the Empire has can crack Dahak's shield except maybe the Death Star and once he gets his hands on a hyperdrive, to quote Mace Windu, "This parties over."

[Captain Cyran]

For those of you who haven't read the books and have not posted for this reason let me give you an example of Imperial marines with biotechnics. The daughter of the emperor was stranded with a bunch of her friends and siblings on a world which had abouot 19th century weapons. She took an 80 gram Lead bullet to the head and not only survived but the only damage was that she couldn't see through one of her eyes, and this damage could be repared after she got back home.

I won't even get into the power of Dahak or any of the other worldships (in which there are far over 1,000...i think the number was somewhere around 42,000)

[consequences]

first off, Galactic Empire hyperdrive is going to have the same speed advantage over the fourth empire as it has over star trek warp drive, I'm not absolutely certain of the numbers, but the max speed of fourth empire hyperdrive given in armageddon inheritance was only about 2400c. Also, on no occasion has a planetoid warship put out the firepower inherent in the death star's superlaser. The true difficulty in judging this lies in the lack of hard energy figures from david weber's trilogy, we have no idea what the energy delivery of their armament is, or how many shots would be necessary to overload an imperator class star destoyer's shields. The only hard figure we have is the 10000 megaton antimatter yield from the achuultani missiles, which was described as at least as large as anything earth's defenders had. This is somewhat less than helpful, given that earth was only defended by parasite warships, and the defenses it was able to produce, and we can probably assume that a planetoid warship could be carrying heavier warheads.

Another major difficulty in determining a victor is the exact interaction between hyper missiles and imperial shields. If the shields can stop warheads from just appearing in the middle of the ship, then the imperial forces have a signifigantly greater chance. If not, then they are going to be screwed until they can develop a countermeasure. In this case, the empire will have much more research time than is available in any of the previous arguments, because dahak is going to require something like a hundred years just to cross the star wars galaxy one way without stopping.

Tactically, any imperial victory is going to depend on rapidly hyperspace jumping into their own range of the planetoid, before the obscene range of dahak's hyper missiles rip them apart, and the effects of the gravitonic warheads make any sort of reliable hyper jumping impossible.

Oh, and if Centerpoint station is available, and online, and dahak stays visible in the same place for more than an hour or two, he is going to be seriously hurting. It is also possible that the death star's superlaser would be able to eliminate a planetoid in one shot, especially at full power.

The assumption that dahak would side with the rebels is very interesting, preuming he cold even find them, and that they did not immediately attack him, " It's huge, it can only be the emporer's latest superweapon, fire everything we have!!" Dahak is the product of an authoritarian militaristic government, and as such may have more in common with the empire than with the rebels. A lot of this depends on what stage of his development as an individual has been reached. If he is transported to the star wars galaxy without a crew before or soon after the mutiny, he is likely to aid the established human government, at least in regards to preparing for an achuultani incursion or similar threat.

[XaLEv]

This is Dahak's 4th Imperium Utu-class hull. That means he will only have an Enchanach drive, limited to a maximum of 720 c. He also has an effectively inertialess sublight drive, with a maximum speed of .52 c.

There is no reason to believe that Imperial shields will stop Dahak's hypermissiles. To the best of my knowledge, their shields have never been stated to extend into hyperspace, or any other dimensions for that matter. Even if they did extend into hyperspace, Dahakverse hyperspace and SW hyperspace are not the same thing. SW hyperspace looks like a shifting blue-white 'cloudiness'. Dahakverse hyperspace looks like a grey nothingness, and it is said that viewing it causes vertigo and nausea, with prolonged viewing capable of causing madness. As far as I know, SW shields have never been stated to be capable of blocking gravity. A single gravitonic warhead should be able to destroy any Imperial ship, even if mounted on a sublight missile.

Then there are his gravitonic disruptors, mounted on his surface. They tear apart their targets at the molecular level, have a range of between 5,000 km and one lightsecond against a small lifeboat, and are said to be capable of easily destroying an 80,000 ton 4th Imperium sublight battleship.

In The Armageddon Inheritance, Dahak's shields were capable of surviving simultaneous detonation of several million 10 Gt AM warheads.

[His Divine Shadow]

SW shields do block gravity, they do so in the NJO, but it's not very efficient and quickly strips the shields of their power, this is on fighters, the solution is to extend the interia field outside the shields, wich works very well in stopping the Vongs gravitic attacks.

[Sokar]

Ok , I can see the use of the ISD's grav field to slow down gravitic disruptor shots , but there is still no defense in the SW universe from Dahaks missile weapons. The gravitonic warhead mounted in many of these missiles could crumple a 20k long Achultanni warship in one hit. Gravitonic warheads are literaly a blackhole generator, alibet one that only lasts for pico seconds. A salvo of only 16 gravitonic warheads was enough to shatter and completly annihilate the moon Iapetus(Which the Achultanni were about to drop on Earth in a final bid to destroy human civilization)The Empire stands no chance aginst that kind of technology much less if Dhak were able to set up a functioning Imperial industrial base. At the height of the Imperiums power they fielded almost a million battleplantoids of varying type. Dahak is no one shot super-weapon like the Death Star , but a mid-range ship of the line, one of thousands. Hell the personal demense of the Emperor of the 4th Empire, a single planet, was capable of supplying over 90 battle planetoids and under the reign of the 4th Empire they constructed a shield generator system that enclosed the entire innner system of their capital world , not just one planet , bur a shield sphere 40 light mintes across !!!! There is no way the Empire could stand aginst that kind of power.

[His Divine Shadow]

Yeah, the imps are definitly outmatched, the only thing that could stop Dahak is Centerpoint station.

[consequences]

Also the galaxy gun could potentially deatroy dahak. For that matter, the emporer could simply reach across the galaxy and hit Dahak's off button, or create a planet level force storm inside his hull. Where exactly does Dahak appear? Appearing over Coruscant results in a signifigantly different campaign than showing up next to tatooine. Personally, I would rather see Dahak wipe the floor with the Yuuzhan Vong.

[Captain Cyran]

Also the galaxy gun could potentially deatroy dahak. For that matter, the emporer could simply reach across the galaxy and hit Dahak's off button, or create a planet level force storm inside his hull. Where exactly does Dahak appear? Appearing over Coruscant results in a signifigantly different campaign than showing up next to tatooine. Personally, I would rather see Dahak wipe the floor with the Yuuzhan Vong.

The Galaxy Gun cannot hit a target that is not stationary. I don't think there IS an off button (ok way to turn it off not exactly a button) and if I remember the books, in the first one Dahak was turned off and he turned himself back on. As for the storm, please....I'm not even gonna get into that.

[Mr Bean]

So we fall back on the old Sun-Crusher Wins aurgment
Oh and a logic flaw

The Galaxy Gun cannot hit a target that is not stationary

Hint to you
Planets are not Stationary

[Sokar]

Oh for the love of........First off , no vessel just has an off button....Hell an Imperial planetoid dosent even have physical controls as 99% of everthing is handled through the biotechnic link between Comp Cent and the ships crew.
In the books Dahak was out of service for milennia , but due not to being "turned off" but due to a sabotage sub-routine that Fleet Captain Anu had installed as a back up plan incase it became obvious that they would be unable to take Command One during the mutiny. Dahak was able to stop this sabotage, but not before it had burned out most of his primary fusion cores. Dahak had to go off line while his automated repair systems steadily repaired his power systems and allowed him to fully power back up. He also had to divert power to fuel his sensors and weapons inorder to guard aginst the return of Anu and carry out his Alpha Priority programming to supress the mutiny, all of this slowed his recovery.
The Galaxy Gun could probably do signifigant damage to a battleplanetoid as long as it is not in flight in n-space or under Enchanach drive(a type of non-hyperspace supralight, far slower than Hyper , but does not create the tell tale hyper foot print at the point where you fleet will emerge from a hypertransit) But for an accurate shot the position would have to be plotted in advance and would only stay currnet as long as the planetiod remains in the same position. The Galaxy Gun's normal targets are planets in orbit around a star and while they do "move" and hence are not a stationary target , they move in predictable known patterns.

[Captain Cyran]

So we fall back on the old Sun-Crusher Wins aurgment
Oh and a logic flaw

The Galaxy Gun cannot hit a target that is not stationary

Hint to you
Planets are not Stationary

They are more stationary then Dahak would be. What he was suggesting is that the Galaxy gun could peg Dahak from halfway across the galaxy.

[Captain Cyran]

So we fall back on the old Sun-Crusher Wins aurgment
Oh and a logic flaw

The Galaxy Gun cannot hit a target that is not stationary

Hint to you
Planets are not Stationary

Planets move very very little in a matter of hours. What he was suggesting is that the Galaxy gun could peg Dahak from halfway across the galaxy.

[HRogge]

the best way to counter the GG missile for Dahak would be just to dodge it... Dahak is a lot more agile than any spacecraft in the SW universe...

[Crayz9000]

Yeah, the imps are definitly outmatched, the only thing that could stop Dahak is Centerpoint station.

Thank goodness this isn't the entire 4th Imperium vs. the Galactic Empire.

[Eleas]

"Planets move very very little in a matter of hours. What he was suggesting is that the Galaxy gun could peg Dahak from halfway across the galaxy."

The Galaxy Gun took out a carrier craft in Empire's End. I dunno it it's good enough to hit Dahak, tho.

[HRogge]

The Galaxy Gun took out a carrier craft in Empire's End. I dunno it it's good enough to hit Dahak, tho.

Dahak has a maximum speed of 0.6 c and an acceleration higher than a proton torpedo. The galaxy gun would never hit him...

[Eleas]

"Dahak has a maximum speed of 0.6 c and an acceleration higher than a proton torpedo. The galaxy gun would never hit him..."

I think it's more the question of whether Dahak would choose to employ evasive maneuvers. Is that their common doctrine, or do they just trade blows while standing still á la Borg cubes?

[Stormbringer]

I think it's more the question of whether Dahak would choose to employ evasive maneuvers. Is that their common doctrine, or do they just trade blows while standing still á la Borg cubes?

They manuver. The 4th Imperium knows how to fight for god's sake, they aren't brain dead borg. They might hesitate to fire up the FTL drive in an inhabitated system; it trashes the system rather thouroughly. And most likely a GG missile would simply splatter over a planetoid's shields.

And the rebels would win within year or two. Nothing the Empire has can stand up to a planetoid. Once it's got Wars-type hyperdrive (there's plenty of room) it will be nothing less than absolutley decisive.