Are all engineering schools as shafty as Georgia Tech?

[Nathan F]

THis honestly sounds like the engineering program at UT...

[SpacedTeddyBear]

I'll buy that explanation. My engineering classmates were 90% men, 10% women, but luckily, there was the rich resource of the Arts students.

And is that how you met your wife?

Anyways, just to input my two cents......... I think schools purposely make engineering courses harder in order to weed out the stupid people who design bridges that collapses under the load of rush hour traffic.

[The Dark]

The tough grading sounds like the religion program at my school. We have never (to the best of my knowledge) had a religion major graduate with a 4.0 in the last 118 years. We may have one do it this year, but there's a debate as to whether he counts since he's a returnee (getting a second BA) and only has to take the religion courses. I'm already out, since I have a 3.937 (darn Basic Christian Beliefs class...at least I didn't fail like some of my friends).

I just wish we still had our 44th major so I could do religion and physics rather than religion and economics. School couldn't afford to support a major with only three students, though.

[Trytostaydead]

The tough grading sounds like the religion program at my school. We have never (to the best of my knowledge) had a religion major graduate with a 4.0 in the last 118 years. We may have one do it this year, but there's a debate as to whether he counts since he's a returnee (getting a second BA) and only has to take the religion courses. I'm already out, since I have a 3.937 (darn Basic Christian Beliefs class...at least I didn't fail like some of my friends).

I just wish we still had our 44th major so I could do religion and physics rather than religion and economics. School couldn't afford to support a major with only three students, though.

Once again, I hate you humanities

One of my English-major friends today told me "Eh, I have a 3.6 .. but that's because I don't study."

[Nathan F]

Damn humanities as a major to the firey pit....

[Darth Wong]

Damn humanities as a major to the firey pit....

Now now Nathan, let's not be too harsh. We both know that humanities studies are a perfectly good destination for people who can't handle real work

[Joe]

Psychology is the worst culprit.

[Trytostaydead]

Psychology is the worst culprit.

I have respect for psychology as a BS.. they have to take concurrent classes with the neuro majors.

[Zoink]

I had one course (ThermoII) where the teacher asked brutal questions. He was a good teacher though and had all sorts of interesting stories to tell (he was Gerald Bull's assistant, the guy assassinated for making the super gun). The midterm/final exam was marked out of 140, with 100=A+, the class average was still a B.

[Durandal]

Psychology is the worst culprit.

I have respect for psychology as a BS.. they have to take concurrent classes with the neuro majors.

By all indications, psychology is glorified philosophy.

[seanrobertson]

Damn humanities as a major to the firey pit....

Now now Nathan, let's not be too harsh. We both know that humanities studies are a perfectly good destination for people who can't handle real work

*nervous cough*

[Ted]

Damn humanities as a major to the firey pit....

Now now Nathan, let's not be too harsh. We both know that humanities studies are a perfectly good destination for people who can't handle real work

Mike, remember what your mother told you?

Well, what did she tell you?

Humanities can be very hard at times, but it can also be incredibly easy.

Engineering can be very eay for some people too, very hard for the most.

And that iron ring was a CANADIAN IDEA!

[Graeme Dice]

I'm sure there are other reasons for peoples' unhappiness, but a hard-assed abusive attitude toward the engineers is standard fare at many schools. I still remember "hell week" in second year, when they made us write six three-hour final exams in six consecutive days, and each exam was worth 100% of the mark in that course. Many burned out. Some failed. And some passed but the stress was so great that they quit the program, vowing never to return.

I can do one better than that. We had five three hour finals in three days. Two the first, two the second, and one the morning of the third.

That's why you take a certain pride when you receive your iron ring; you and your compatriots feel like survivors, not just graduates.

I know I'm glad to have one.

[The Dark]

Psychology is the worst culprit.

I have respect for psychology as a BS.. they have to take concurrent classes with the neuro majors.

By all indications, psychology is glorified philosophy.

And philosophy is the basis for science, as it assumes a metaphysics of naturalism . Besides, without philosophy, there is no logic, which is the basis for rational thought. And I personally wouldn't want science running around without proper ethics guiding what is and is not done (eugenics, anyone?). *shrug* Not all philosophy is useless.

And neuropsychology is rather well grounded in "hard" science, from what I've heard the neuropsych on staff here talk about. High level bio stuff with a look at how it influences human behavior.

And on exams: I have five two-hour exams in one day next semester. Doctrine of God, Microeconomics, Macroeconomic Theory, Hellenistic Greek, and Ancient Hebrew.

And Try: like I said, we've never had a 4.0 in over a century. In fact, they're forbidding freshmen to take ANY religion courses because roughly a quarter of them flunk the lowest general religion courses we offer, which are general overviews of the Bible within a historical context (we drive fundies nuts by pointing out what couldn't possibly have happened ). We may not crunch numbers like the engineers or physicists, but the 35 of us are fairly well respected due to how difficult our professors are (we're regarded as one of the top three most difficult majors on campus; biology and music education are up there because of difficulty of the first and sheer number of hours [roughly 21 per semester] for the second). *shrug* I'll agree engineering is probably harder for most people, since we aren't trained to think like engineers. However, some of the most competent engineers I know (most of whom work with my father) aren't able to comprehend things I easily grasp from my courses, because they likewise aren't trained in them. It all depends on training and inclination as to what will be easy and what will be difficult. Making an objective comparison between the two is, IMHO, difficult to impossible.

[Illuminatus Primus]

They can't seem to fathom why GT is ranked the 2nd most unhappy campus in America.

Hell, I can tell you that. 70% men, 30% women.

I'll buy that explanation. My engineering classmates were 90% men, 10% women, but luckily, there was the rich resource of the Arts students.

You get used to this types: my girlfriend thinks drama is more important than the sciences. Needless to say I turn to sex when this subject rears its ugly head.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Tech mentality: We are the cream of the crop in engineering schools, therefore we must make an extra effort to make our courses as difficult and as muderous as possible, in order to maintain our reputation.


Tech: The average GPA of tech is 2.5, this speaks highly of us, because it shows that we have so high standards that our ultra bright students with 1300 SATs can only make a 2.5 at this school.

MJ: Since when is putting students through Hell, indicitive of high standards.

It demonstrates that one's students can perform well under high-stress, high-demand environments. Places where one typically employs engineering students tend to be fairly demanding of their employees. And it still doesn't stop the hiring companies from only seriously looking at the top 20% - 30% of graduating engineering students.

Tech: The difficulty of the SAT has decreased, therefore we must increase the difficulty of our courses to compensate.

MJ: What? By what logic did you arrive at this.

Well, the typical American high-school student certainly hasn't gotten that much brighter. And college-entrance exams tend to be, by and large, something of a joke, All that a good SAT score really proves nowadays is that the student holding the score is really good at taking SATs.

What this means is that one is confronted with a veritable zoo of different types of engineering freshmen. I've taught at that level, so I speak from some experience here.
Wat one has when confronted with a class of freshmen is the following:

A) The kids who are there because their parents forced them to be there.
B) The kids who are just there because the state has some sort of free schooling program, so they figure they should get some "hard" courses under their belts before the free money runs out and they're forced to enter the working world.
C) The students who didn't do their homework beforehand, so they don't have a clue about the horrible fate to befall them.
D) The students who actually want to be there, but they lack the acumen to actually make it. (They really want to be engineers when they probably ought to have been accountants. These types really do exist.)
E) The students who want to be there, but think the whole thing is a joke, and thus refuse to take it seriously. (The nasty subset of C.)
F) The students who actually want to be there and actually have a clue. These ones are the ones you want. Too bad they're so rare.

That's why engineering schools tend to see the need for hellish weeder courses. All the idiots in categories A - E (And some 'E's can be reformed) are good for is their money. But it doesn't do the engineering school a whit of good if it churns out boxes of rocks. Doesn't make them seem 'rigorous' and capable of producing students with the intellectual vigor necessary to be engineers. So the more 'deadweight' they can weed out before the students make it onto the core engineering cirriculum, the better.


Tech: The average GPA has risen to 2.8. Grade inflation is occuring, thus we must get the average GPA back down to 2.5 where it belongs. ALL professors are REQUIRED to have a standard bell shaped grade distribution in all thier classes, so that order may be returned to the world.

MJ: Artificially forcing grades to follow some stupid curve is just as bad as grade inflation. And how is an increase from 2.5 to 2.8 grade inflation? Could it just be that the students are <gasp> smarter? Naw....


GT is one of the best engineering schools in existance, but it being located in that trashy state of Georgia has got to have some effect on the administration here. They can't seem to fathom why GT is ranked the 2nd most unhappy campus in America.[/quote]

[HemlockGrey]

Interestingly enough, today at dinner my father, a history professor at Villanova University, was complaining about the amount of hand-holding and coddling he has to do with students who miss exams or class for one reason or another. It's gotten to the point where, if any of the professors are told that by a student that a relative is dying or dead so they'll have to miss an exam, the secretary calls up the student's family to offer the department's condolences.

Nine times out of ten, the deceased answers the phone. Of course, my father also takes great relish in pressing that large red button labeled 'F', so take that however you will.

[Lord MJ]

I still fail to see how lowering SAT standards warrants increasing the difficulty of courses.


If dumber students are getting in, then the fact that they aren't qualified will show in thier scores and GPA, regardless of whether the difficulty of the courses is increased.

Why then make it even more difficult for the qualified students that make it in?

[Lord MJ]

Also it seems that Tech administration is mandating that non-engineering courses such as history, and languages maintain the same class average of 2.5 that the engineering courses must maintain.