Brits can't help themselves...

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MKSheppard
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Brits can't help themselves...

Post by MKSheppard »

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/100/wor ... _ou:.shtml
Hoping to restore some degree of order to the southern city of Basra, British troops Thursday asked residents to turn in their guns no questions asked.

''If we want to give the new Iraq a chance, these weapons have to be taken out of circulation,'' said Capt. Cliff Dare of 3 Commando Brigade Engineer Group.
:roll:

Um, yeah, right Sure. :roll:

Why don't you just fucking SHOOT the looters like you did those
Bank Robbers, you numbnut brits?

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030412-2433256.htm

British kill five looters in Basra

Paul Martin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES Published April 12, 2003

KUWAIT CITY — British forces in Basra fatally shot five looters as they tried to rob a bank, an action that has helped reduce the wave of looting since the city fell less than a week ago.

The bank robbers had first opened fire on a patrol from the Royal
Scots Dragoon Guards close to the now stripped-bare Sheraton Hotel, wounding one of the guardsmen, a British forces spokesman said.

"We returned fire, killed five and arrested the rest," said Lt. Simon Hill, who is himself a Dragoon guardsman.

He denied that the aim of the encounter had been to teach looters a lesson.

"This action was within our rules of engagement," he said. "We do not shoot unless attacked. We do not wish to replace one repressive regime with another."

But he added: "This was not an attempt to convey a message. If it is a byproduct of that, so be it."

Since capturing the city after more than two weeks of pressure that included psychological warfare and in-and-out raids plus bombing, the British were among the first coalition troops to face the wave of looting that has since swept other cities where Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's forces have been driven out.

Air Marshal Brian Burridge, the most senior British officer in the coalition, explained the policy has allowed the locals to "let off steam," but also made it clear that the situation will be brought under control quickly.

British forces, numbering only 2,000 troops in a city of 1.3 million people, have begun switching some of their combat troops to policing duties.

But their main aim is to piece together some form of police force by coaxing former policemen to come out of hiding and start work again.

Most of the Iraqi police appear too afraid of potential revenge or being seen as lackeys of the ousted regime.

The British are also trying to assemble a local leadership council, but it is slow going.

"We've got to get the local people to take some responsibility for themselves," Col. Chris Vernon told The Washington Times after visiting the city. "We've got to resuscitate the local police forces where we can find them."

The colonel pointed out that British forces had already quelled virtually all unrest in the nearby city of Al Zubayr, population 250,000, which he said had been "pretty lawless" when first captured 10 days ago.

He acknowledged that the British forces in Basra, like the Americans in other parts, had "missed a few tricks" by not focusing sufficiently on protecting hospitals.
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Re: Brits can't help themselves...

Post by Darth PhysBod »

MKSheppard wrote:http://www.boston.com/dailynews/100/wor ... _ou:.shtml
Hoping to restore some degree of order to the southern city of Basra, British troops Thursday asked residents to turn in their guns no questions asked.

''If we want to give the new Iraq a chance, these weapons have to be taken out of circulation,'' said Capt. Cliff Dare of 3 Commando Brigade Engineer Group.
:roll:

Um, yeah, right Sure. :roll:

Why don't you just fucking SHOOT the looters like you did those
Bank Robbers, you numbnut brits?
:roll:
What is your problem?
"WAAAAA the Brits didnt blow Basra to hell storming it" -Basra falls with 2 British casualties....

"WAAAA the Brits want to take guns off Iraqis" -After a soldier is shot in stomach by looters no less.....
Gee would you want guns on the street where the could be used against US troops? Oh yeah and great one with the randomly shooting looters. Pull the trigger and end up hauled before the ICC for war crimes :roll:

Your just as bad as those armchair generals in the US "WAAA why did'nt Rumsfeld/franks do that?, look the operations bogged down!" -Baghdad falls shortly after...

Worse, you seem to have no fucking respect for allies contributing over a third of their combat power to the operation and having 31 fatalities :x
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Post by Crown »

British police don't carry guns, and yet they seem to maintain order fairly well... I don't understand what is wrong with the Brits asking the Iraqi's to surrender their weapons Shep. Why don't you enlighten me.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Crown wrote:British police don't carry guns, and yet they seem to maintain order fairly well...
:roll:

As evidenced by their rising crime rate, increasing gangland shootings, and
more and more armed police :roll:
I don't understand what is wrong with the Brits asking the Iraqi's to surrender their weapons Shep. Why don't you enlighten me.
Many moons ago, when we were "peacekeeping" in Bosnia, the policy was
flipped around - the US peacekeeping contigent demanded that the civilians
all give up their arms, while the british and other contigents were more than
happy to let live as long as nobody was shooting at them.

Guess which group of people who were being "protected" got massacred
shortly thereafter by their neighbors?
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Re: Brits can't help themselves...

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Evil S'tan wrote: "WAAAA the Brits want to take guns off Iraqis" -After a soldier is shot in stomach by looters no less.....

Gee would you want guns on the street where the could be used against US troops? Oh yeah and great one with the randomly shooting looters. Pull the trigger and end up hauled before the ICC for war crimes :roll:
:roll: Actually, looting substantially dropped off after you brits shot those
five looters in Basra, so it works.

And yes, US troops have been shot by AK47 weilding nuts, but the
AK47 weilding nuts die messily and promptly, so that's good enough
for me.
Worse, you seem to have no fucking respect for allies contributing over a third of their combat power to the operation and having 31 fatalities :x
31 Fatalities taking one city in Iraq, compared to 79 to take
the Capital city, and the majority of the country of Iraq. I wonder
who has the lower fatality rate, statistically speaking.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Re: Brits can't help themselves...

Post by RadiO »

MKSheppard wrote: 31 Fatalities taking one city in Iraq, compared to 79 to take
the Capital city, and the majority of the country of Iraq. I wonder
who has the lower fatality rate, statistically speaking.
Whoa, you're right. I suppose the British Army should have created regiments and equipment out of thin air, so it could have played as big a part in taking Iraq as the US. Who knows, maybe then the casualties would be proportional. :roll:
All due respect, man, but your current downer on the UK contribution would be easier to swallow if you hadn't spent the first week of the war continually singing the praises of the British.
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Re: Brits can't help themselves...

Post by Darth Wong »

MKSheppard wrote:31 Fatalities taking one city in Iraq, compared to 79 to take the Capital city, and the majority of the country of Iraq. I wonder who has the lower fatality rate, statistically speaking.
If you're going to bash the Brits for being incompetent and taking so many casualties, maybe you would do well to recognize that a large fraction of their casualties were from American friendly fire.
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Re: Brits can't help themselves...

Post by Darth PhysBod »

MKSheppard wrote:
:roll: Actually, looting substantially dropped off after you brits shot those
five looters in Basra, so it works.

And yes, US troops have been shot by AK47 weilding nuts, but the
AK47 weilding nuts die messily and promptly, so that's good enough
for me.
Looters shot in SELF DEFENCE. If the troops shot looters, just for being looters, they could end up hauled before the ICC for war crimes.
MKSheppard wrote: 31 Fatalities taking one city in Iraq, compared to 79 to take
the Capital city, and the majority of the country of Iraq. I wonder
who has the lower fatality rate, statistically speaking.
Total and utter Bullshit. Firstly consider Basra is Iraq's second largest city (~1.3 million) and was only part of the Brits area of operations (ALL of the southern oilfields, Al Faw, Umm Qasr).

Killed in action:

3 soldiers KIA in the operation to take Basra on the 6th.
1 KIA in an ambush on a river patrol at Al Faw
2 KIA at Al Zubayr
2 killed near Basra when vehicle attacked (presumably the ones they arent sure about being KIA or killed as prisoners)

'Friendly fire':

2 to blue-on-blue between two Challengers
2 Blue-on-blue between GR4 and Patriot battery
1 Blue-on-blue between A10 and a Scimiter

Accidents:

14 killed in helicopter accidents (8 in a USMC CH-46, 6 in two Sea-kings)
1 Road accident in Kuwait
1 Overturned armoured vehicle
1 Explosive ordnance disposal operation

1 Natural causes

Thankfully UK forces are well respeted for their experiance and profesionalism by their US couterparts, unlike arm-chair generals like yourself :roll:
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Re: Brits can't help themselves...

Post by MKSheppard »

RadiO wrote: Whoa, you're right. I suppose the British Army should have created regiments and equipment out of thin air, so it could have played as big a part in taking Iraq as the US. Who knows, maybe then the casualties would be proportional. :roll:
:roll:

Out of 91,000 troops that participated in Iraqi Freedom, over
20,000 were British troops, or about 21%. Not an altogether
insignificant amount. And you had pretty much the only other
heavy division in theatre (other one was US 3rd Infantry Div)
All due respect, man, but your current downer on the UK contribution would be easier to swallow if you hadn't spent the first week of the war continually singing the praises of the British.
That was before they stopped at Basra and spent the better part of
two weeks tieing up over 21,000 troops sitting around one city and
making occasional raids.
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"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Post by MKSheppard »

Some concessions towards the brits though:

Their political situation wasn't that great at home concerning
Tony Blair's chances of staying in power, so I can see him
making sure the British forces aren't heavily enaged.

And making your ally do all the heavy lifting is a valid,
if slightly repugnant military tactic, as evidenced by
a popular joke in British Army messes during 1942:

Q: What is Happiness?

A: Happiness is 3 million dead Germans floating
down the Volga, each Fritz resting on a raft of
4 dead Ivans.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Post by SirNitram »

MKSheppard wrote:Some concessions towards the brits though:

Their political situation wasn't that great at home concerning
Tony Blair's chances of staying in power, so I can see him
making sure the British forces aren't heavily enaged.

And making your ally do all the heavy lifting is a valid,
if slightly repugnant military tactic, as evidenced by
a popular joke in British Army messes during 1942:

Q: What is Happiness?

A: Happiness is 3 million dead Germans floating
down the Volga, each Fritz resting on a raft of
4 dead Ivans.
Making your allies do the heavy lifting. That's why our boys grabbing up the southern oil fields, Umm Qsar, and Basra by ourselves, right?
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Re: Brits can't help themselves...

Post by RadiO »

MKSheppard wrote: :roll:

Out of 91,000 troops that participated in Iraqi Freedom, over
20,000 were British troops, or about 21%. Not an altogether
insignificant amount.
Turning that around: Given that 75+ % of the forces were American, is it really that much of a surprise that the objectives assigned to British forces in this war were comparitively limited?
That was before they stopped at Basra and spent the better part of
two weeks tieing up over 21,000 troops sitting around one city and
making occasional raids.
The final assault on Basra was concurrent with the big push into central Baghdad. Was that coincidental?
And was the decision to hold at Basra made wholly by British officers, with absolutely no control, input or approval from US commanders?
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Post by Darth PhysBod »

MKSheppard wrote:Some concessions towards the brits though:

Their political situation wasn't that great at home concerning
Tony Blair's chances of staying in power, so I can see him
making sure the British forces aren't heavily enaged.

And making your ally do all the heavy lifting is a valid,
if slightly repugnant military tactic, as evidenced by
a popular joke in British Army messes during 1942:

Q: What is Happiness?

A: Happiness is 3 million dead Germans floating
down the Volga, each Fritz resting on a raft of
4 dead Ivans.
Actually before the war started it was reported (in the Times)that the pentagon overruled Gen.Franks in wanting the UK contingent to play a more prominent role (having about 20-25% of the armour as 4ID never made it) :roll:
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