Christian school.

[master_yoda]

I have misfortune of going to a christian school. Recently, one of my atheist (or agnostic, I'm not really sure, but I doubt he doesn't believe in god due to the overwhelming proof) was pulled out for not bowing his head during assembly, where we're required to do so.

So the question is, what should I do to avoid a similiar fate?

[Darksider]

I have misfortune of going to a christian school. Recently, one of my atheist (or agnostic, I'm not really sure, but I doubt he doesn't believe in god due to the overwhelming proof) was pulled out for not bowing his head during assembly, where we're required to do so.

So the question is, what should I do to avoid a similiar fate?

Unless it severly imposes on your beliefs just nod your head and go along with it (that's what i do during religous holidays) If it is a severe inconveince then try to find another school

[Ravencrow]

I'd say just do it. Bowing your head doesn't really have to mean anything. Look at it this way, you are just being considerate to those around you. Like if i have to enter an Indian temple, I would take off my shoes - not because I believe in anything, just that it's a practice of basic respect. "When in Rome...." But if you really don't want to and you have a choice, then try to find a new school.

[Companion Cube]

I agree with Ravencrow, just go along with their beliefs-visibly, at least-and hopefully they'll leave you alone if they think you believe.

[Darksider]

I agree with Ravencrow, just go along with their beliefs-visibly, at least-and hopefully they'll leave you alone if they think you believe.

Hey!!!!! i said that first. Does anyone ever read my posts????

[Alyeska]

Do not submit to their rules. They are attempting to force religon and religous beliefs upon you.

[Ravencrow]

Nobody can force you to believe in something when you don't, mate. You are giving them too much power with that kind of accusation.

[Zoink]

If you are forced to go to this school by your parents, you can look at it as an opertunity to learn about the religion. I had to sit through 11 years of M.R.E. (moral and religious eduction) courses, during Canadian public school. Elementary school we had to say Lord's Prayer everyday (Our father...still got that thing stuck in my head). None of this had any effect on me (being an athiest), but I did learn some Christian mythology, which doesn't hurt.

Personally, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't participate in any Christian rituals, although I would sit quitly while others are doing so (if at a Christian school).

If not participating means getting kicked out, and if this causes trouble for you and your parents, then that's a decision you'll have to make.

[Stormbringer]

Do not submit to their rules. They are attempting to force religon and religous beliefs upon you.

Well duh. But if he has to be there it's silly to piss them off and earn blackmarks for something so trivial. Bowing your head because you have to doesn't mean you're going to go out and slaughtered the heathen infidels. Try having a little perspective.

[His Divine Shadow]

I have misfortune of going to a christian school. Recently, one of my atheist (or agnostic, I'm not really sure, but I doubt he doesn't believe in god due to the overwhelming proof) was pulled out for not bowing his head during assembly, where we're required to do so.

So the question is, what should I do to avoid a similiar fate?

Refuse to piss on their smoking bodies to smolder the flames?

I went to a school like that too, I just didn't go to assembly.

[Queeb Salaron]

I have misfortune of going to a christian school. Recently, one of my atheist (or agnostic, I'm not really sure, but I doubt he doesn't believe in god due to the overwhelming proof) was pulled out for not bowing his head during assembly, where we're required to do so.

So the question is, what should I do to avoid a similiar fate?

The obvious answer: Bow your friggin' head.

The not-so-obvious answer: Bowing your head is a sign of respect. Regardless of your friend's faith, and whether or not he has any sympathy for Christians, he should at least show respect for the people who do practice it. I'm guessing that your agnostic friend was pulled out because he was disrespectful. It is one thing to politely decline to receive communion. It is another thing entirely to not stand when the Gospels are read. The former is a rite of Christians, the latter is a rite of respect.

Four years of Catholic high school teaches you this kind of thing. Bowing your head is not a sign of subservience. It would be the same for a Christian to go into a Jewish temple for a wedding ceremony and refuse to stand for the presentation of the Torah. It's a matter of respect, that's all.

[Queeb Salaron]

Do not submit to their rules. They are attempting to force religon and religous beliefs upon you.

That's the most bullshit I've ever heard. It's a Christian school (though probably not just Christian -- Catholic, most likely. Prolly Jesuit or Xaverian). These kids are free to go whenever they want to go. The fact is that they CHOSE to go to that school, and therefore CHOSE to abide by the rules laid out in the student handbook. And if there is a code of conduct for these assembelies that says that students must bow their heads, then they must bow their heads. If they don't want to, they can leave. There's no imposition, here. There's no forcing kids into religious beliefs. That's ludicrous. I spent 4 years in a Catholic (Xaverian) high school, and I'm about as Christian as Gandhi. As are most of the kids that I hung around with. No one forces anything on you, and even if they did, you have the option of leaving.

Now if it were a public school, this conversation would be TOTALLY different.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

I have misfortune of going to a christian school. Recently, one of my atheist (or agnostic, I'm not really sure, but I doubt he doesn't believe in god due to the overwhelming proof) was pulled out for not bowing his head during assembly, where we're required to do so.

So the question is, what should I do to avoid a similiar fate?

The obvious answer: Bow your friggin' head.

The not-so-obvious answer: Bowing your head is a sign of respect. Regardless of your friend's faith, and whether or not he has any sympathy for Christians, he should at least show respect for the people who do practice it. I'm guessing that your agnostic friend was pulled out because he was disrespectful. It is one thing to politely decline to receive communion. It is another thing entirely to not stand when the Gospels are read. The former is a rite of Christians, the latter is a rite of respect.

Four years of Catholic high school teaches you this kind of thing. Bowing your head is not a sign of subservience. It would be the same for a Christian to go into a Jewish temple for a wedding ceremony and refuse to stand for the presentation of the Torah. It's a matter of respect, that's all.

In my opinion the Gospels are not worthy of respect. Unless being "pulled out" means that you'll be expelled from the school I would refuse to do so. If being "pulled out" means that your being taken out of the assembly I would just let them take me out of the assembly, It wouldn't affect my ability to graduate. If it means being expelled I would bow my head, but I would make it abuntly clear, to anyone who cared, that I respected neither the neither the institution, the gospels, nor the practice of bowing ones head.

[Zoink]

The not-so-obvious answer: Bowing your head is a sign of respect. ..... It is another thing entirely to not stand when the Gospels are read. The former is a rite of Christians, the latter is a rite of respect.

Four years of Catholic high school teaches you this kind of thing. Bowing your head is not a sign of subservience. It would be the same for a Christian to go into a Jewish temple for a wedding ceremony and refuse to stand for the presentation of the Torah. It's a matter of respect, that's all.

It still depends. When I go to a Christian wedding I am going on my own free will. My acceptance into the wedding is dependant on my following some basic rules that my friend set out. If I told him that "I refuse to stand during prayer"... I wouldn't be invited.

If he is going to this school against his will, he is under no obligation to respect Christian practice, this includes standing or bowing his head (to give the "appearance" of participating). It is not his fault if others are bothered that he isn't giving the appearance of going along. Likewise a Christian can't be forced to give the appearance of participating in a Satanic ritual, out of respect.

It boils down to: do you want to remain in the Christain school (follow their rules) or not (and except the concequences).

[Queeb Salaron]

In my opinion the Gospels are not worthy of respect. Unless being "pulled out" means that you'll be expelled from the school I would refuse to do so. If being "pulled out" means that your being taken out of the assembly I would just let them take me out of the assembly, It wouldn't affect my ability to graduate. If it means being expelled I would bow my head, but I would make it abuntly clear, to anyone who cared, that I respected neither the neither the institution, the gospels, nor the practice of bowing ones head.

It's not about respect for the gospels. It's about respect for those who hold the gospels in reverence. You are essentially insulting the gospels by not standing when they are read. While I have no qualms about that, certain Christians (particularly Catholics) would. Bowing your head is a way to not offend them.

And hell, they're not asking you to testify that you have been touched by the Lord. They're asking you to bow your head in respect. You'd do the same if you were forced to go to a funeral for someone you didn't really like or towards whom you were dispassionate. It's a matter of respect for those who care. You have to tolerate that kind of thing. After all, it is YOU who are in THEIR house, not the other way around.

[Durandal]

I have misfortune of going to a christian school. Recently, one of my atheist (or agnostic, I'm not really sure, but I doubt he doesn't believe in god due to the overwhelming proof) was pulled out for not bowing his head during assembly, where we're required to do so.

So the question is, what should I do to avoid a similiar fate?

Just go along with all the delusional people and their invisible sky pixie. They're a Christian school, so they can force their religion on you without fear of legal reprisal.

[Morat]

Have you told your parents that you aren't a Christian? You might try asking them if you can go to a different school.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

In my opinion the Gospels are not worthy of respect. Unless being "pulled out" means that you'll be expelled from the school I would refuse to do so. If being "pulled out" means that your being taken out of the assembly I would just let them take me out of the assembly, It wouldn't affect my ability to graduate. If it means being expelled I would bow my head, but I would make it abuntly clear, to anyone who cared, that I respected neither the neither the institution, the gospels, nor the practice of bowing ones head.

It's not about respect for the gospels. It's about respect for those who hold the gospels in reverence. You are essentially insulting the gospels by not standing when they are read. While I have no qualms about that, certain Christians (particularly Catholics) would. Bowing your head is a way to not offend them.

And hell, they're not asking you to testify that you have been touched by the Lord. They're asking you to bow your head in respect. You'd do the same if you were forced to go to a funeral for someone you didn't really like or towards whom you were dispassionate. It's a matter of respect for those who care. You have to tolerate that kind of thing. After all, it is YOU who are in THEIR house, not the other way around.

I have no more respect for the people who hold the Gospels in reverence then I have for the Gospels themselves (at least in terms of respect for their religious beliefs). Showing respect for something you despise is nothing more then a lie, and if I am forced into the appearence of paying respect towards something I despise, I will make it clear that I am merely going through the motions of respect for it benefits me in some fation. As a guiding rule offending someone should only be a concern if you fear their power.

If I were present at Hilter's funeral (which is impossible seeing as he was dead long before I was born) I would NOT show respect even though those around me would at least expect me to respect their belief in him. To show respect towards that which does not deserve it it to make a mockery of the term.

[jegs2]

I have misfortune of going to a christian school. Recently, one of my atheist (or agnostic, I'm not really sure, but I doubt he doesn't believe in god due to the overwhelming proof) was pulled out for not bowing his head during assembly, where we're required to do so.

So the question is, what should I do to avoid a similiar fate?

I would tell them and your parents that you have no belief in God and so request to be excluded from public prayer sessions. If permission is denied by your parents, then submit to their will until you move out.

[Rye]

Sometimes it's just bigger and better to bite the bullet than kick a fuss up about something so trivial, you know you don't care, and that's all that really matters, you're just doing it for their benefit. That's way more christlike than their attitudes of throw people out that don't conform.

There is a line to be drawn though, they can't make you do or say something that's wrong, and you have every right to fight against injustice, the key is to find when to offend people and go off on your own way, and when to just get on with the mess at hand.

[Queeb Salaron]

I have no more respect for the people who hold the Gospels in reverence then I have for the Gospels themselves (at least in terms of respect for their religious beliefs). Showing respect for something you despise is nothing more then a lie, and if I am forced into the appearence of paying respect towards something I despise, I will make it clear that I am merely going through the motions of respect for it benefits me in some fation. As a guiding rule offending someone should only be a concern if you fear their power.

If I were present at Hilter's funeral (which is impossible seeing as he was dead long before I was born) I would NOT show respect even though those around me would at least expect me to respect their belief in him. To show respect towards that which does not deserve it it to make a mockery of the term.

Wow. It feels like I'm talking to Anton Szandor Lavey. But that's impossible, seeing as he's long dead. I suggest you read up on him. You'd like him.

Of course, that's all your point of view, and you're entitled to it. I can't very well say you're wrong for despising Christians, because that would be hypocritical of me. The only thing that I can say is that where you lack social propriety (I'm expecting the usual "fuck propriety" post in response to this one. ) it abounds in others. Like myself. I'm all for protest, so long as it is peaceful. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to oppose religious beliefs. The way I see it is this: If you're in mass, and you're not there by choice, you have a couple of options. You can refuse to respond to the responsorials. You can refuse to accept communion. You can refuse to sing along with the hymns. You can not say the prayers, and not say "amen" on cue. You can do all of these things. But if you do things like walk in the communion line and when the eucharistic minister says, "the body of Christ," you respond, "no, that's a fucking cracker, dumbass," you're not stating your disregard for Christianity, but rather your ignorance and animosity. Be civil. Bow your head. Stand up when they tell you to. Beyond that, I say fuck 'em.

EDIT: PS, I didn't mean to insinuate that you were ignorant, of course... It was just an example.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

I have no more respect for the people who hold the Gospels in reverence then I have for the Gospels themselves (at least in terms of respect for their religious beliefs). Showing respect for something you despise is nothing more then a lie, and if I am forced into the appearence of paying respect towards something I despise, I will make it clear that I am merely going through the motions of respect for it benefits me in some fation. As a guiding rule offending someone should only be a concern if you fear their power.

If I were present at Hilter's funeral (which is impossible seeing as he was dead long before I was born) I would NOT show respect even though those around me would at least expect me to respect their belief in him. To show respect towards that which does not deserve it it to make a mockery of the term.

Wow. It feels like I'm talking to Anton Szandor Lavey. But that's impossible, seeing as he's long dead. I suggest you read up on him. You'd like him.

Of course, that's all your point of view, and you're entitled to it. I can't very well say you're wrong for despising Christians, because that would be hypocritical of me. The only thing that I can say is that where you lack social propriety (I'm expecting the usual "fuck propriety" post in response to this one. ) it abounds in others. Like myself. I'm all for protest, so long as it is peaceful. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to oppose religious beliefs. The way I see it is this: If you're in mass, and you're not there by choice, you have a couple of options. You can refuse to respond to the responsorials. You can refuse to accept communion. You can refuse to sing along with the hymns. You can not say the prayers, and not say "amen" on cue. You can do all of these things. But if you do things like walk in the communion line and when the eucharistic minister says, "the body of Christ," you respond, "no, that's a fucking cracker, dumbass," you're not stating your disregard for Christianity, but rather your ignorance and animosity. Be civil. Bow your head. Stand up when they tell you to. Beyond that, I say fuck 'em.

EDIT: PS, I didn't mean to insinuate that you were ignorant, of course... It was just an example.

Your ignoring my point. Why should one show respect towards what one despises when there is no risk (or neglidible consequences) in doing so? If something is evil or wrong you should take a stand against it, even if it means "offending" those who believe in it. The terms "Be Civil" or "Respect the Belief of others" are nothing more then covers for refusing to make or act upon the judgement that something is wrong or evil.

[Queeb Salaron]

Your ignoring my point. Why should one show respect towards what one despises when there is no risk (or neglidible consequences) in doing so? If something is evil or wrong you should take a stand against it, even if it means "offending" those who believe in it. The terms "Be Civil" or "Respect the Belief of others" are nothing more then covers for refusing to make or act upon the judgement that something is wrong or evil.

Sure. I totally agree with you. But someone making you bow your head in reverence isn't a great all-encompasing, world-ending evil. You're making mountains out of molehills, IMO. I mean, I suppose if it offends you that much, you can refuse to bow your head. But then if it offends you to THAT degree, why are you even there at all?

Sure. Take a stand against bad things. Ok. But in the case of Religion, you have to understand that there are people who are easily offended by your ostentatious displays of disregard. Religion is different than politics. Except in extreme nutball cases, religious beliefs don't kill people. There is no great evil to stand up against at, say, a Catholic mass. If you don't like it, don't go. That's a much more effective display of distaste for the Church than going and being a bastard about it. And it will make more people happy, too. If you're hoping to convert people by not bowing, you're in for a hell of a surprise. What are you expecting?

"Wow, look at that guy! He's not bowing his head! He must know something we don't! Hey everyone! Don't bow your head! Be like this guy!"

Come on, now... Let's have a mind about this.

[Durandal]

Sure. I totally agree with you. But someone making you bow your head in reverence isn't a great all-encompasing, world-ending evil. You're making mountains out of molehills, IMO. I mean, I suppose if it offends you that much, you can refuse to bow your head. But then if it offends you to THAT degree, why are you even there at all?

He's at a Catholic school. So was I. At Catholic schools, masses are mandatory, and I know that I didn't choose to go to a Catholic high school; my parents chose it and forced me to go (and then had me pay my own tuition my senior year, but that's a different story). Such is probably the case with master_yoda. Of course, once he turns 18, he'll be a senior on the verge of graduating, and there's little point in him using his authority as a legal adult to transfer to a different school.

If he really doesn't want to be there, he only has two options:
1. Continually bitch and moan to his parents to put him in a public school.
2. Piss on a crucifix during mass and get expelled.

Neither option is really desireable, as he will still end up having to make new friends at a new school, adapt to a new curriculum, et cetera ...

So, he's pretty much forced to stay there against his will, and since Catholic schools can punish their students for virtually any offense they care to (my high school would expel a girl for having an abortion, for example, and they also punished students who were arrested for underage drinking outside of school, over Winter break and not during school hours), they can do whatever they want to him if he doesn't bow his head.

Sure. Take a stand against bad things. Ok. But in the case of Religion, you have to understand that there are people who are easily offended by your ostentatious displays of disregard.

The thing that religious people don't understand is that atheists are offended by their disregard, as well, such as forcing students to bow their heads while a guy in a funny white robe talks to himself on a stage before shamelessly plugging for their hard-earned money.

Religion is different than politics. Except in extreme nutball cases, religious beliefs don't kill people. There is no great evil to stand up against at, say, a Catholic mass. If you don't like it, don't go. That's a much more effective display of distaste for the Church than going and being a bastard about it. And it will make more people happy, too. If you're hoping to convert people by not bowing, you're in for a hell of a surprise. What are you expecting?

He's not looking to convert people; he simply does not want to be forced to pay respect to a belief that he does not hold as valid. This is his right as an individual. Granted, a Catholic school is not legally bound to uphold this right, but if the Pope is petitioning for God to be mentioned in the EU Constitution as the granter of civil rights, then they damn well should respect his right to freedom of religious expression.

However, the fact remains that Catholic schools are not legally obligated to respect civil rights, so there is no recourse if you refuse to pay homage to the Magic Catholic Sky Pixie and are punished for it. The system is a bitch, and if I had my way, religious schools wouldn't even be allowed to exist, but unfortunately, I'm not the dictator of the United States.

So, go ahead and protest if you wish. If anything, it'll make you feel good to stand up for your rights as a human being and to piss off your Catholic Overlords, but you must understand that they have the power, and you do not. In my case, I simply shut my mouth during mass, didn't accept communion and made fun of the priest for being a pompous jackass with all my friends who sat in the same row as I did, even though I am a baptized and confirmed Catholic.

[Ravencrow]

The catholic school assumes that since you are with them, that you have to follow their rules. They did tell you they are a catholic school. If you don't, they won't expect you to stay with them either.