Does Trek has *any* advantage over Wars?

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

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Slartibartfast
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Post by Slartibartfast »

The Admiral wrote:The tower then blows up rather spectalitly, blasting 2 X-wings to bits...

Rebels, arn't usally very keen, only loseing pilots to know out sensors...
Have you even watched the movie?! Everybody's fire was concentrated on the Executor, including capital fire (not shown but said in dialogue), eventually the shields give out and a fighter shot blows a dome (that doesn't kill anyone, it simply blows up). Nobody was ganging up on the poor dome!
As for the website, how long would it take me to read it all?
i'm slowly going though It, but I don't have forever online...
There's something about "everything in 5 minutes", it's sort of a summary about everything, specially most often fucked up Trekkie nonsense (laser immunity, etc). Only about 2 or 3 pages long.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

To prevent being ass-raped by many of the olders...most entering should read the Website before posting unless you are an older ASVS or SB battler and have heard many of these arguments before.
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Post by The Admiral »

Ok I'll have a look...
But they wouldn't of shown the shot unless it was inportant, and it was rather conicedental, that at that point the bridge schild went down. And why shoot that when you could blast a trubolaser or a hanger...
Anyway where drifitng of the point.
And where did the 'its just a sesore cluser' stuff come from?

Admiral
To kill one, it is a great tragedy,
To kill one million, it is a statisic" -Stalin
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Post by Kerneth »

The Admiral wrote:RTFW?
I have to learn so many new definations now I'm here...
I've never been fond of the fed's goveremnt I'm mearly trying to suggest what possibal advatages the feds could have at all, which is the perpuse(sp) of this thread.
About the towers on the star destroyers, are they really sensore pods?
Because in episode 6, the X-wings seemed awful keen on blasting them, and what aout 'Captain we've lost or bridge defector shild' Or was that a conencidence?

Admiral
I think RTFW = "Read the F***ing Website"

Think of it this way. The X-Wings are getting shot at by the ISD's light turbolaser batteries. The sensor globes may feed tracking/targetting information to those batteries, and knocking them out would lower the effectiveness of the weapons by forcing them to rely on local targeting capability. If nothing else, blowing up the sensor globes only required a few hits from starfighter-grade laser weapons, and as long as they had a clear shot at them why not blow them up in passing?

And if those *were* shield generators, why would blowing up both of them *only* drop the bridge deflector shield? 8)

Think about it. If the shield generators for the bridge had to be mounted in such a ridiculously obvious spot, wouldn't that suggest that all the shield generators on the ship would need to be a similar--and stupidly vulnerable--arrangement? For that matter, what would be the POINT of having shields if the shield generators couldn't be protected by the shields and were that easy to destroy? Waste of energy, all the other guy has to do is send a squadron of starfighters on a strafing run with lasers and your ship's shields are gone. For that matter, the anti-starfighter turbolaser batteries on board a starship could target the generators, they're a LOT bigger than a starfighter and not really a moving target.

Most Probable Scenario:
The starfighters are strafing the ISD. Enough damage accumulates on the bridge deflector shield to lower it, perhaps only temporarily, and the starfighters attack the only target of opportunity they can destroy (having expended their torpedo and missile loadouts to get the shield down in the first place), the two sensor globes that are feeding targeting information to the Star Destroyer's turbolaser batteries. Blowing those globes up forces those guns to go to whatever backup sensors the individual turbolaser battiers may have, which are probably weaker than the main sensors for the vessel, and may also hurt the ISDs ability to penetrate the starfighter and Rebel capital ship ECM.

You're always better off in a fight if you can blind the bastard you're trying to kill :twisted:

End result? The starfighters have successfully lowered the ISD's shields over the bridge, and have perhaps seriously weakened the ISD's ability to target starfighters with its weapons, opening the vessel up to further attacks on the bridge--perhaps by a fighter squadron that has a few warheads left or has somehow gotten to land and reload, or by heavy capital ship batteries. Even if the bridge deflector shield was going to be down for, oh, a minute, that's plenty long enough for a pair of opportunistic A-Wings with a pair of concussion missiles to come in fast and hard and see if they can't put those warheads into the ship's main bridge, which would be sufficient to ruin everybody on the bridge's entire freaking day.
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Post by Slartibartfast »

The Admiral wrote:Ok I'll have a look...
But they wouldn't of shown the shot unless it was inportant, and it was rather conicedental, that at that point the bridge schild went down. And why shoot that when you could blast a trubolaser or a hanger...
Anyway where drifitng of the point.
And where did the 'its just a sesore cluser' stuff come from?

Admiral
That's a simple cause-effect confusion. If you're wearing a helmet, and some dude removes it so I can hit you in the head and knock you unconscious, does it mean that knocking you out makes you lose your helmet?

The dome was ON TOP of the bridge you know. It would have been protected by the bridge shields.
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Post by Ted C »

The Admiral wrote:The tower then blows up rather spectalitly, blasting 2 X-wings to bits...
Rebels, arn't usally very keen, only loseing pilots to know out sensors...
As for the website, how long would it take me to read it all?
i'm slowly going though It, but I don't have forever online...
You're mixing up cause and effect. The officer on the bridge was simply stating the obvious; he knew the shield had failed because the sensor dome had been damaged. The sensor dome couldn't have been damaged if the shield had still been up.
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Post by The Admiral »

I stand corrected.

The admiral
To kill one, it is a great tragedy,
To kill one million, it is a statisic" -Stalin
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Post by Kerneth »

There are no hangers near the bridge, and they would be empty anyway, there's a battle going on in case you hadn't noticed :lol:

Which is more effective, knocking out one, maybe two turbolaser batteries, or knocking out a sensor globe when doing so may degrade the accuracy of every single turbolaser battery, of which the vessel has dozens if it is an ISD and over a hundred if it's an Executor-class Star Destroyer.

Even if the accuracy is only degraded by 10 or 15% it's well-worth it to blow up those sensor globes as opposed to a single turbolaser battery. If it's higher, say, 25%, knocking out a turbolaser when you could knock out the sensors goes from being merely stupid to criminally negligent.
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Post by The Admiral »

But now we go onto the point of why are those vitaly inportant sensore stations so exposed?
Also you might one to blast all the guns in one area to allow you access, or force the ship to move,
And hangers, have fuel in them, makes a big boom, and these are fighters, it don't take them that long to move.
Which of the quotes do people like the best by the way?

Admiral
To kill one, it is a great tragedy,
To kill one million, it is a statisic" -Stalin
“Mission? What mission, you never said anything about a mission.”- Sarah Grimshaw

“Ohhh my god, The Admiral’s gone mad.” –Admiral Halsey

I do what I damn well want to, it’s my ship –Admiral Halsey

Because you, my dear are not suppose to be here. –Hanna Logan

“Huh, I suppose you felt that thought the force” – Sarah Grimshaw
“No I felt it though my foot, let’s go.” – Mara Jade
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Post by Ted C »

The Admiral wrote:But now we go onto the point of why are those vitaly inportant sensore stations so exposed?
The domes send and receive sensor pulses. Putting them behind several meters of armor would be self-defeating.
The Admiral wrote: Also you might one to blast all the guns in one area to allow you access, or force the ship to move,
That made no sense.
The Admiral wrote: And hangers, have fuel in them, makes a big boom, and these are fighters, it don't take them that long to move.
What makes you think the hangars aren't shielded? They probably are targets of opportunity, but that doesn't mean a strafing run has much chance of success.
The Admiral wrote: Which of the quotes do people like the best by the way?
What quotes?

PLEASE take some time to read through the main site before you post any more of these suggestions.
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Post by The Admiral »

Ok Ok, Reading is in progress.
Quotes, are the ones in my sig.

As for the turbo lasers comment, I would be a lot easyer for you to straf the SSD if you knoked out all the weapons in one quadrent, lower the weapons accracy all over the ship dosn't help you do that, and even with reduced accray thoses trubo lasers would have a hard time missing home one.

Admiral
To kill one, it is a great tragedy,
To kill one million, it is a statisic" -Stalin
“Mission? What mission, you never said anything about a mission.”- Sarah Grimshaw

“Ohhh my god, The Admiral’s gone mad.” –Admiral Halsey

I do what I damn well want to, it’s my ship –Admiral Halsey

Because you, my dear are not suppose to be here. –Hanna Logan

“Huh, I suppose you felt that thought the force” – Sarah Grimshaw
“No I felt it though my foot, let’s go.” – Mara Jade
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Post by Lord of the Farce »

The Admiral wrote:The repulsar thing, SW my have repulsar lifts, but in ST the have huge captial ship sets, that can push ships around. In SW they arn't used on that kind of scale.
While ST have some fairly big capital ships, most of them are usually quite slim, and don't have that much mass (the so called "apparent mass reduction" doesn't help them in this respect). On the other hand, typical SW capital ships uses durasteel alloy (which uses neutronium in it's making) in construction, and Interdictors has on at least one occasion "bounced" a Star Destroyer away (although it did get some internal damage because they had to do it in a hurry).

Basically, if a typical ST ship tried to push a SW ship, it'll just throw itself around.
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Post by Slartibartfast »

The Admiral wrote:But now we go onto the point of why are those vitaly inportant sensore stations so exposed?
The same reason you wouldn't bury a security camera under several tons of concrete so nobody steals the tape :roll:
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Post by spaceluigi »

Hmm... read the fucking web site?

Try reading the fucking essential guides.
Think of it this way. The X-Wings are getting shot at by the ISD's light turbolaser batteries. The sensor globes may feed tracking/targetting information to those batteries, and knocking them out would lower the effectiveness of the weapons by forcing them to rely on local targeting capability. If nothing else, blowing up the sensor globes only required a few hits from starfighter-grade laser weapons, and as long as they had a clear shot at them why not blow them up in passing?

And if those *were* shield generators, why would blowing up both of them *only* drop the bridge deflector shield?
One of them is for the bridge, the other is for the rest of the ship. Don't believe me, CHECK THE ESSENTIAL GUIDES, BOTH VEHICLES AND VESSELS AND WEAPONS AND TECHNOLOGY.

PS: I didn't see anyone correct him.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Yes...and why would the be OUTSIDE THE SHIELDS?! :roll:

I mean no other vessel in the Entire Star Wars Saga has such an inane design...but Kuat Drive Yards belives they'll be radical for a few models. :roll:
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Post by KhyronTheBackstabber »

The Admiral wrote:
As for the turbo lasers comment, I would be a lot easyer for you to straf the SSD if you knoked out all the weapons in one quadrent, lower the weapons accracy all over the ship dosn't help you do that, and even with reduced accray thoses trubo lasers would have a hard time missing home one.

Admiral
Taking out the weapons in one quadrant, would be a big waist of time, and useless. The cannons are under the shields, so you still have to knock the shields out. At this point you only have a small amount of time before the techs repair the shield, and there are a shit load of TLs. So instead of taking out a few turbo lasers, this time would be better spent going for critical systems, and try to cause a haul breech. To put it another way, it would be like fighting a lion, and instead of stabbing the lion in the neck, or though the eye with your knife, you try to remove his teeth, and claws.
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Post by Dalton »

spaceluigi wrote:Hmm... read the fucking web site?

Try reading the fucking essential guides.
Someone Else wrote:Think of it this way. The X-Wings are getting shot at by the ISD's light turbolaser batteries. The sensor globes may feed tracking/targetting information to those batteries, and knocking them out would lower the effectiveness of the weapons by forcing them to rely on local targeting capability. If nothing else, blowing up the sensor globes only required a few hits from starfighter-grade laser weapons, and as long as they had a clear shot at them why not blow them up in passing?

And if those *were* shield generators, why would blowing up both of them *only* drop the bridge deflector shield?
One of them is for the bridge, the other is for the rest of the ship.
1. You have zero proof.
2. There were more than two of those globes.
spaceluigi wrote:Don't believe me, CHECK THE ESSENTIAL GUIDES, BOTH VEHICLES AND VESSELS AND WEAPONS AND TECHNOLOGY.
Other sources disagree. http://www.theforce.net/swtc/towers.html#globes
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Post by Alyeska »

The jury is still out on the globe issue. There is evidence indicating either way. That still does not change the fact that the shields must be down regardless before you can cause any hull damage. In the case of the ROTJ scene it doesn't really mater if those were shield generators or not. The shields had to be down for the A-Wings to get through.

Now lets analyze the scene a little. The Executor class has a known weakness in that is is underarmed and has less shields then a ship its size should. Throughout the EU we have seen countless examples where aproximately 5 ISDs worth of firepower and defenses can take on an SSD and win most of the time. The Executor was surrounded by ~6 Mon-Cal cruisers at this time. Ackbar ordered concentrated fire on the Executor. Its shields began to buckle under the impact. However, rather then the shields completely failing it opened up holes in the shields (Reference Bacta War to fire causing shield holes without complete shield loss). There just so happened to be one of these holes near the bridge. The A-Wings slip through and destroy the globe. It can be argued they destroyed the globe to degrade weapon performance or make it harder for the bridge area shields to come back. We shall ignore that point entirely. Anyway, with the loss of the globe the bridge officer warns the Captain and the XO. Its likely the shield hole occured fast enough the A-Wings struck before the officer could tell the captain. Note that he told them right as the ship was rocking. A little to fast for the globes to have been the source of the shield failure, but fast enough to tell them the shields had failed shortly before the A-Wing attack.

Its really quite simple. Shields must be down or have point failures for enemy strike craft to cause damage. A-Wings and suicide A-Wing merely take advantage of this.
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Post by spaceluigi »

First of all, the Star Wars Essential Guides have the copyright from Lucasfilm. Now, I assume that's what we go by, or do we simply go by whatever makes Star Wars look good and whatever makes Star Trek look bad?

Moving on.

Alright, you wanna know what Star Trek has? Here. READ.

You say your fighters have hulls that can stand multi-kiloton blasts? BULLSHIT! X-Wings hull’s are made of Titanium! Source: The Essential Guide to Vehicles an Vessels!

Star Trek doesn’t even stoop to using fighters, we’re already coming to a close to manned fightercraft today! Dammit, a guy interviewed on CNN said that! And as a matter of fact, I have heard of the F-22, and the rest of the fighters. THEY ARE THE LAST. Ever heard of Predator? Yeah… gee… let’s wonder why the manned fightercraft program is ending… technology improves, and it isn’t safe to put a guy in a skimpy fighter today! The only reason we haven’t lost more guys flying in Iraq is because… they don’t have half the force we do! Anyhow, Star Trek ships use duranium and tritanium! Duranium = Extremely hard to cut, Star Trek Encyclopedia; Titanium = Used in A-10’s TODAY!

Your damn laser cannons… oh, they’re not lasers, they only have the word laser in them… well, they are… partly. It’s a beam of light and charged particles *slap* gee, that sounds like it could deck a Constitution class in three hits… especially considering that we matched that exact technology in the 1960’s as an orbital missile defense… Source: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology and the National Air and Space Museum

Your damn “Proton Torpedoes” and “Concussion Missiles” are powerful, but there’s one teeny tiny problem… they still use explosive warheads. Powerful chemical explosive warheads, but chemical warheads nonetheless. They can take out ground installations at best. They’re the equivalent of bunker busters today. Furthermore, they can travel a whole 300-700… METERS! This bullshit about an X-Wing possessing enough firepower to confidently duke it out with a Federation fleet? It’s exactly that…bullshit. Source: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology…

Trek Photon Torpedoes can easily wipe their viewscreens clean of any Star Wars bug nearby. They use matter and antimatter to kill, with an effective explosive yield of 200 isotons. Then there’s the Quantum Torpedo, utilizing the most powerful energy the universe has to offer: Quintessence, Zero-Point Energy (ZPE) or Vacuum Energy, call it what you want! It’s called ZPE because there is another energy out there keeping it at bay… and keeping us alive… if it weren’t out there the universe would expand so fast the electrostatic and nuclear bonds of all matter and energy would cease to exist! It is on the magnitude of 120 orders more powerful than ALL the matter and energy in the universe! It is at a constant density, and can never be used up as the universe expands, doesn’t mean this energy does! There is enough energy in at most 1 coffee cup full of it that IT CAN BOIL THE EARTH’S OCEANS AWAY. Oh, yes, I forgot to add: The range on these mothers is 3.5 million kilometers. As opposed to 300-700 meters. Source: Star Trek Encyclopedia (photon torp) and physicsweb.org (quantum torp)

In simpler terms, idiots, the only thing Star Wars is good for is running away!

PS: I'd like to add, that why don't you frickin' assholes try proving your point?
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Post by spaceluigi »

After all, "it looked pathetic" is a sorry excuse for a arguement, for a Trekkie I suppose. But then, it's legal for some Star Wars fan to easily be completely wrong about his whole post and then say "it looked pathetic" and that'd be the end of the arguement.

That's not utilizing science to prove theories, it's called a pathetic bias that is a complete waste of 0's and 1's.
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Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

spaceluigi wrote:First of all, the Star Wars Essential Guides have the copyright from Lucasfilm. Now, I assume that's what we go by, or do we simply go by whatever makes Star Wars look good and whatever makes Star Trek look bad?
Mandell Blueprints + common sense + numerous references in official material > X-Wing books.
You say your fighters have hulls that can stand multi-kiloton blasts? BULLSHIT! X-Wings hull’s are made of Titanium! Source: The Essential Guide to Vehicles an Vessels!
TIEs have KT lasers. X-Wings can survive shots from an TIE's attack. Hence, X-Wings can withstand kiloton level attacks.
Your damn laser cannons… oh, they’re not lasers, they only have the word laser in them… well, they are… partly. It’s a beam of light and charged particles *slap* gee, that sounds like it could deck a Constitution class in three hits… especially considering that we matched that exact technology in the 1960’s as an orbital missile defense… Source: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology and the National Air and Space Museum
I suppose I should point out that photon torpedoes must use light as it attack because its in its name, and that phaser rifles must be projectile launchers, because of the fact that the barrel must be rifled. :roll:

Lasers are very different from modern day ones. They are visible for one thing. They travel slower than light. And for all your mindless babble they STILL do KT-GT damage, depending on the ship.
Your damn “Proton Torpedoes” and “Concussion Missiles” are powerful, but there’s one teeny tiny problem… they still use explosive warheads. Powerful chemical explosive warheads, but chemical warheads nonetheless. They can take out ground installations at best. They’re the equivalent of bunker busters today. Furthermore, they can travel a whole 300-700… METERS! This bullshit about an X-Wing possessing enough firepower to confidently duke it out with a Federation fleet? It’s exactly that…bullshit. Source: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology…
Anti-fighter Protorps have yields of 190MT, source EpII ICS. They have a range of far more than 300-700 meters, source AOTC the FILM. CANON > official.
Trek Photon Torpedoes can easily wipe their viewscreens clean of any Star Wars bug nearby. They use matter and antimatter to kill, with an effective explosive yield of 200 isotons. Then there’s the Quantum Torpedo, utilizing the most powerful energy the universe has to offer: Quintessence, Zero-Point Energy (ZPE) or Vacuum Energy, call it what you want! It’s called ZPE because there is another energy out there keeping it at bay… and keeping us alive… if it weren’t out there the universe would expand so fast the electrostatic and nuclear bonds of all matter and energy would cease to exist! It is on the magnitude of 120 orders more powerful than ALL the matter and energy in the universe! It is at a constant density, and can never be used up as the universe expands, doesn’t mean this energy does! There is enough energy in at most 1 coffee cup full of it that IT CAN BOIL THE EARTH’S OCEANS AWAY. Oh, yes, I forgot to add: The range on these mothers is 3.5 million kilometers. As opposed to 300-700 meters. Source: Star Trek Encyclopedia (photon torp) and physicsweb.org (quantum torp)
Isotons actually mean just tons, the prefix iso- meaning one. Therefor, Trek weapons have a yield of 200 tons. :roll: Using your logic, anyways.

Quantum torps have never exhibited what you have described. Therefor the above explanation is NOT canon in the Trek universe, and until such evidence surfaces, YOU ARE WRONG.

See how easily your arguments are shot down?

CHALLENGE TO SPACELUIGI: Quote my entire argument, and respond to each paragraph individually. Instead of restatign your argument over again. Are you up to it?
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Damn...and know I see more and more why people respect Alyeska. The man speaks with his head on.

You're just painful to read...that and nice of you to use no canon(it always good to see people taking official sources, never reconizing the movies and thinking they've dawned upon something)...and a piece of non-official(ST encylopedia) :roll:

I mean you're practically orgasming without even considering canon on any level.
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Post by spaceluigi »

seanrobertson wrote:"It looked sad" is a ridiculous effort at an argument.
spaceluigi wrote:Very good. They only call c the speed of light, but I guess light can't move at c. Ok, anyhow, I've just figured a weapon that could easily decimate the Death Star in one shot, thus one siding the battle. Don't worry though, you still have your fighters that possess the firepower of a small Federation fleet... without quantum torpedoes.

Quantum torpedoes use a subtle, little known energy known by many names. "Quintessence", "Zero-point energy" or "ZPE", and lastly, the common name is simply vacuum energy. It exists where nothing else does, in a non-particulate form. It is instead of attracted to, repelled by gravity (justifying why is exists in vacuums). It houses 2/3 of the universe's energy, and has been nearly proven with instances of the Casmir Effect. It is such a dense energy, that if its negating counterpart were not present, the universe would expand so fast that all particle electrostatic and nuclear bonds would be broken. Now, Quantum torpedoes can't trigger a universal release of this energy, but they can trigger a local release of the energy (by negating the counterpart force). It doesn't matter how strong you boast your shields to be. It doesn't matter what armor you have. And starfighters, as said earlier, are little more than cannon fodder. If that controlling energy is released locally, even for a billionth of a second, the damage would be catastrophic. Even to the Enterprise. But, nevertheless the Federation has utilized them, on Starfleet vessels.

If you don't believe me, look at this. The Star Trek Encyclopedia simply states that quantum torpedoes trigger a localized release. Now, the Encyclopedia has been used ONLY to identify the principle behind the Quantum Torpedoes.

PhysicsWeb.org -- "Today's cosmologists find Lambda to be just as objectionable, but for a different reason. All quantum fields possess a finite amount of "zero-point" vacuum energy as a result of the uncertainty principle. A naive estimate of the zero-point energy predicts a vacuum energy density that is 120 orders of magnitude greater than the energy density of all the other matter in the universe. If the vacuum energy density really is so enormous, it would cause an exponentially rapid expansion of the universe that would rip apart all the electrostatic and nuclear bonds that hold atoms and molecules together. There would be no galaxies, stars or energy as we know it."

www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/html/warp/possible.htm#vac -- "In simplistic terms it has been said that there is enough energy in the volume the size of a coffee cup to boil away Earth’s oceans." (Popular Science, May 2001, mentioned the 1 cc of space could tackle the whole boil the oceans thing)

There ya go.
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Dalton
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Post by Dalton »

Ah yes, the infamous Pseudoscience-powered ZPE Quantorp, which makes it so powerful that even Data thought THREE should be fired at a nuke missile turned into a starship.
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spaceluigi
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Post by spaceluigi »

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Mandell Blueprints + common sense + numerous references in official material > X-Wing books.
I see you have your sources also.
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:TIEs have KT lasers. X-Wings can survive shots from an TIE's attack. Hence, X-Wings can withstand kiloton level attacks.
Source for kiloton lasers? Is it backed by Lucasfilm or is it an independant website?
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I suppose I should point out that photon torpedoes must use light as it attack because its in its name, and that phaser rifles must be projectile launchers, because of the fact that the barrel must be rifled.

Lasers are very different from modern day ones. They are visible for one thing. They travel slower than light. And for all your mindless babble they STILL do KT-GT damage, depending on the ship.
Very good... except that I didn't say lasers were lasers in that post. They are partially a laser, with added charged/energetic particles. Why can you see it? As cited from the Star Wars Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, "While most pilots prefer visual sighting, - which is why most energy beams are configured to the visible light spectrum..." it goes on to say stuff about targeting computers. Again, for the KT-GT damage? Where's the proof?
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Quantum torps have never exhibited what you have described. Therefor the above explanation is NOT canon in the Trek universe, and until such evidence surfaces, YOU ARE WRONG.
And yet...
seanrobertson wrote:"It looked sad" is a ridiculous effort at an argument
But then...
DocHorror wrote:Mike Wong not teach you anything? He uses science.
So therefore, since they way it looked in the show has no relevance, I post this.
Spaceluigi wrote:Very good. They only call c the speed of light, but I guess light can't move at c. Ok, anyhow, I've just figured a weapon that could easily decimate the Death Star in one shot, thus one siding the battle. Don't worry though, you still have your fighters that possess the firepower of a small Federation fleet... without quantum torpedoes.

Quantum torpedoes use a subtle, little known energy known by many names. "Quintessence", "Zero-point energy" or "ZPE", and lastly, the common name is simply vacuum energy. It exists where nothing else does, in a non-particulate form. It is instead of attracted to, repelled by gravity (justifying why is exists in vacuums). It houses 2/3 of the universe's energy, and has been nearly proven with instances of the Casmir Effect. It is such a dense energy, that if its negating counterpart were not present, the universe would expand so fast that all particle electrostatic and nuclear bonds would be broken. Now, Quantum torpedoes can't trigger a universal release of this energy, but they can trigger a local release of the energy (by negating the counterpart force). It doesn't matter how strong you boast your shields to be. It doesn't matter what armor you have. And starfighters, as said earlier, are little more than cannon fodder. If that controlling energy is released locally, even for a billionth of a second, the damage would be catastrophic. Even to the Enterprise. But, nevertheless the Federation has utilized them, on Starfleet vessels.

If you don't believe me, look at this. The Star Trek Encyclopedia simply states that quantum torpedoes trigger a localized release. Now, the Encyclopedia has been used ONLY to identify the principle behind the Quantum Torpedoes.

PhysicsWeb.org -- "Today's cosmologists find Lambda to be just as objectionable, but for a different reason. All quantum fields possess a finite amount of "zero-point" vacuum energy as a result of the uncertainty principle. A naive estimate of the zero-point energy predicts a vacuum energy density that is 120 orders of magnitude greater than the energy density of all the other matter in the universe. If the vacuum energy density really is so enormous, it would cause an exponentially rapid expansion of the universe that would rip apart all the electrostatic and nuclear bonds that hold atoms and molecules together. There would be no galaxies, stars or energy as we know it."

www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/html/warp/possible.htm#vac -- "In simplistic terms it has been said that there is enough energy in the volume the size of a coffee cup to boil away Earth’s oceans." (Popular Science, May 2001, mentioned the 1 cc of space could tackle the whole boil the oceans thing)

There ya go.
As for...
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Isotons actually mean just tons, the prefix iso- meaning one. Therefor, Trek weapons have a yield of 200 tons. Using your logic, anyways.
One can only gape in awe at the awesome stupidity of the Federation... or Rick Berman. In that (the Photon Torpedoes magnitude) case I must agree, and I concede defeat THERE, AND ONLY THERE.
Beware the "L" hat...

Oddjob taught Luigi well...
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