Iraq Museum Plundered

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-04-15 04:52pm

Ted wrote:To be brutal, humans can reproduce. So what if they kill off a lot of people, they will be replaced. Artefacts cannot be replaced. It's the simple, brutal, truth.

Would you be so non-chalant if it was, say, your mother? People who are so callous toward human life sing a different tune when a mugger has a gun to the head of themselves or their loved ones.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-04-16 02:03am

Ted wrote:Tell me this then.

Why was the Ministry of Oil guarded, when the US was required by The Hague Convention of 1954 to protect the museum, yet failed to do so.

It was not intended by the Hague Convention, for troops to rush in to a city and immeadiatly set up lines around museums and other cultural sites and ignore actual strategic sites. Curiously enough, after the heavy fighting stopped, we started protecting these sites. The Ministry of Oil is a goverment institution and their facilities are goverment buildings that could and possibly do contain the equipment to be used as a CCC point, not to mention actual goverment documentation that would have been vital to us as intellegence. Pull your head out of your ass, this is a war zone, not a peace protest in SF.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-04-16 05:41am

Knife wrote:
Ted wrote:Tell me this then.

Why was the Ministry of Oil guarded, when the US was required by The Hague Convention of 1954 to protect the museum, yet failed to do so.
It was not intended by the Hague Convention, for troops to rush in to a city and immeadiatly set up lines around museums and other cultural sites and ignore actual strategic sites. Curiously enough, after the heavy fighting stopped, we started protecting these sites. The Ministry of Oil is a goverment institution and their facilities are goverment buildings that could and possibly do contain the equipment to be used as a CCC point, not to mention actual goverment documentation that would have been vital to us as intellegence. Pull your head out of your ass, this is a war zone, not a peace protest in SF.

Yes, but why then was the only government building in Baghdad that was protected from looting the Iraqi Oil Ministry? Cmon, who was it who has been saying that this war isn't about oil?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-04-16 11:43am

Yes, but why then was the only government building in Baghdad that was protected from looting the Iraqi Oil Ministry? Cmon, who was it who has been saying that this war isn't about oil?

I take it that only the MoO was taken? I'll poke around and see if I can come up with something. But I know that we seized the Ministry of Information, and a shit load of palaces. What got defended from looters and what didn't is something that I am not aware of with the notable exception of the museum.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-16 12:41pm

Knife wrote:I take it that only the MoO was taken?

The Marines grabbed Master of Ossus?

I'll poke around and see if I can come up with something. But I know that we seized the Ministry of Information, and a shit load of palaces. What got defended from looters and what didn't is something that I am not aware of with the notable exception of the museum.

I suppose I should chime in on this oil ministry thing with my $.02:

Like it or not, it does look bad and appear to confirm peoples' suspicions about the true motives for the war. However, the oil-drilling equipment has substantial objective value (more so than the museum; I have already made my opinion on this clear), and the restoration of Iraq's oil industry is necessary for postwar rebuilding. Therefore, I agree with the decision to protect the oil equipment ahead of the museum.

I would also like to point out that sabotage of oil equipment can lead to an ecological catastrophe, and the antiwar movement cited this as one of its primary concerns before the war, hence the critical importance of protecting it. How short our memories are ...

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-04-16 01:42pm

Don't a lot of Christian Fundamentalists use history to back up claims of the glorious past of Christianty, and Athiests use historical claims of the Crusades and other such events to smack them down? That's an useful appluation of history.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-16 01:44pm

Yogi wrote:Don't a lot of Christian Fundamentalists use history to back up claims of the glorious past of Christianty, and Athiests use historical claims of the Crusades and other such events to smack them down? That's an useful appluation of history.

I think one of the main arguments is whether these cultural artifacts are more precious than a human life. In my view certainly not.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-16 05:28pm

Yogi wrote:Don't a lot of Christian Fundamentalists use history to back up claims of the glorious past of Christianty, and Athiests use historical claims of the Crusades and other such events to smack them down? That's an useful appluation of history.

And how would the loss of some artifacts erase that knowledge, once documented?

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-04-16 06:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Yogi wrote:Don't a lot of Christian Fundamentalists use history to back up claims of the glorious past of Christianty, and Athiests use historical claims of the Crusades and other such events to smack them down? That's an useful appluation of history.
And how would the loss of some artifacts erase that knowledge, once documented?

If there is no Artifacts to backed the documents some might say the documents are faked.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-16 06:40pm

Montcalm wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Yogi wrote:Don't a lot of Christian Fundamentalists use history to back up claims of the glorious past of Christianty, and Athiests use historical claims of the Crusades and other such events to smack them down? That's an useful appluation of history.
And how would the loss of some artifacts erase that knowledge, once documented?
If there is no Artifacts to backed the documents some might say the documents are faked.

The only evidence of the Crusades is from documents already. It is ridiculous to say all of history will disappear if you lose some artifacts. It is even more ridiculous to say that priorities right here right now should be discarded or overruled in favour of such ephemeral concerns.