Unconditional Love

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-08-30 08:51pm

Edit sexally

Change to

Sexually

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-30 10:40pm

thread bump!

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-31 12:02am

Hmmmm...guess people are done talking about my (lack of) girlfriend problems

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2002-08-31 12:09am

I personally know of a woman whose son is a drug addict. He lies and steals from her and everyone he can con. Thanks to him, her savings are empty and she lives hand-to-mouth. Besides that, he is just an asshole who cannot treat anybody, including her, with the tiniest bit of respect or decency, even when he is trying to be "good." He has driven away all of her family, and yet, she still loves him. You might argue that such a love is sick, but it is about as unconditional as you can get.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-31 02:14pm

thread bump

Hendrake · Post by **Hendrake** » 2002-08-31 03:07pm

Uther wrote:I have a question:

Can you REALLY love something if it doesn't love you back? I mean can real true actual love exist in such a vacuum?

I think so. It is what I have done for almost an year. Perhaps I have not *REALLY* loved her, but since I am still hurting *hard* over it and it happened two yers ago...

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-31 04:12pm

Hendrake wrote:
Uther wrote:I have a question:

Can you REALLY love something if it doesn't love you back? I mean can real true actual love exist in such a vacuum?
I think so. It is what I have done for almost an year. Perhaps I have not *REALLY* loved her, but since I am still hurting *hard* over it and it happened two yers ago...

Hey, 5 years for me

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-31 04:14pm

Hmm. With 7 months I guess I'm at the very low end.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-31 04:17pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:On a side note

All love is unrequited.

Not in the "69" position.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-31 11:27pm

Thread bump

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-09-01 03:38am

Sorry for the long wait in reply.

MW: If we don't test something to its fullest, can we determine what its full strength is? I ask this in reference to the extreme example situation. Don't we test strength with the most strenuous weight to see what its max is?

The example I spoke of actually happened. Someone said that these things are rare. They are not. Terrible things happen all the time. I reference this terrible thing as it applies to my suspicion that unconditional love is not real.

I do not have kids. I accept that without any, I probably cannot know what any of you with children feel toward your children. I personally feel no affection for my brother's children, but that is outside the point.

Point: I concede. Unconditional love can exist between parents and their children.

Next question to parents:

Do you feel that your ability to love this way is the norm or are you outside the norm?

Is there an action that your child could perform or commit that would cause you to question your love for him/her? --note here I say question, not abandon.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-01 03:52pm

Thread bump

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-01 06:03pm

thread bump

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-01 10:12pm

Thread bump

Talk about my woman problems OR ELSE! WHEEEEE!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-02 12:04am

RayCav of ASVS wrote:Talk about my woman problems OR ELSE! WHEEEEE!

Okay, okay!! Here's your problem, Raycav: you think you can choose a woman. You pine over her, and when she doesn't return your affections, you either sink into a morass of ego-crushing self-doubt or you lash out and accuse her of being a bitch.

This is a common misconception that men have. But it's completely wrong. We don't choose them; they choose us.

A woman knows within 10 seconds of seeing you for the first time whether you fall into the category of "yes", "maybe", or "not in a million years". And while you may not like hearing it, the harsh reality is that if you fall into category #3, you will never claw your way out, so don't bother trying and move onto the next girl.

We think that we talk them into a date, but that just ain't so. They send us the mating signal, with the long look, the batting of the eyelashes, and the excessive giggling whenever we're near. If we fail to capitalize, we're wimps and they write us off. They might even make us work for it by playing "hard to get". But make no mistake: if you introduce yourself and you're not picking up any of these signals before you start your campaign, you have a better chance of teaching George W. Bush advanced calculus than you do of getting that date.

And one more thing: all that stuff girls say about how they don't care about looks is pure bullshit; solid pecs and washboard abs go a long way toward moving a guy into category #1 or #2, and any girl who says otherwise is lying to your face. Playing a musical instrument and having a nice car helps too. All of this shit only gets your foot in the door; you've still gotta bring the right stuff for the long term. But getting your foot in the door is the biggest trick, isn't it?

Mind you, if the only girl who sends you signals is the 240 pound girls' field hockey team captain with the slight moustache, then maybe you should try that "sink into a morass of ego-crushing self-doubt" thing I mentioned earlier

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2002-09-02 12:07am

RayCav of ASVS wrote:Thread bump

Talk about my woman problems OR ELSE! WHEEEEE!

Dude, find a brothel or somethin'.

Seriously, on the topic of unconditional love (and whether it exists), I guess you can still love someone no matter what they do, But that doesn't necessarily mean that you can forgive them for what they do.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-02 12:19am

Jack Lain wrote:MW: If we don't test something to its fullest, can we determine what its full strength is? I ask this in reference to the extreme example situation. Don't we test strength with the most strenuous weight to see what its max is?

Of course, but like the term "unbreakable", the term "unconditional" is generally not taken so literally. I already mentioned the example of "unbreakable" iron bars; there are reasonable limits to how literally one normally takes these terms. Your theory (that a lack of 100% extreme unconditional love means that all love is "fickle") is something of a false dilemma.

The example I spoke of actually happened. Someone said that these things are rare. They are not. Terrible things happen all the time. I reference this terrible thing as it applies to my suspicion that unconditional love is not real.

How can you seriously say that such things are not rare? Of course they're rare! In a world of 6 billion people they will happen, but that doesn't mean they're not rare. Do you know what the word "rare" means?

I do not have kids. I accept that without any, I probably cannot know what any of you with children feel toward your children. I personally feel no affection for my brother's children, but that is outside the point.

You should not project your own anomalous emotional coldness onto others; many people do feel great affection for their nephews and nieces, and have risked their lives for them in danger situations.

Point: I concede. Unconditional love can exist between parents and their children.

Next question to parents:

Do you feel that your ability to love this way is the norm or are you outside the norm?

It is the norm. It is the result of millions of years of instinct. You can bait a momma bear and it just might kill you. But if you threaten its offspring, you can kiss your ass goodbye, and all of that "stand as tall as you can and look her right in the eye" bullshit won't help you one bit.

Methinks you don't have the slightest understanding of what a (good) parent feels about his child. Your child is your legacy to the world. Your child is an extension of you. Your child is your immortality. You have raised your child, and you take responsibility for the things he does. When your child does something wrong, you may punish the child, but you will blame yourself.

Is there an action that your child could perform or commit that would cause you to question your love for him/her? --note here I say question, not abandon.

Mass-murder, maybe. But quite honestly, I would blame myself for not raising him right.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2002-09-02 12:31am

One problem I can see happening, despite my limited (read: zero) experience in dating and other matters of courtship, is that we males typically have next to nothing in the ability to pick up subtle body language. So the "They send us the mating signal, with the long look, the batting of the eyelashes, and the excessive giggling whenever we're near" tends to fly right over our heads.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-02 12:33am

Lord of the Farce wrote:One problem I can see happening, despite my limited (read: zero) experience in dating and other matters of courtship, is that we males typically have next to nothing in the ability to pick up subtle body language. So the "They send us the mating signal, with the long look, the batting of the eyelashes, and the excessive giggling whenever we're near" tends to fly right over our heads.

Turn off your targeting computer, Luke. Use the Force.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-02 01:03am

Darth Wong wrote:
RayCav of ASVS wrote:Talk about my woman problems OR ELSE! WHEEEEE!
Okay, okay!! Here's your problem, Raycav: you think you can choose a woman. You pine over her, and when she doesn't return your affections, you either sink into a morass of ego-crushing self-doubt or you lash out and accuse her of being a bitch.

This is a common misconception that men have. But it's completely wrong. We don't choose them; they choose us.

A woman knows within 10 seconds of seeing you for the first time whether you fall into the category of "yes", "maybe", or "not in a million years". And while you may not like hearing it, the harsh reality is that if you fall into category #3, you will never claw your way out, so don't bother trying and move onto the next girl.

We think that we talk them into a date, but that just ain't so. They send us the mating signal, with the long look, the batting of the eyelashes, and the excessive giggling whenever we're near. If we fail to capitalize, we're wimps and they write us off. They might even make us work for it by playing "hard to get". But make no mistake: if you introduce yourself and you're not picking up any of these signals before you start your campaign, you have a better chance of teaching George W. Bush advanced calculus than you do of getting that date.

And one more thing: all that stuff girls say about how they don't care about looks is pure bullshit; solid pecs and washboard abs go a long way toward moving a guy into category #1 or #2, and any girl who says otherwise is lying to your face. Playing a musical instrument and having a nice car helps too. All of this shit only gets your foot in the door; you've still gotta bring the right stuff for the long term. But getting your foot in the door is the biggest trick, isn't it?

Mind you, if the only girl who sends you signals is the 240 pound girls' field hockey team captain with the slight moustache, then maybe you should try that "sink into a morass of ego-crushing self-doubt" thing I mentioned earlier

Awwwwwww...

I don't have any musle mass at all, I don't play a musical instrument, and I have my mom's '87 Dodge Caravan. I'm an ASVS'er, goddamnit!

There is only one way for me to get a girl....

[Comrade Yuri mode]

Foolish Capitalist Westerner! Little do you realize that I, Comrade Yuri, am capable of getting any girl! With my incredable mind control powers, it will be ME who will be sending the signals!

Besides, I am far too busy with my plans for global domination to be concerned with trivial matters of the flesh!

[/Comrade Yuri mode]

BTW I lost the password for my Comrade Yuri moniker

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-02 09:53am

Thread Bump

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-09-02 10:53am

Jeez Raycav ....

I'm 20 and I've been single my whole life- doesn't exactly bother me ...

no wait it does AAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH...

ahem.

But seriously, what's to whinge about? Have you honestly made a serious effort to ask any of these girls out? If it's just sexual attraction and nothing more, why bother? Do you feel as though you NEED to have a woman, any woman, to validate yourself? If so, then you won't be happy. If you have low self-esteem getting a girl-friend WILL NOT FIX IT.

If you're not happy with yourself- wake up. You cannot fix such a thing with external factors. Trust me I know. I was frigging overweight in high school (all boys, private) and when I got into first year uni I realized that I was among the world now and I was a damn gross specimen of a guy. Self-esteem went through floor.

Then I lost all the weight, but I still felt bad. I cut the bullshit though and got a better opinion of myself. Why? A girl. THE girl. I fell for her badly and she basically flat out told me that she liked me as well, but because I despised myself so much I couldn't bring myself to ask her out till it was too late and some other lucky individual beat me to it. More than a year of pain from that. Over it. Moving on. Sure I'm still single and I've never had a g/f, and there's probably some guys reading this and sniggering; but i dont give a shit, because i dont hate myself anymore, and i dont have a low opinion of myself.

Trust me, if you have a low opinion of yourself girls will smell it a mile off and write you off. Get out of the doldrums!

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-02 11:05am

Vympel wrote:Jeez Raycav ....

I'm 20 and I've been single my whole life- doesn't exactly bother me ...

no wait it does AAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH...

ahem.

But seriously, what's to whinge about? Have you honestly made a serious effort to ask any of these girls out? If it's just sexual attraction and nothing more, why bother? Do you feel as though you NEED to have a woman, any woman, to validate yourself? If so, then you won't be happy. If you have low self-esteem getting a girl-friend WILL NOT FIX IT.

If you're not happy with yourself- wake up. You cannot fix such a thing with external factors. Trust me I know. I was frigging overweight in high school (all boys, private) and when I got into first year uni I realized that I was among the world now and I was a damn gross specimen of a guy. Self-esteem went through floor.

Then I lost all the weight, but I still felt bad. I cut the bullshit though and got a better opinion of myself. Why? A girl. THE girl. I fell for her badly and she basically flat out told me that she liked me as well, but because I despised myself so much I couldn't bring myself to ask her out till it was too late and some other lucky individual beat me to it. More than a year of pain from that. Over it. Moving on. Sure I'm still single and I've never had a g/f, and there's probably some guys reading this and sniggering; but i dont give a shit, because i dont hate myself anymore, and i dont have a low opinion of myself.

Trust me, if you have a low opinion of yourself girls will smell it a mile off and write you off. Get out of the doldrums!

So what you're saying is, first I need good self esteem, then a girlfriend? Do I even need a girlfriend at all?

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-02 11:54am

Thread bump!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-02 12:26pm

RayCav of ASVS wrote:So what you're saying is, first I need good self esteem, then a girlfriend? Do I even need a girlfriend at all?

Vympel's right; part of a girl's determination of whether you fall into the "yes", "maybe", or "no" categories is your aura of confidence. If you don't have any, you're a "no".

As for "needing" a girlfriend for your self-esteem, Vympel's both right and wrong on this one. You need to have strong self-esteem and self-confidence first, but a girlfriend can build your self-confidence further (mind you, she can also tear it down if she's a nasty, critical bitch, but I'm hoping you have better taste than that).