Children and sex

[haas mark]

They may be referring to legal issues rather than moral ones here, koji.

In one sense, koji is right.. how does pornography traumatize a child more than war? [shrugs]

[haas mark]

When should you teach your kids about it? Anyone here ever been real liberal and taught them the truth right from the beginning, I know a woman who did. Kids can understand masturbation, a lot of them even do it, but not, I guess, being attracted to the opposite sex yet.

My parents never taught me about it. There is this little thing we call public schooling that taught everything about it. In 4th grade, they had us do this "family life" thing in which they explained sex ~ IN SCHOOL. Then there are the high school health classes, explaining SAFE SEX ~ IN SCHOOL.

[kojikun]

somehow i doubt legal issues are the problem here. i mean, fuck, ein uses pot and thats more illegal then porn and underage kids so obviously he doesnt fucking care. shit, he talks about inviting people from theboard to NO so they can buy the shit! its not legality at all.

[haas mark]

Give your kid a playboy or two and a playgirl or two. neither of them have actual sex, so its just a slight bit more revealing then da Vinci or Michelangelo. That along with the sciency stuff and the kids will know exactly whats what.

Awful idea there kojikun, the images and ideas conveyed in your average Playboy or Playgirl offers up only idealized and HIGHLY styalized sexual images that have little or nothing to do with the real world of human intamacy.

So then GI Joes and Barbies are a better way to go about it?

Besides.. did koji state an age in there?

[haas mark]

ok, maybe no playboy, amateur porn, then its REALISTIC.

who wants to donate to the collection? >D

Now the porn I can disagree with...

[haas mark]

Okay, my stance on the porn (let's try this again... [kills servers])

There are, indeed, porn shots in magazines that might be considered tasteful (as horny as they make you). However, I know there are many gay mags that show really hardcore stuff, and it's not the best thing to show a kid. You must realize, though, that these types of shots ARE possible, and wouldn't be more disturbing than, say, "David" or "Venus DeMilo."

[Stormbringer]

Kojikun, are you seriously arguing that it's okay to show a kid hardcore porn?

And another mark for the dirty fucking pedophilic monster of SD.net.

[haas mark]

PsygnisFive: i swear, when did a dildo up the ass and cum on your face become somehow more inherently damaging then someones head being blown open by a kalashnikov?!
Moon Beam Burns: it's not, but that's not the point, given the thread.
Moon Beam Burns: You're trying to imply it's NOT damaging..
PsygnisFive: seriously, does the act of holding ones dick cause it to emit "fuck up rays" into the brains of these kids?
Moon Beam Burns: Depending on family history, I am sure it could.
PsygnisFive: it ISNT damaging, theyve done studies and said the only harm done by porn is papercuts
PsygnisFive: well, if youre a fucking psycho christianazi then yeah itll fuck up the kid
Moon Beam Burns: What if something happened and a child was traumatized by, say, rape?
PsygnisFive: true, but you cant cater to every situation. and if youre teaching your kid about sex, obviously youre not a psycho child molester
Moon Beam Burns: I know.. but then, sometimes people ARE the child molesters..
PsygnisFive: yeah, and there are more murderers the child molesters, BAN VIOLENT VIDEOGAMES
Moon Beam Burns: So what? What the fuck does that have to do with the situation?
PsygnisFive: its not the porn that hurts kids, its stupid shitty parents. showing kids porn isnt going to harm them
PsygnisFive signed on at 6:22:07 PM.
PsygnisFive: ramming your dick up a 4 year olds ass till he bleeds hurts kids
Moon Beam Burns: It's not going to physically harm them, no, but what about emotionally? Mentally?
Moon Beam Burns: GOt any cited case studies?
PsygnisFive: tell me, what does a dick do to a childs brain?
PsygnisFive: how does it hurt a child?
Moon Beam Burns: Emotional trauma can happen.. I wouldn't know how, if it's on a piece of paper, but I am sure it can happen. Hell, where the fuck do you think we get phobias from?
PsygnisFive: emotional trauma happens when theres EMOTION
PsygnisFive: a picture of a guys dick isnt an emotional experience
PsygnisFive: we get phobias from beign a kid and accidentally having a spider fall on our faces
Moon Beam Burns: not necessarily.. knowing kids, it can lead to anything.. knowing parents, it can be much wors.e
Moon Beam Burns: no.. that's not always how phobias work.
PsygnisFive: thats how most phobias work
Moon Beam Burns: Why are people homophobic? Because of religion.
PsygnisFive: yeah, but were not talking about people who wouldnt do it
PsygnisFive: were saying "whats the best way to teach a kid about sex"
Moon Beam Burns: Then why do you care so much? If people wouldn't do it, then it's a non-sequitur
PsygnisFive: not "whats the best way to teach psycho nazi kids about sex"
PsygnisFive: http://www.scireview.de/efs/ the ages studied were usually over 15, mainly because noones studied younger kids (legality issues, you know)
Moon Beam Burns: If they've not studied the younger kids, then your argument is nilled.
PsygnisFive: juveniles:
no empirical evidence for any harm not enough results, experiments would be judged unethical
Moon Beam Burns: *nulled
PsygnisFive: its not nulled tho, because kids DO look at porn
PsygnisFive: its just LEGALLY impossible for an official study to be performed
Moon Beam Burns: But the STUDIES are nulled, and since you're using the STUDIES to back up your argument, your ARGUMENT is nulled...
PsygnisFive: but my arguement ISNT nulled
Moon Beam Burns: Yes, it is.
Moon Beam Burns: Transitiopnally.
Moon Beam Burns: *Transitionally.
PsygnisFive: because i was just giving you an example how theyve shown that, atleast in 15 year olds, porn doesnt harm them
PsygnisFive: but when you KNOW that people,. your FRIENDS, have been looking at porn since a young age, and are not fucked up emotionally, you DO have 'experimental evidence'
Moon Beam Burns: Maybe so, but you can attest that younger kids aren't affected by going off of 15 year olds - 15 year olds are hitting puberty (why do you think they studied them?)
Moon Beam Burns: Now, then, you're in the right field, but you haven't covered all bases.
PsygnisFive: true enough, but even /logically/ its impossible for a picture to harm a kid
Moon Beam Burns: You can't just assume NO kids are affected because of a small handful not being affected
PsygnisFive: a picture of a dick and a sculpture of one have the exact same effect on kids
Moon Beam Burns: It is ~ if adults can get addicted to porn, then kids can be affected by it, too
Moon Beam Burns: Besides, how often do you see a picture of "David" in an elementary school?
Moon Beam Burns: Or a middle school, for that matter?
PsygnisFive: well if theyre going to get addicted as kids theyre going to get addicted as adults so youre already fucked
PsygnisFive: you see pictures very often
PsygnisFive: or what about this
Moon Beam Burns: No, you don't.
PsygnisFive: listen
Moon Beam Burns: I am
PsygnisFive: if nudity hurts kids, then why doesnt it hurt kids when they see their parents nude, either in the shower, or at public pools when theyre changing, or things like that?
PsygnisFive: or when they bathe with their brothers or sisters
PsygnisFive: or when theyre nursing
PsygnisFive: or when they fucking pop out of a vagina bigger then their heads
PsygnisFive: shit, i know i'd be traumatized if i had a vagina stretching around my skull
PsygnisFive: but the thing is, nudity DOESNT harm kids
PsygnisFive: it never HAS
PsygnisFive: unless the kid is already fucked up
Moon Beam Burns: How often does one retain childhood memories that far back? NEVER.
PsygnisFive: it doesnt matter, psychological issues dont require memories
Moon Beam Burns: Yes, they do
PsygnisFive: no they dont
Moon Beam Burns: At least, a lot of the time, they do
PsygnisFive: thats for abusive traumas
Moon Beam Burns: Psychological problems COME from memories..
Moon Beam Burns: physiological problems do not
PsygnisFive: we're not talking about a kid being beaten, were talking about a kid seeing a dick, which he probably doesnt recognize
PsygnisFive: psychological problems come not from memories but from conflicting emotions
Moon Beam Burns: or a cunt, for that matter.
PsygnisFive: yes
Moon Beam Burns: But the point is this ~
Moon Beam Burns: rape victims are traumatized because they remember the experience
Moon Beam Burns: so would it be with yound children
PsygnisFive: the POINT is that kids dont have ANY association with sex before theyre introduced to it!
Moon Beam Burns: So?
Moon Beam Burns: You're going round and round in your argument, yet you can't provide anything worth bringing up
PsygnisFive: You need an association, you cant just say that theyll look at porn and be traumatized from then on
PsygnisFive: you cant even provide a logical explanation why porn would damage a kid!
Moon Beam Burns: You can't say someone will or will not be traumatized from rape, can you?
PsygnisFive: i can, actually
Moon Beam Burns: You can't provide anything that can't be rebuked
PsygnisFive: and you cant provide _anything_, rebukable or not
Moon Beam Burns: Just rebukes to your invalid arguments
PsygnisFive: kids DO see nudity, every time they bathe, why is their own dick somehow less traumatizing then someone elses?
PsygnisFive: how is a PICTURE traumatizing to a kid who isnt ALREADY traumatized?
PsygnisFive: when did you first see a nude picture, Ver
Moon Beam Burns: Take a look at goatse. Or maybe you'd like that? And as for seeing porn.. basically all you have to do is walk in on your grandparents to be traumatized by it ~ and as for when I first saw a nude pic, I don't remember, nor do I care.. But I don't have the greatest long-term memory.. I remember trivia better than stuff that applies.
Moon Beam Burns: As for traumatizing someone that isn't traumatized, how about this ~
Moon Beam Burns: How can a fall off a gate traumatized by someone who isn't already traumatized by a similar experience?
PsygnisFive: no, how does a PICTURE traumatize them, not how does drop kicking them traumatize them, dumbass
PsygnisFive: theres a major difference
Moon Beam Burns: I didn't say dropkicking
Moon Beam Burns: I said falling off of a gate
PsygnisFive: (i was typing that before you IMed that ) that TRAUMATIZES the kid because it HURTS
PsygnisFive: and because falling scares him
PsygnisFive: but that DOESNT traumatize the kid, because kisd fall and get hurt every fucking day
Moon Beam Burns: So? How is this ~ I can't go on chain link fences.. or over freeways.. sometimes I get scared in cars.. and I never have fallen off a gate. I have a social anxiety, and I don't know why. How do you get a fear of being around too many people, koji?
PsygnisFive: five seconds and an ice cream cone later the kids back out there getting hurt
PsygnisFive: adverse chemical reactions from being around them. that, or your serotonin response/production is lower then it should be
Moon Beam Burns: prove
PsygnisFive: Take a few CT scans or something, or pop a prozac or two, or an Atavan or that new purple pill or something.
PsygnisFive: mental problems dont just pop up out of nowhere, they have to have a CAUSE
PsygnisFive: and the cause has to actually be real, it cant be assbackwards shit like "porn hurts kids"
Moon Beam Burns: Prozac would be too much for me.. In any case, what happens when I am around too many people is my heart races, and I almost start hyperventilating.
PsygnisFive: thats most likely not a situational traumatization (or maybe your mother made you waltz around in public naked once when you were young and you felt betrayed and hurt)
PsygnisFive: its probably a neurological/chemical issue
PsygnisFive: but you cant get those things from porn, because its a picture, not a situation
Moon Beam Burns: Maybe so.. but it's taking a lot not to say "Fuck you"
PsygnisFive: eh?
Moon Beam Burns: Holding a picture is a situation
PsygnisFive: no, not the same kind of situation
Moon Beam Burns: It is a situation
Moon Beam Burns: It doesn't matter.
PsygnisFive: the kid isnt actually involved in an interaction or something that causes physical or psychological change
PsygnisFive: it DOES matter!
Moon Beam Burns: A social situation is not the same type of situation as falling off a gate
PsygnisFive: you need some actual occurance to DO DAMAGE!
PsygnisFive: psychological problems DONT COME FROM NOWHERE
PsygnisFive: a kid doesnt just see a nude and all the sudden is a fucking mess
PsygnisFive: a kid is RAPED and HURT and THEN the sight of the same thing that hurt him causes pain
Moon Beam Burns: Okay, then, what about hardcore porn?
PsygnisFive: such as?
PsygnisFive: two people fucking? what?
PsygnisFive: Bukkake?
Moon Beam Burns: I don't know what Bukkake is, to tell you the truth
PsygnisFive: bukkake is when a person gets cum all over their face
Moon Beam Burns: Ah
Moon Beam Burns: [shudders] That's just gross.
PsygnisFive: tell me how seeing two people bump against one another is going to make a kids head explode
PsygnisFive: tell me whats causing it
Moon Beam Burns: Overload input?
PsygnisFive: overloading what?!
PsygnisFive: the pleasure centers?
PsygnisFive: the kid doesnt have any response to it, so theres nothing to overload!
PsygnisFive: brb phude
Moon Beam Burns: It's too much.. besides, SOME people don't like bukkake..
Moon Beam Burns: Like myself
PsygnisFive: dont IM, i dont need paragraph to respond to
Moon Beam Burns: ok
PsygnisFive: (btw, you already have associations to whether lots of cum is good or not, because of experience with cum, an 8 year old doesnt)
PsygnisFive: bye now
Moon Beam Burns: byee
Moon Beam Burns: And I don't watch porn, by the way.

To be continued....

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

somehow i doubt legal issues are the problem here. i mean, fuck, ein uses pot and thats more illegal then porn and underage kids so obviously he doesnt fucking care. shit, he talks about inviting people from theboard to NO so they can buy the shit! its not legality at all.

(Flamebait)You got a problem with that? Cuz I have a chip on each shoulder the size of California! Face it: POT IS NOT MORALLY WRONG! PEDOPHILIA IS!!!(/Flamebait)

Ahh fuck it I'm not interested in starting shit...

*starts his Quake server browser*

It's fucking Railgun Time!!

[haas mark]

somehow i doubt legal issues are the problem here. i mean, fuck, ein uses pot and thats more illegal then porn and underage kids so obviously he doesnt fucking care. shit, he talks about inviting people from theboard to NO so they can buy the shit! its not legality at all.

(Flamebait)You got a problem with that? Cuz I have a chip on each shoulder the size of California! Face it: POT IS NOT MORALLY WRONG! PEDOPHILIA IS!!!(/Flamebait)

Ahh fuck it I'm not interested in starting shit...

*starts his Quake server browser*

It's fucking Railgun Time!!

I am so going to get flack for defending some of koji's points...

showing kids porn != pedophilia

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Okay, my stance on the porn (let's try this again... [kills servers])

There are, indeed, porn shots in magazines that might be considered tasteful (as horny as they make you). However, I know there are many gay mags that show really hardcore stuff, and it's not the best thing to show a kid. You must realize, though, that these types of shots ARE possible, and wouldn't be more disturbing than, say, "David" or "Venus DeMilo."

You have my full agreement on that, but I think Koji was thinking 'hardcore'.

[kojikun]

(Flamebait)You got a problem with that? Cuz I have a chip on each shoulder the size of California! Face it: POT IS NOT MORALLY WRONG! PEDOPHILIA IS!!!(/Flamebait)

Uh, when is showing kids porn the same thing as fucking kids? Its not, you psycho bitch.

And no i wasnt thinking hardcore, because i fucking said AMATEUR NUDES SO YOURE SHOWING THE KIDS REAL PEOPLE YOU FUCKING RETARDED OVERREACTING MORON

[haas mark]

Okay, my stance on the porn (let's try this again... [kills servers])

There are, indeed, porn shots in magazines that might be considered tasteful (as horny as they make you). However, I know there are many gay mags that show really hardcore stuff, and it's not the best thing to show a kid. You must realize, though, that these types of shots ARE possible, and wouldn't be more disturbing than, say, "David" or "Venus DeMilo."

You have my full agreement on that, but I think Koji was thinking 'hardcore'.

Maybe, maybe not.. But even so, moralistically.. (given our convo) is there a way to psychologically impair a child by showing him/her softcore porn?

[kojikun]

to psychologically impair a child

A child who hasnt been fucked with by either stupid religious morals or by rape.

Showing a christian kid or a rape victim kid nudes will OBVIOUSLY mess with his brain ebcause its a reaction to something already i their minds.

[haas mark]

to psychologically impair a child

A child who hasnt been fucked with by either stupid religious morals or by rape.

Showing a christian kid or a rape victim kid nudes will OBVIOUSLY mess with his brain ebcause its a reaction to something already i their minds.

Showing ANY kid that has had this happen will fuck with their minds. Though a lot of our morals are based on Christian influences, you can't generalize like that, koji.

[kojikun]

Showing ANY kid that has had this happen will fuck with their minds.

thats what I said. but we're assuming the kid hasnt been abused.

i mean, what kind of retarded parent would give a sex ed class to his kid right after raping him? none.

[haas mark]

Showing ANY kid that has had this happen will fuck with their minds.

thats what I said. but we're assuming the kid hasnt been abused.

i mean, what kind of retarded parent would give a sex ed class to his kid right after raping him? none.

Even so, you can't generalize Christian kids like that ~ hell, a lot of the kids that "corrupt" public schools are Christians..

[kojikun]

i never said christian kids in the post

[haas mark]

i never said christian kids in the post

Showing a christian kid...

*ahem*

[kojikun]

oh in the original. hah true enough. but the one you quoted had no christian anything in it.

[kojikun]

ok, we should shut up, since this has turned into a public PM session.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Okay, my stance on the porn (let's try this again... [kills servers])

There are, indeed, porn shots in magazines that might be considered tasteful (as horny as they make you). However, I know there are many gay mags that show really hardcore stuff, and it's not the best thing to show a kid. You must realize, though, that these types of shots ARE possible, and wouldn't be more disturbing than, say, "David" or "Venus DeMilo."

You have my full agreement on that, but I think Koji was thinking 'hardcore'.

He said that'd probably be a bad idea. As usual you overreacted and tried to rally everyone behind your on some manic immature "anti-troll" crusade.

Knock that the fuck off.

[kojikun]

He said that'd probably be a bad idea. As usual you overreacted and tried to rally everyone behind your on some manic immature "anti-troll" crusade.

Knock that the fuck off.

I love you..

[Stormbringer]

Kojikun, what is your position? Because as near as I can tell you're advocating showing hardcore porn to kids (as in less then 13 or so). Please clarify your position because if you're on shaky ground here.

[Queeb Salaron]

Okay, my stance on the porn (let's try this again... [kills servers])

There are, indeed, porn shots in magazines that might be considered tasteful (as horny as they make you). However, I know there are many gay mags that show really hardcore stuff, and it's not the best thing to show a kid. You must realize, though, that these types of shots ARE possible, and wouldn't be more disturbing than, say, "David" or "Venus DeMilo."

PLEASE tell me you didn't just link the statue of David with really mild porn...

Kids aren't disturbed by porn. They're intrigued by it, some of them, and others repulsed. Like adults. The only thing that would mentally harm a child is if he were forcibly subjected to porn and learned to associate it with some kind of negative stimulus.

The argument that porn harms children submits to the false cause fallacy. The same is true for serial murderers like Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy had a collection of violent snuff porn. But it was not the snuff porn that made him rape dead bodies. Rather, because of his desire to defile the bodies, he became attracted to snuff porn. The same parallel can be drawn for children: Children intrigued by sex will be naturally intrigued by pornography. It is not the pornography that leads to their fascination with sex, but rather their predisposition towards sexual curiosity that leads to their fascination towards porno.