How do you define a god?

[Shinova]

Q could normally be considered a god, but obviously his race could lose their powers (episode where fem-Q loses her powers aboard Voyager), and I recall that he gets punched once.

So, how high-up does a sentient being have to be in order to be considered a true god?

[SirNitram]

A god is a creature whose power comes from the fact it is worshipped. This may be a strange definition, but it keeps in line with old Roman mythology, which I find most suitable.

[Johonebesus]

It depends on which cultural model you're using. For most pagans, Q would be an unusually powerful god. Both Greek and German gods could be killed. Q is immortal (what I call a class 2 immortal, in that he does not age but can be killed by his fellows), and he displays extraordinary power. About the only way to be more god-like would be to be truly omniscient and omnipotent (and clearly Q is neither, despite his boasts), and to be the creator of the universe and the source of all life, in other words, to be YHWH or Allah or Brahman or whatever you want to call Him.

Personally, I would consider the most god-like quality to be the ability to create a living soul, but since in the Trek universe souls don't seem to exist, and Data is considered a living being but was made by a man, I do not believe that a god can exist in the Trek universe.

[Shinova]

I think I should clarify by saying that when I say god, without the capital G, I mean a real-world god, not a religious one.

No duh, we haven't seen anything even close to god status, but leave religion out of this and focus on what a true god should be able to do to be considered a true god.


And once again, religion had NOTHING to do with this topic when I thought it up.

[Johonebesus]

I wasn't trying to bring Religion into it, but all gods have to do with religion, and different religions have different ideas of gods. Q is more than enough to fit the definition of a god to an ancient pagan, but not nearly god-like enough for a Judeo-Christian definition, that's all I meant. I don't know of any god that has ever existed outside of a religious context, so I don't know how to discuss "a real-world god, not a religious one." I guess that a being would have to be able to manipulate matter and energy, break or change the laws of physics, and create sentient life, all by the act of his will alone without the aid of artificial technology. But even then, that does not really fit my notion of a god. Unless a being could prove to me that it is God, I would not worship it, even if it could change reality and kill me with a mere thought. But then I am a very stubborn person. In some cultures, the fellow from the second pilot, the one who developed psychic powers when the Enterprise tried to break the galactic barrier, would be a god. It all depends on who is observing the creature. Clearly Picard does not think of Q as a god, while Kira believes the wormhole aliens are gods, despite the fact that they seem to be weaker than Q.

[Peregrin Toker]

I define the tenets of godhood, in the typical mythological sense, as:

1) Immortality. This takes different forms. Some mythical gods (namely, the nordic ones) could die in war, but they never died of old age. In any case, immortality and immunity to aging is one of those things which usually set gods apart from mortals.

2) Supernatural powers. These may vary, but usually gods have some sort of abilities which defy laws of physics.

3) Worship. You're not truly a god if nobody considers you a god.

However, there could be other definitions. For example, take Yog-Sothoth of H.P. Lovecraft's stories. He is usually invoked rather than worshipped, and too "vague" a being to be called "immortal" - but Yog-Sothoth is some sort of - shall we say - ethereal being who mainly is a god because he is one with the time-space continuum.

[Jawawithagun]

I define the tenets of godhood, in the typical mythological sense, as:

1) Immortality. This takes different forms. Some mythical gods (namely, the nordic ones) could die in war, but they never died of old age. In any case, immortality and immunity to aging is one of those things which usually set gods apart from mortals.

2) Supernatural powers. These may vary, but usually gods have some sort of abilities which defy laws of physics.

3) Worship. You're not truly a god if nobody considers you a god.

However, there could be other definitions. For example, take Yog-Sothoth of H.P. Lovecraft's stories. He is usually invoked rather than worshipped, and too "vague" a being to be called "immortal" - but Yog-Sothoth is some sort of - shall we say - ethereal being who mainly is a god because he is one with the time-space continuum.

And even those have their limitations ... Greek and Norse gods needed to regularly eat special food (a brand of apples sold nowhere around - I looked) to stay young and immortal. And often they gained their supernatural powers only from the tools they worked with.
Or look at General Kwan, the chinese God of War and Poetry, having been a living human before becoming a god after his death.

[Stormbringer]

I think that the best possible test for a god in real life would be the ability to break the laws of physics at will. Simple enough.

[Queeb Salaron]

A god is a creature whose power comes from the fact it is worshipped. This may be a strange definition, but it keeps in line with old Roman mythology, which I find most suitable.

The first 14 pages of Mists of Avalon describe this theory best. There is a metaphoical island where all the deities live. At the time of King Arthur, all the different deities of the world lived together in harmony on this island, because the people believed in two things: One, that the deities existed, and two that they could coexist peacefully. But that was starting to change, because for the first time an exclusivist religion (Christianity) was becoming widely accepted. Because people believed that there was only ONE God, that became (pardon the paradox) the divine reality. Essentiall, God took over the island and kicked everyone else out.

[jegs2]

Q could normally be considered a god, but obviously his race could lose their powers (episode where fem-Q loses her powers aboard Voyager), and I recall that he gets punched once.

So, how high-up does a sentient being have to be in order to be considered a true god?

The God I serve is scientifically undefinable in any sense of which I'm aware. He is eternal, having no beginning and no end, and he is omnipotent and omnipresent.

[Peregrin Toker]

And even those have their limitations ... Greek and Norse gods needed to regularly eat special food (a brand of apples sold nowhere around - I looked) to stay young and immortal.

They still had supernatural powers and were somewhat worshipped (but still fictional and unobservable) entities. So they were gods of a kind.

And often they gained their supernatural powers only from the tools they worked with.

You're thinking of Thor and his hammer, aren't you?

Or look at General Kwan, the chinese God of War and Poetry, having been a living human before becoming a god after his death.

Some mortals have been attributed divine characteristics, regardless of whether they had them. Such as the aforementioned General Kwan, and of course, Jesus.

[SirNitram]

A god is a creature whose power comes from the fact it is worshipped. This may be a strange definition, but it keeps in line with old Roman mythology, which I find most suitable.

The first 14 pages of Mists of Avalon describe this theory best. There is a metaphoical island where all the deities live. At the time of King Arthur, all the different deities of the world lived together in harmony on this island, because the people believed in two things: One, that the deities existed, and two that they could coexist peacefully. But that was starting to change, because for the first time an exclusivist religion (Christianity) was becoming widely accepted. Because people believed that there was only ONE God, that became (pardon the paradox) the divine reality. Essentiall, God took over the island and kicked everyone else out.

Yep, though I originally encountered the theory in Terry Prachett's Small Gods.

Interestingly, there's even a passage in the Bible, at least in the copy in this house, that supports this theory. God tells one of his prophets he will famine the gods, and lo and behold, no one believes in them anymore...

Of course, the Romans seemed to have a decent grasp of this idea, with Potes and Lartes.

[Ted C]

I see two defining characteristics for a god (small "g"):

1) The ability to perform feats that greatly exceed the limitations of their followers.

2) An interest in assisting/guiding/nurturing those followers.

Thus, my dogs might easily regard me as a god.

[Exonerate]

I'm thinking of supernatural powers, or at the very least, residing in a different dimension we cannot observe...

[Morat]

I think a good acid test for any definition of a "god" is this: Would the Deists' god be considered a god under that definition?

Imagine a true omnipotent and omniscient entity. IMHO, that entity is a god, no matter what other properties that entity might have. I don't see the logic behind using a definition that requires that the entity be worshipped or that it guide its followers.

I would define a god as any entity with the intrinsic ability to alter physical constants and/or the ability to circumvent physical law. So, an entity that can measure both momentum and position exactly would be considered a god (because it can break the laws of physics). The ability to break physical law must also be intrinsic. Merely having a machine that can exactly measure both momentum and position would not make you a god. I would also add that such an entity must possess intelligence. A non-intelligent machine capable of creating universes shouldn't be considered a god, IMHO.

[Kuroneko]

The ability to break physical law must also be intrinsic. Merely having a machine that can exactly measure both momentum and position would not make you a god.

Any being with the ability to build such a machine should be considered a god, simply because in the process of building it, physical laws must be broken. Not necessarily the user of such a machine, then, but the being that is its creator would be a god (and, by extention, all those with the ability), even if the machine does some thing that is not intrinsic to the being.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

Or look at General Kwan, the chinese God of War and Poetry, having been a living human before becoming a god after his death.

Some mortals have been attributed divine characteristics, regardless of whether they had them. Such as the aforementioned General Kwan, and of course, Jesus.

In China the Taoism-Buddhism-Folklore hybrid religion gods have different levels and different origins, some gods are gods just because they've accomplished some level of Tao, which gives them supernatural powers; some gods are just people who had some good doings or great attributions and after they died they were either upgraded by the gods or dubbed by the Emperor (yes, Emperors dub gods).

Even some recent people like a burglar and a thief and even Chiang Kai-shek have their temples.

[Morat]

Any being with the ability to build such a machine should be considered a god, simply because in the process of building it, physical laws must be broken. Not necessarily the user of such a machine, then, but the being that is its creator would be a god (and, by extention, all those with the ability), even if the machine does some thing that is not intrinsic to the being.

It sounds like you're just adding an unneccessary level of complexity to the definition. If building of the machine requires that physical law be broken, then the builder is a god by my definition.

[Peregrin Toker]

or dubbed by the Emperor (yes, Emperors dub gods).

I do know that the chinese (and roman) emperors were worshipped as gods, so they had permission to "commission gods." However, in my mind there's a difference between being considered a god and actually being a god.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

or dubbed by the Emperor (yes, Emperors dub gods).

I do know that the chinese (and roman) emperors were worshipped as gods, so they had permission to "commission gods." However, in my mind there's a difference between being considered a god and actually being a god.

AFAIK only those very very ancient ones in China before there were dynasties were considered gods, the later ones although had 'dragon bodies' but it seems that no one took a damn about that, IMHO the emperors were just enjoying too much power dubbing gods.

There are some legends of civilians who later overthrew the emperors and became rulers themselves having ridiculous power/birthmarks like making everyTHING obey, or walking with wierd clouds above, sleeping and becoming a dragon..etc but they're not considered gods.