so, it appears the iraq war is over

[Enforcer Talen]

any thots if syria is next? according to time (apr 21) and usa today (apr 16), they have been harboring iraqi leaders, possess chemical weapons, violating un sanctions by buying iraqi oil illegally, support hizballah and sent soldiers and some supplies to aid the iraqi regime. will they be the next target in the war on terrorism, and would this be a good or bad thing?

[Sriad]

any thots if syria is next? according to time (apr 21) and usa today (apr 16), they have been harboring iraqi leaders, possess chemical weapons, violating un sanctions by buying iraqi oil illegally, support hizballah and sent soldiers and some supplies to aid the iraqi regime. will they be the next target in the war on terrorism, and would this be a good or bad thing?

...because if we STOPPED going to war with people, poor Ashcroft and co would have to give up their lovely "war-time" powers/

Yea, I'm thinking it would be the second kind of thing.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

It's over?

Since when? Why? How?

[Vympel]

It's very early- but winning the peace looks like an utter fuckup job at this point. See breaking news thread.

[Tsyroc]

It's very early- but winning the peace looks like an utter fuckup job at this point. See breaking news thread.

Agreed, "a total fuckup" may actually be an understatement.

[Next of Kin]

I think the U.S. is still going to need to prop up their new puppet regime and put down any resitance from Kurds, Shi'as or Sunnis that wish to seperate or attempt to seize power in some sort of way.

[Vympel]

I think the U.S. is still going to need to prop up their new puppet regime and put down any resitance from Kurds, Shi'as or Sunnis that wish to seperate or attempt to seize power in some sort of way.

Yeah, one of the Shi'ite protest cries in the 20,000 strong one at Nasiriyah was "No to USA, No to Saddam, yes to freedom, yes to Islam"

Or something.

[Gandalf]

How can they illegally buy Iraqi oil?

[Vympel]

How can they illegally buy Iraqi oil?

*shrug*

Everything was supposed to be through the UN 'oil for food' program, maybe that's what he meant.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I think the U.S. is still going to need to prop up their new puppet regime and put down any resitance from Kurds, Shi'as or Sunnis that wish to seperate or attempt to seize power in some sort of way.

Yeah, one of the Shi'ite protest cries in the 20,000 strong one at Nasiriyah was "No to USA, No to Saddam, yes to freedom, yes to Islam"

Or something.

I guess Britain better take over!

[Vympel]

I guess Britain better take over!

Britain isn't Islamic

Iran though ....

[Peregrin Toker]

I thought North Korea was next on the list??

[Enforcer Talen]

but north korea is so far *away*. . . syria and iran are *right next door*. . .

[Sea Skimmer]

How can they illegally buy Iraqi oil?

All Iraqi oil export must go through the oil for food program so the money can be supervised and controlled. However since Iraq's boarders couldn't be watched very well quite a lot was simply driven into Syria and Jordan via truck.

Sea born smuggling also occurred, but only on a limited scale. To do so small tankers would travel through Iranian waters and then sell there cargos to whoever would buy in the gulf of Oman.

[Enforcer Talen]

and there was a syrian/iraqi oiline that was shutdown recently.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I thought North Korea was next on the list??

When they say Syria's next, they might mean in terms of having military action taken against them. Military action against North Korea would porbably result in them using thier nuclear weapons against neighboring countries.

As for Syria, I don't think we should go to war with them, in my personal opinion, unless they're hiding terrorist leaders on the level of bin Laden or posessing WMDs.

[Anarchist Bunny]

We shut down a pipeline that could funnel 200,000(I think, 200 something) gallons of oil a day and contributed to 1 billion worth of sales over the 3 years it was open.

[Enforcer Talen]

I thought North Korea was next on the list??

When they say Syria's next, they might mean in terms of having military action taken against them. Military action against North Korea would porbably result in them using thier nuclear weapons against neighboring countries.

As for Syria, I don't think we should go to war with them, in my personal opinion, unless they're hiding terrorist leaders on the level of bin Laden or posessing WMDs.

supporting hizballah, hiding iraqi leaders, and researching/possessing wmds?

[Master of Ossus]

Syria is harboring terrorist leaders, such as the ones behind numerous hijackings, and houses the HQ's of no less than twenty international terrorist organizations including the Japanese cult Aum Shimrikyo, which launched the infamous Sarin attack on the Tokyo subway. They also harbor Hizbollah's HQ's, and have trained PIRA members to launch terrorist actions against civilians and government officials in Northern Ireland. They have been testing chemical weapons, and are believed to be producing Sarin, VX, and mustard gas. They have also been attempting to acquire SCUD-C missiles to augment their current arsenal of mid-range ballistic missiles. If anything, they're MUCH worse than the Iraqis.

[Enforcer Talen]

and, since we're in the area, and we're fighting a war on terrorism. . .

[Enforcer Talen]

Syria is harboring terrorist leaders, such as the ones behind numerous hijackings, and houses the HQ's of no less than twenty international terrorist organizations including the Japanese cult Aum Shimrikyo, which launched the infamous Sarin attack on the Tokyo subway. They also harbor Hizbollah's HQ's, and have trained PIRA members to launch terrorist actions against civilians and government officials in Northern Ireland. They have been testing chemical weapons, and are believed to be producing Sarin, VX, and mustard gas. They have also been attempting to acquire SCUD-C missiles to augment their current arsenal of mid-range ballistic missiles. If anything, they're MUCH worse than the Iraqis.

oh, and what are your sources? Id like to review for the next invasion debate.

[Vympel]

Syria is harboring terrorist leaders, such as the ones behind numerous hijackings, and houses the HQ's of no less than twenty international terrorist organizations including the Japanese cult Aum Shimrikyo, which launched the infamous Sarin attack on the Tokyo subway. They also harbor Hizbollah's HQ's, and have trained PIRA members to launch terrorist actions against civilians and government officials in Northern Ireland.

Yet Syria also helped the US in its hunt for Al-Qaeda following 9/11- clearly, pressure can be put on Syria before we rush off to war.

They have been testing chemical weapons, and are believed to be producing Sarin, VX, and mustard gas. They have also been attempting to acquire SCUD-C missiles to augment their current arsenal of mid-range ballistic missiles. If anything, they're MUCH worse than the Iraqis.

Syria is not under weapons sanctions, making it's ballistic missile acquisitions totally above board and beyond legal reproach, and is not party to any anti-chemical weapons treaty (I think). It also very recently tabled a resolution in the UN to free the Middle East of WMD, a resolution aimed squarely at Israel (with it's 200 nuclear weapons that are an open secret).

[Vympel]

From globalsecurity.org

Syria obtained Russian Scud-Bs, but it is unclear whether it received Russian Scud-Cs [Vympel note: there is no such thing as a Russian SCUD-C, SCUD-C is a North Korean mod]. As of 1992 it was estimated that Syria had 18 Scud-B launchers, as well as 18 of the second-generation Soviet SS-21s, a highly mobile, but shorter-range, missile capable of striking targets in northern Israel. It is widely believed that in late 1991 Syria bought 150 Scud-Cs [an extended-range versions of the Scud-Bs] from North Korea. Syrian Scuds are claimed to have a variety of warheads available, including cluster chemical, unitary VX chemical and unitary high explosive.

In September 1997 Yediot Aharanot published an article on Syrian missile capability by Harold Hough, an American researcher who specializes in intelligence deciphering of satellite imagery. This analysis suggested that the bases of the two Syrian brigades of new Scud C missiles were located 25 kilometers from the city of Hama, on the road to as-Salamiyah. This site may contain the new Scud-C acquired from North Korea in 1991. Hough concluded that there were 36 launchers on this site, many more than had been anticpated at a single site. Countries with Scuds generally maintain a 10:1 ratio between missiles and launchers. Assuming that the Hama base has about half of Syria's missiles, the ratio is 2:1 in terms of launchers and missiles.

A Syrian Scud-C unit is generally thought to consist of 18 launchers and 50 missiles. Preparations for the first launch take about one-and-a-half hours, but in some cases only three to five minutes will be enough for a second launch. In early 1998 it was reported that Syria had moved two units of Scud-C missiles from the region of Aleppo in the north to the vicinity of the capital, Damascus.

In late September 2000 Syria successfully tested its Korean Scud-D missile with a 360 mile range. The new Scud D, with a range of some 700 kilometers, gives Damascus the option of deploying missiles deeper into Syria to better protect them. In early July 2001 an Israeli radar picked up the launch of the Scud from the Haleb region, in northern Syria, and monitored its path until it landed some 300 kilometers away in the desert of southern Syria. As of late 2000 Syria is believed to have 26 Scud launchers and 300-400 Scud Bs and Cs. The Scud B is capable of carrying a 1,000-kg warhead up to 300 kilometres and the Scud Cs a 770-kg warhead up to 500 kilometres, putting virtually all of Israel under the Syrian missile threat. Although the Scud D has a longer range than the Scud-C, it has a lighter warhead and is less accurate.

Just to talk a bit about Tochka (SS-21 SCARAB).

This is easily Syria's best missile. The Soviets used it to replace their obselete Luna-M rockets (FROG-7 to NATO) starting in the late 70s and into the mid 80s, when replacement was complete (Tochka and the longer ranged Tochka-U are standard equipment in the Russian Army now). 70km range, extremely accurate (less than 100m), makes flight path changes on its way to the target (complicating shooting it down), and doesn't fly as high as other ballistic missiles, making detection harder.

Can be equipped with:

482kg conventional HEF warhead
Anti-tank/Anti-Personnel Cluster bomblet warhead
AA-60 dial-a-yield nuclear warhead (5-50kt)- I doubt the Syrians have this

Note that Syria doesn't have improved design Tochka-U (SCARAB-B), with 120km range, improved CEP (less than 50m), and other really cool features (20g hard turns in the terminal attack phase to make shooting it down a bitch).