How much mass would the Dyson sphere need?

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-04-17 10:24am

Eh? I was wondering just where they cold egt all the materials needed. It seemed to be mosty dense metals. They'd have had to break up whole planets to get them, I presume.

Cyborg Stan · Post by **Cyborg Stan** » 2003-04-17 11:38am

You'd need to do more than to get the planets in a solar system.... Assuming we're using a 100 million km radius Dyson sphere that's made of iron and is around 200 meters thick, we'd get a mass of over 1.92e30 kg..... which is very close to that of the Sun.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-04-17 12:38pm

Oh. Well, that would be... irritating.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-04-17 03:05pm

REAL dyson spheres are pretty heavy, atleast one solar mass, if not more.

but then, REAL dyson spheres are just a shitload of satellites orbitting a star, not an actual solid ball around a star.

youre better of with a ringworld if you want a solid construct.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-17 04:15pm

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-17 04:53pm

The Dyson sphere was one of the best plot devices and pieces of technolovy ever wasted on a single episode.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-17 05:52pm

I agree. They should have saved it for another episode.

I mean, as if the Dyson Sphere could have at all competed with Scotty...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-17 08:54pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I agree. They should have saved it for another episode.

I mean, as if the Dyson Sphere could have at all competed with Scotty...

Hell, it would have made a good DS9 plot with the Dominion War. Turn that thing into a battle fortress.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-17 09:13pm

I think I saw it in at least two episodes...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-17 09:55pm

Alyeska wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I agree. They should have saved it for another episode.

I mean, as if the Dyson Sphere could have at all competed with Scotty...
Hell, it would have made a good DS9 plot with the Dominion War. Turn that thing into a battle fortress.

Yeah, good idea. Divert men and equipment to fortify a remote location while the enemy is attacking your home territories.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-17 10:16pm

Alyeska wrote:
Hell, it would have made a good DS9 plot with the Dominion War. Turn that thing into a battle fortress.

And watch the wave of the Dominion easily wash around it. Unless the Federation rapidly moved a vast amount of industry inside of it, it would be irrelevant and garrisoning the thing would be very difficult anyway. And of course without sufficient defenses both internally and externally it could become one big trap for the Federations own forces.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-04-17 10:21pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I agree. They should have saved it for another episode.

I mean, as if the Dyson Sphere could have at all competed with Scotty...
Hell, it would have made a good DS9 plot with the Dominion War. Turn that thing into a battle fortress.
Yeah, good idea. Divert men and equipment to fortify a remote location while the enemy is attacking your home territories.

Quiet Wong! All that matterz is how kewl it soundz!

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-04-17 10:21pm

I think it would have been better, for the DS9 sphere, if they had, instead, made it some technological resource of untold magnitude which both the Federation and the Dominion want.

hvb · Post by **hvb** » 2003-04-18 08:30am

btw.
does anyone remember where in Federation space the Dyson sphere is located? (nearby planets, where had the Enterprice/Scotty been before etc.)

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-18 08:47am

it is also a wasted fanfic plot element. has it ever been used?

hvb · Post by **hvb** » 2003-04-18 09:22am

I don't remember seeing it, so my question for the location was as much a promt to get others to think on that as need for the info for myself. (I am not sure I could use it in my 'notes for a quarter fanfic'

)

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-18 09:47am

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I agree. They should have saved it for another episode.

I mean, as if the Dyson Sphere could have at all competed with Scotty...
Hell, it would have made a good DS9 plot with the Dominion War. Turn that thing into a battle fortress.
Yeah, good idea. Divert men and equipment to fortify a remote location while the enemy is attacking your home territories.

I was thinking more along the lines of a perfectly contianed shipyard and nice outside defenses. Such a station could easily hide it. Besides, we know the Sphere has to be relatively close to the Federation Core for the older ship Scotty was on to be near it and for him to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time in the shuttle he borrowed.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-18 09:47am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote: Hell, it would have made a good DS9 plot with the Dominion War. Turn that thing into a battle fortress.
Yeah, good idea. Divert men and equipment to fortify a remote location while the enemy is attacking your home territories.
Quiet Wong! All that matterz is how kewl it soundz!

There is that.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-18 09:50am

Alyeska wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of a perfectly contianed shipyard and nice outside defenses. Such a station could easily hide it. Besides, we know the Sphere has to be relatively close to the Federation Core for the older ship Scotty was on to be near it and for him to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time in the shuttle he borrowed.

that would be one hell of a shipyard..... 2 AU in diameter.

also, i would imagine it could hold trillions of colonists if indeed the majority of the internal surface is inhabitable.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-18 10:01am

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Alyeska wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of a perfectly contianed shipyard and nice outside defenses. Such a station could easily hide it. Besides, we know the Sphere has to be relatively close to the Federation Core for the older ship Scotty was on to be near it and for him to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time in the shuttle he borrowed.
that would be one hell of a shipyard..... 2 AU in diameter. also, i would imagine it could hold trillions of colonists if indeed the majority of the internal surface is inhabitable.

If needs be you can use forcefields and the like to keep the surface inhabitable. We already know that a fair distance away from the star is safe. They could build thousands upon thousands of shipyards. They can also use massive sollar arrays to power industrial level replicators to provide the needed resources. Also if needs be they can simply convert the surface area into a fully contained series of habitats and forgoe trying to make it planet like.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-04-18 09:10pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:it is also a wasted fanfic plot element. has it ever been used?

Shhh, you'll ruin the surprise!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-18 11:23pm

Alyeska wrote:If needs be you can use forcefields and the like to keep the surface inhabitable. We already know that a fair distance away from the star is safe. They could build thousands upon thousands of shipyards. They can also use massive sollar arrays to power industrial level replicators to provide the needed resources. Also if needs be they can simply convert the surface area into a fully contained series of habitats and forgoe trying to make it planet like.

If they can't build thousands upon thousands of shipyards around their own star systems with easy access to minerals, labour, and solar resources, why would they suddenly be able to do so in the Dyson sphere? Think about what you're saying.

hvb · Post by **hvb** » 2003-04-19 10:15am

I would say it would make more sense if the users of the Dyson sphere where not the UFP, but an outside force hiding in Federation space, using it as a staging point.

Nobody says they have to have the resources to populate or industrialize the whole sphere (the internal surface area would be about 1,4e25 km^2 = 5,5e24 miles^2, assuming 1 AU radius) the population of Coruscant would not crowd this place, let along the population of any hidden base.

The sphere does seem to be mostly dormant, but if you use it in a fic keep in mind: so did Rama at first

... could make for a nice sideplot (or turning point).

EDIT: they may first need to infiltrate the Feds to learn of the location.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2003-04-22 06:15pm

Wouldn't the strength of the material used be an important factor in determining mass? If it was too weak, the thing would collapse. Even if you put spin on it, the poles would collapse. That thing always messed with my head.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-04-23 12:28am

you know, the dyson sphere could actually be a REALLY good starting point for a REALLY GOOD movie, if done right.