Although not religious myself ...

[Ubiquitous]

... I find it a bit senseless that some people project so much malice towards those who follow a religion. A couple of weeks ago my deeply religious Great-Grandmother passed away, yet when I met some of her friends from her local parish, I realised why it was such an important part of her life. She would use to tell me off for using the word 'Jesus' or 'God' in vain, yet she never tried to force her beliefs on me, e.g. read the bible to me or make me visit church with her when she would babysit me as a youngster.

Perhaps we should end senseless debating against people whose faith is an important part of their lives? I don't know ... it just seams pointless to try and enforce our anti-religious views on devoted people.

Bah, I can't really express what I meant to say across the forum, yet I hope the jist of my point was put across reasonably well.

Any comments, positive or negative?

[Enforcer Talen]

course, lots of those religious types try and enforce their views on me.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

... I find it a bit senseless that some people project so much malice towards those who follow a religion. A couple of weeks ago my deeply religious Great-Grandmother passed away, yet when I met some of her friends from her local parish, I realised why it was such an important part of her life. She would use to tell me off for using the word 'Jesus' or 'God' in vain, yet she never tried to force her beliefs on me, e.g. read the bible to me or make me visit church with her when she would babysit me as a youngster.

Perhaps we should end senseless debating against people whose faith is an important part of their lives? I don't know ... it just seams pointless to try and enforce our anti-religious views on devoted people.

Bah, I can't really express what I meant to say across the forum, yet I hope the jist of my point was put across reasonably well.

Any comments, positive or negative?

The principal problem with this view is that all-too-frequently, these debates begin because some of the devoted choose to try to enforce their brand of religious faith and devotion on us. I have not seen any examples of members of this forum who didn't attack religious folk for the sake of attacking them. Typically, some of the religious folk come charging onto the forum gibbering about creationisim being right, or some similar nonsense. Now don't get me wrong, we have a fair number of rational religious people on this board. I don't see much, if any persecution of them going on.

[Sektor31]

I don't really hate people who have a religion, what you believe is your own business.

I DO hate people who try to force religion down my throat.

[Queeb Salaron]

As it's been said before, I don't think any of us really flame others for being religious. We flame the religion, sure. We flame fundamentalsts who attack OUR beliefs. But we don't dislike them because they're religious.

They dislike us because we're not religious, or because we're the wrong kind of religious.

I just thought of something: I'd like to see more flaming of ALL fundies, be they Judeo-Christian, Islamic, Hindi, Buddhist, etc. We're too Christian-centered, as far as I can see. Why discriminate? There are enough fundies to go around.

[Baron Scarpia]

I would never attack anyone over their religion, unless they started it. The second I get preached at, I feel I have free reign to (politely) argue with them. If they start getting nasty (and they usually do), I will fight fire with fire. They flame me, I flame them right back.

[Baron Scarpia]

As it's been said before, I don't think any of us really flame others for being religious. We flame the religion, sure. We flame fundamentalsts who attack OUR beliefs. But we don't dislike them because they're religious.

They dislike us because we're not religious, or because we're the wrong kind of religious.

I just thought of something: I'd like to see more flaming of ALL fundies, be they Judeo-Christian, Islamic, Hindi, Buddhist, etc. We're too Christian-centered, as far as I can see. Why discriminate? There are enough fundies to go around.

I've never heard of anything like a Buddhist Fundamentalist.

I think that the fundamental tenets of Buddhism are such that one couldn't possibly get into a flame war with them!

[jegs2]

Human bomb, dressed as a Buddist monk runs toward me screaming, "Allehu Buddah!!!!" ... reaches for detonation button, and...

Nah, I don't see it either.

[Joe]

I will admit that I'm a little too hostile to religion. I don't want to evade blame for that, but I don't think I would be if I didn't get horrified looks whenever admitting to be an atheist in public.

[jegs2]

I will admit that I'm a little too hostile to religion. I don't want to evade blame for that, but I don't think I would be if I didn't get horrified looks whenever admitting to be an atheist in public.

You'd get no such look from me. I do however give dubious looks to folks who claim to be Christians and then go against the teachings of Christ by what they say or do.

[Darth Wong]

Perhaps we should end senseless debating against people whose faith is an important part of their lives? I don't know ... it just seams pointless to try and enforce our anti-religious views on devoted people.

That's why you don't see me out in church parking lots harassing people on their way in. That is their place of worship, and I would never try to ruin their day in such a boorish manner. However, when they come here and try to tell us we're wrong, they are inviting debate. If they want to whine afterwards, they should have thought of that before going in.

Jegs2 is an example of a guy who's a Christian but doesn't get himself yelled at around here (by most people, anyway), and for whom I personally have the utmost respect. Why is this? It's because he doesn't go barging into a discussion and try to tell us that we're immoral for being atheists (for example). Similarly, Stravo is another Christian for whom I have great respect and who does not get tarred and feathered. Certain Christians complain that we rabidly attack any Christian who comes into range, but frankly, they're full of shit because that simply isn't true.

We don't go out of our way to attack Christians, but when a Christian comes in and says "you're wrong and immoral blah blah blah", what should he expect? Meek silence? If you go somewhere looking for a fight, don't be surprised when you get one.

[Rye]

I've had a conversation with a fundy buddhist, he believed he had absolutely got it right...he'd found a secret route to enlightenment, and the rest of us were just trailing him. A fundie is a fundie is a fundie.

I also had a great grandmother who was a fundie, and i found out recently that when i was a little kid, i used to really like her, despite her having spurned our family for the church. Upon remembering more and more i remember she used to hit me quite a lot.

Oh well. Perhaps this accounts for a little of my anger at christianity, but i doubt it, more likely my anger at old people.

[phongn]

There are indeed fundamentalist Buddhists. There are, strangely enough, also Buddhist terrorists.

[UltraViolence83]

Would those Buddhist monks that set themselves on fire and didn't move a muscle to protest the Vietnamese communist government be considered fundamentalists? They did kill themselves for their religion (I beleive that was the reason...not sure)...One would think that anyone who is willing to die for their beliefs obviously adhere to the fundamentals of that particular religion, and are thus fundamentalists. Am I right?





I wish I had the willpower to set myself on fire...What a show that'd be!

[Queeb Salaron]

Would those Buddhist monks that set themselves on fire and didn't move a muscle to protest the Vietnamese communist government be considered fundamentalists? They did kill themselves for their religion (I beleive that was the reason...not sure)...One would think that anyone who is willing to die for their beliefs obviously adhere to the fundamentals of that particular religion, and are thus fundamentalists. Am I right?

Umm... I think you have to better define what you just said. I mean, I'd die for my family, and I don't think that makes me a Family Fundie (TV game-show spoof in the making). But as far as religion and politics go, I dunno. I mean, I guess you could say the same thing for people in the Armed Services, right? That they're willing to die to preserve things like liberty and democracy?

[UltraViolence83]

Willing to die for your belief structure i.e., someone wants to kill you for it unless you change your ways. You don't.

[Steven Snyder]

I don't know ... it just seams pointless to try and enforce our anti-religious views on devoted people.

I will be sure to mention this to the next atheist that comes to my door trying to de-convert the neighborhood.

[Darth Gojira]

As it's been said before, I don't think any of us really flame others for being religious. We flame the religion, sure. We flame fundamentalsts who attack OUR beliefs. But we don't dislike them because they're religious.

They dislike us because we're not religious, or because we're the wrong kind of religious.

I just thought of something: I'd like to see more flaming of ALL fundies, be they Judeo-Christian, Islamic, Hindi, Buddhist, etc. We're too Christian-centered, as far as I can see. Why discriminate? There are enough fundies to go around.

I've never heard of anything like a Buddhist Fundamentalist.

I think that the fundamental tenets of Buddhism are such that one couldn't possibly get into a flame war with them!

"Nobody expects the Buddhist Inquisition!!"

[Ubiquitous]

Well, I think I have a better, more positive understanding of the mindset of people here then. Thanks.

[Superman]

About Buddhists... Can anyone find a holy war associated with Buddhism?

[Darth Gojira]

About Buddhists... Can anyone find a holy war associated with Buddhism?

Against them, or by them? More of the former, none of the latter.

[Superman]

Interesting, eh?

[Jonathan]

That's why you don't see me out in church parking lots harassing people on their way in. That is their place of worship, and I would never try to ruin their day in such a boorish manner. However, when they come here and try to tell us we're wrong, they are inviting debate. If they want to whine afterwards, they should have thought of that before going in.

There is, however, a differene between receiving debate in a place intended for such debate, and receiving flames for presenting an opinion people do not agree with. This is a problem I've seen here before.

We don't go out of our way to attack Christians, but when a Christian comes in and says "you're wrong and immoral blah blah blah", what should he expect? Meek silence? If you go somewhere looking for a fight, don't be surprised when you get one.

If a Christian comes in, enters an ongoing debate about morality and states that he believes certain actions are immoral, which should he expect? Reasoned debate on the matter? Or sneering condescension and flames for expressing a view that disagrees with the majority? I imagine that in principle most of you would say reasoned debate.

[Keevan_Colton]

That's why you don't see me out in church parking lots harassing people on their way in. That is their place of worship, and I would never try to ruin their day in such a boorish manner. However, when they come here and try to tell us we're wrong, they are inviting debate. If they want to whine afterwards, they should have thought of that before going in.

There is, however, a differene between receiving debate in a place intended for such debate, and receiving flames for presenting an opinion people do not agree with. This is a problem I've seen here before.

We don't go out of our way to attack Christians, but when a Christian comes in and says "you're wrong and immoral blah blah blah", what should he expect? Meek silence? If you go somewhere looking for a fight, don't be surprised when you get one.

If a Christian comes in, enters an ongoing debate about morality and states that he believes certain actions are immoral, which should he expect? Reasoned debate on the matter? Or sneering condescension and flames for expressing a view that disagrees with the majority? I imagine that in principle most of you would say reasoned debate.

Here we're big on what you say and do, and far less on how you present it. Something with actual factual merit gets taken far more seriously than bullshit.....noticing the title you're sporting I'm guessing you've not picked up on that too well.

Define what you mean, debate? I dont think you've got it quite right.
You require evidence to support an assertion, if you have none expect to get shot down in flames by people who do...its how things work.

If anyone enters into a debate here with nothing to back thier position up, they can they expect to come away from the debate with people agreeing with them? No, I dont think so.....
Please feel free to file this under sneering condescension.

[Jonathan]

Here we're big on what you say and do, and far less on how you present it. Something with actual factual merit gets taken far more seriously than bullshit...

So you'd hope.

noticing the title you're sporting I'm guessing you've not picked up on that too well.

Ah, sweet irony. You look to the label, rather than the contents.

The label exists because Mike doesn't like what I say and people make up things about me.

Define what you mean, debate? I dont think you've got it quite right.
You require evidence to support an assertion, if you have none expect to get shot down in flames by people who do...its how things work.

Hang on, you ask me what I mean by debate, then tell me I'm wrong before I've replied? Interesting. Generally speaking, debate involves at least people presenting an opinion on a matter, backed up by reasons why such an opinion is held.

If anyone enters into a debate here with nothing to back thier position up, they can they expect to come away from the debate with people agreeing with them? No, I dont think so.....
Please feel free to file this under sneering condescension.

Okay, after all you jumped to conclusions about me and what I thought about debate rather than asking and awaiting my reply. Exactly the kind of behaviour I'm talking about. I found it quite prevalent in this particular forum. People make assumptions about what I believe and attack me on the basis of those assumptions, rather than waiting to hear what I have to say and by the time they've bothered to read my posts, there's been a deluge of critical posts arguing against something I never said and collectively they convince themsleves that I must have said it if so many people are attacking me. It's quite a fascinating phenomonon at work, but not terribly conducive to good debate.