Who Armed Iraq?

[Beowulf]

Much of the French and German opposition for the war is pretty basic: They can't afford to support it. You see, as a part of the conditions to use the Euro, EU countries have to keep their fiscal spending in check, and can't go above a certain percentage of GDP in deficit. With the economy bad, they can't afford to spend money to help support a war in Iraq. Of course, now that the war is over, they want a slice of the pie when it comes to rebuilding contracts, since we're talking about millions, possibly billions for corporations involved.

Or IOW, they want to have their cake and eat it too...

[Sea Skimmer]

Fair enough, though Russia is supposed to still be owed oil for those arms transfered when the USSR was in existance.

Owed oil? It's owed cash- Russia has plenty of oil on its own- you might mean contracts for developing oil in the country though. Bush could have easily gotten Russia's support or at least an abstention in the vote if he had guaranteed they payment of Iraq's debt to Russia, and it's oil interests.

However Iraq's debts are so massive saying "fuck you" to France an Russia will likely provide a better return.

[Sea Skimmer]

AFAIK, the Iraqis had some Crotales and GCTs in Desert Storm, didn't they?

No Cortales, but they did have Rolands, Milans, artillery, armored cars and about 200 Mirage F-1 fighters, not to mention hundreds of exocets. France also did much of the work on KARI, the Iraqi air defence network.

[Sea Skimmer]

Personally, I still wanna see proof of the idiot claim that the Russians had supplied the Iraqis with 500 Kornet-E anti-tank missiles.

Reports of two M-1s being knocked by the system have proved quite persistent, though the Pentagon seems to be blaming Syria, which recently bought quite a few from Russia.

I doubt its true myself.

[Vympel]

However Iraq's debts are so massive saying "fuck you" to France an Russia will likely provide a better return.

I heard Iraq only owes some 8-10 billion to Russia, I think. Though I could be totally wrong. It's total debt all up is many many times that though.

[Spyder]

The graph also doesn't show exactly what weapons were sold. Did France equip Saddam with chemical and biological weapons?

[Sea Skimmer]

I heard Iraq only owes some 8-10 billion to Russia, I think. Though I could be totally wrong. It's total debt all up is many many times that though.

That sounds like the value of the signed oil development contracts. But it may be correct.

[Sea Skimmer]

The graph also doesn't show exactly what weapons were sold. Did France equip Saddam with chemical and biological weapons?

They sold some of the manufacturing equipment and provide samples of a few germs, but Germany was the main equipment supply when it came to chemicals, and bio agents came from all over the western world.

However for the most part France sold conventional munitions

[Alex Moon]

Much of the French and German opposition for the war is pretty basic: They can't afford to support it. You see, as a part of the conditions to use the Euro, EU countries have to keep their fiscal spending in check, and can't go above a certain percentage of GDP in deficit. With the economy bad, they can't afford to spend money to help support a war in Iraq. Of course, now that the war is over, they want a slice of the pie when it comes to rebuilding contracts, since we're talking about millions, possibly billions for corporations involved.

Or IOW, they want to have their cake and eat it too...

Pretty much.

[Oddity]

Made some background research. Look at this.

[Setzer]

It sucked.

I'LL CUT YOU!!!


Ok, so no I won't, but don't say that again; it's not good for your health.

No, don't cut... I'll get the lye!

[Master of Ossus]

However Iraq's debts are so massive saying "fuck you" to France an Russia will likely provide a better return.

I heard Iraq only owes some 8-10 billion to Russia, I think. Though I could be totally wrong. It's total debt all up is many many times that though.

Iraq owes money to EVERYBODY. It spent billions on its Iran-Iraq War buying weapons and equipment, but it also has massive debts to pay off following the Gulf War. Since its prime natural resource has been embargoed for the last decade, it really hasn't had a chance to start paying that off.

[Vympel]

Iraq owes money to EVERYBODY. It spent billions on its Iran-Iraq War buying weapons and equipment, but it also has massive debts to pay off following the Gulf War. Since its prime natural resource has been embargoed for the last decade, it really hasn't had a chance to start paying that off.

It won't be paid off in decades- maximum Iraq would ever get from oil revenue is only in the 20 billion or so a year mark, last I heard.

[Sea Skimmer]

Iraq owes money to EVERYBODY. It spent billions on its Iran-Iraq War buying weapons and equipment, but it also has massive debts to pay off following the Gulf War. Since its prime natural resource has been embargoed for the last decade, it really hasn't had a chance to start paying that off.

It won't be paid off in decades- maximum Iraq would ever get from oil revenue is only in the 20 billion or so a year mark, last I heard.

20 billion with their existing level of development I believe, there are however some major fields which are untapped. The whole Iraqi oil industry hasn't devoloped very much since Iranian Phantoms started knocking holes in it in 1980.

[Master of Ossus]

Iraq owes money to EVERYBODY. It spent billions on its Iran-Iraq War buying weapons and equipment, but it also has massive debts to pay off following the Gulf War. Since its prime natural resource has been embargoed for the last decade, it really hasn't had a chance to start paying that off.

It won't be paid off in decades- maximum Iraq would ever get from oil revenue is only in the 20 billion or so a year mark, last I heard.

20 billion with their existing level of development I believe, there are however some major fields which are untapped. The whole Iraqi oil industry hasn't devoloped very much since Iranian Phantoms started knocking holes in it in 1980.

To be fair, petroleum is one of those weird industries where if you produce beyond a certain amount, the total revenue actually goes down. It's also unique (to the best of my knowledge) in that any one of a number of countries can easily produce so much as to destroy the total revenue generated by all of the nations producing it, virtually necessitating a cartel, or a similar system of management.

[Tsyroc]

To be fair, petroleum is one of those weird industries where if you produce beyond a certain amount, the total revenue actually goes down. It's also unique (to the best of my knowledge) in that any one of a number of countries can easily produce so much as to destroy the total revenue generated by all of the nations producing it, virtually necessitating a cartel, or a similar system of management.

A lot of agricultural industries are in the same boat. Produce as much as possible and the price goes down to the point where everyone loses money.

[Master of Ossus]

To be fair, petroleum is one of those weird industries where if you produce beyond a certain amount, the total revenue actually goes down. It's also unique (to the best of my knowledge) in that any one of a number of countries can easily produce so much as to destroy the total revenue generated by all of the nations producing it, virtually necessitating a cartel, or a similar system of management.

A lot of agricultural industries are in the same boat. Produce as much as possible and the price goes down to the point where everyone loses money.

Right, and since agriculture is difficult to maintain cartels in, we use Federal subsidies and futures markets in most Western nations to make sure that supply stays fairly stable.

[Crown]

The graph also doesn't show exactly what weapons were sold. Did France equip Saddam with chemical and biological weapons?

The German companies (80's) supplied Iraq with Chemical Weapons knowledge. The French (80's) with nuclear tech. And the US State Department (80's) with biological spores, anthrax was one of them.

[Master of Ossus]

The graph also doesn't show exactly what weapons were sold. Did France equip Saddam with chemical and biological weapons?

Probably not. It "merely" sold them the ability to produce a nuclear warhead... NUMEROUS TIMES.

[phongn]

AFAIK, the Iraqis had some Crotales and GCTs in Desert Storm, didn't they?

No Cortales, but they did have Rolands, Milans, artillery, armored cars and about 200 Mirage F-1 fighters, not to mention hundreds of exocets. France also did much of the work on KARI, the Iraqi air defence network.

GlobalSecurity is showing that they had Crotale batteries from 1990 onwards.

[Sea Skimmer]

GlobalSecurity is showing that they had Crotale batteries from 1990 onwards.

The text mentions only Roland, as does every single other source I've ever seen.