Transgender to run for public office in Japan...

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 11:32am

hehehehehe i'm such an asshole

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2003-04-21 11:32am

Col. Crackpot wrote:See, thats one thing i never understood. Why the hell do people feel the need to go chopping their dick off and growing a set of squeeze toys? Now don't get me wrong, i don't care who you choose to sleep with, or what gender you choose to dress up as, but fuck, i have to draw the line a self mutilation. Why is it if you chop off your fingers, they call it a mental disorder and put you in a psych ward, but if you chop of your dick, oh, your just exploring your sexuality! Hell, when i was a kid i wanted to grow up and be a fire truck, but at one point i realized i just didn't have the equipment. Did i have a flashing red light, ladder and hose surgically attached to my body? nope, i grew up and moved on.

FUQ!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-21 11:35am

Col. Crackpot wrote: i'm willing to bet that you have no desire to discover what dog shit tastes like, so by that logic you are also willfully ignorant. Look, this is an activity i find repugnant. i also find shit porn repugnant. i am not advocating for new laws to outlaw either sex changes or shit porn, i am merely stating my opinion. I have no right to tell you that your opinion is wrong, and you have no right to tell me mine is wrong, even if you dress up your disdain for my opinion with your condecending moral indignation.

You're entitled to your opinion no matter how asnine or bigotted it is. But that doesn't me we're not going to decry your willful ignorance and lack of rational morals. Forcing someone to live a lie is harmful, far more so than a properly performed and relatively safe surgical procedure.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 11:39am

Stormbringer wrote: You're entitled to your opinion no matter how asnine or bigotted it is. But that doesn't me we're not going to decry your willful ignorance and lack of rational morals. Forcing someone to live a lie is harmful, far more so than a properly performed and relatively safe surgical procedure.

but you know what storm,after the surgery, they are living a lie. because physiologicly inside, they are not a woman. they never had ovaries or a uterus or fallopian tubes. they are merely changing their outward appearance to make them look like what they can never be.....call it whatever you wan't i'l still going to call it delusional.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-21 11:45am

Col. Crackpot wrote:but you know what storm,after the surgery, they are living a lie. because physiologicly inside, they are not a woman. they never had ovaries or a uterus or fallopian tubes. they are merely changing their outward appearance to make them look like what they can never be.....call it whatever you wan't i'l still going to call it delusional.

I won't argue with you that they'll never be a real women in that sense, but that doesn't mean that you have to be bigotted about it.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 11:49am

Stormbringer wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:but you know what storm,after the surgery, they are living a lie. because physiologicly inside, they are not a woman. they never had ovaries or a uterus or fallopian tubes. they are merely changing their outward appearance to make them look like what they can never be.....call it whatever you wan't i'l still going to call it delusional.
I won't argue with you that they'll never be a real women in that sense, but that doesn't mean that you have to be bigotted about it.

arrrrgggghhhhh! did i ever say ban sex changes? did i ever say i hate them and want them to die? no! all i said was that was an activity i find repugnant. i'm not saying the people who do it are bad, just misguided and maybe delusional....

<sigh>....i just long for the those halcyon days of long ago when a tranny was something you picked up at an auto parts store, and not on a street corner.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-21 11:56am

Col. Crackpot wrote:arrrrgggghhhhh! did i ever say ban sex changes? did i ever say i hate them and want them to die? no! all i said was that was an activity i find repugnant. i'm not saying the people who do it are bad, just misguided and maybe delusional....

<sigh>....i just long for the those halcyon days of long ago when a tranny was something you picked up at an auto parts store, and not on a street corner.

That's still prejudice, you just don't want to legislate it. You'd rather they simply stayed as they were rather than offend your tender sensibilities.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 12:01pm

i don't see this as a prejudice issue. i'm advocating these people get mental health help and address the root cause of their desire to mutilate themself instead of living a life of lies pretending to be something they are not.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-21 12:03pm

Any medical procedure that isn't purely done for health reasons is mutilation. Facial reconstruction is mutilation.

Colonel Crackpot, your premise has so many holes in it that it doesn't even float.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 12:26pm

Alyeska wrote:Any medical procedure that isn't purely done for health reasons is mutilation. Facial reconstruction is mutilation.

Colonel Crackpot, your premise has so many holes in it that it doesn't even float.

huh? you agree with what i said in one statement, and criticize it whith the other?...???

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2003-04-21 12:28pm

Tattoos are more "mutilation" than sex changes are, since tattoos are done purely for cosmetic reasons.

I don't understand transgenderism at all, being decidely male, even a gay one. But I have an enormous amount of sympathy and respect for transgendered folks who have had the operation. It takes a lot of courage to do it. It would be "easier" to stay as their current gender, living what to them is a lie, but would it really be better for them? I don't see any difference between a transexual and a gay person who has come out of the closet, as both have decided the costs of living a lie are too great as opposed to the costs of being honest with themselves and their loved ones.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-04-21 12:29pm

Crackpot (what a fitting name) wrote:since when is chopping of body parts not harmful? think about it for a second. if someone lopped off a foot because mentally he or she decided it was not part of their 'identity' anymore, would you not classify that as harmfull? if someone wanted to gouge out their eyeballs so they could 'identify' with blind culture, would you not classify that as harmfull? Look, i'm not advocating legislation to ban this sort of thing, i'm saying that there are some obvious mental illness when someone wants to CHOP OF THEIR FUCKING BODY PARTS. This has nothing to do with homosexuality, which is as far as i am concerned is perfectly normal. THIS IS CHOPPING OFF BODY PARTS. If this wasn't so en vouge with the PC types, it would be classified as a mental illness.

It's NOT just chopping off body parts, its' the replacement of body parts after months of grueling hormonal therapy.
It's NOT about 'identifying' with the opposite sex, it's about genuinely believing your sex is not consistent with your gender.

Crakpot posted an inappropriate picture and wrote: hehehehehe i'm such an asshole

Yes you are. Is this thread going to be split and HOSed, please?

Then he wrote:but you know what storm,after the surgery, they are living a lie. because physiologicly inside, they are not a woman. they never had ovaries or a uterus or fallopian tubes. they are merely changing their outward appearance to make them look like what they can never be.....call it whatever you wan't i'l still going to call it delusional.

That's only because the medical science hasn't progressed that far. Thay would if they could.
Assuming we're talking m-f changes here: they are mentally female, hormonally female, and physically more female than male. So they don't have a uterus, but they DO have a fully functional vagina, and breasts, so EVEN IF YOU SLEPT with a post op transgender, you wouldn't know unless she told you.

arrrrgggghhhhh! did i ever say ban sex changes? did i ever say i hate them and want them to die? no! all i said was that was an activity i find repugnant. i'm not saying the people who do it are bad, just misguided and maybe delusional....

This is exactly the same as fundies who claim that all homo- and bisexuals should be sent to mental institutions. Don't claim it's not because you don't have a problem with homosexuality. People who don't have a problem with Asians but hate Blacks are still rascist.

i don't see this as a prejudice issue. i'm advocating these people get mental health help and address the root cause of their desire to mutilate themself instead of living a life of lies pretending to be something they are not.

for the last time, it's about TRYING TO BE SOMEONE THEY ARE!!!!

<sigh>

My head hurts...

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-04-21 12:33pm

I found this site quite useful:

Why some Women want to become Men (and vice versa)

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 12:45pm

innerbrat wrote:
Crackpot (what a fitting name) wrote:since when is chopping of body parts not harmful? think about it for a second. if someone lopped off a foot because mentally he or she decided it was not part of their 'identity' anymore, would you not classify that as harmfull? if someone wanted to gouge out their eyeballs so they could 'identify' with blind culture, would you not classify that as harmfull? Look, i'm not advocating legislation to ban this sort of thing, i'm saying that there are some obvious mental illness when someone wants to CHOP OF THEIR FUCKING BODY PARTS. This has nothing to do with homosexuality, which is as far as i am concerned is perfectly normal. THIS IS CHOPPING OFF BODY PARTS. If this wasn't so en vouge with the PC types, it would be classified as a mental illness.
It's NOT just chopping off body parts, its' the replacement of body parts after months of grueling hormonal therapy.
It's NOT about 'identifying' with the opposite sex, it's about genuinely believing your sex is not consistent with your gender.

There are people in the world who genuinely belive they are Jesus Christ, do they get to have an operation to give them holes in their hands and a spigot to turn water in wine? no! they are delusional, just like trans-whatervers

Innerbrat wrote:
Then he wrote:but you know what storm,after the surgery, they are living a lie. because physiologicly inside, they are not a woman. they never had ovaries or a uterus or fallopian tubes. they are merely changing their outward appearance to make them look like what they can never be.....call it whatever you wan't i'l still going to call it delusional.
That's only because the medical science hasn't progressed that far. Thay would if they could.
Assuming we're talking m-f changes here: they are mentally female, hormonally female, and physically more female than male. So they don't have a uterus, but they DO have a fully functional vagina, and breasts, so EVEN IF YOU SLEPT with a post op transgender, you wouldn't know unless she told you.

Innerbrat, they never were and never will be female! they still have male DNA [My Austin powers taunt voice] It's a maaaaan baby!

innerbrat wrote:
arrrrgggghhhhh! did i ever say ban sex changes? did i ever say i hate them and want them to die? no! all i said was that was an activity i find repugnant. i'm not saying the people who do it are bad, just misguided and maybe delusional....
This is exactly the same as fundies who claim that all homo- and bisexuals should be sent to mental institutions. Don't claim it's not because you don't have a problem with homosexuality. People who don't have a problem with Asians but hate Blacks are still rascist.

No, it is not the same. Homosexuals (at least all the ones i know) accept themselves for who they are and live their lives accordingly. the transgendered do not. they try to phsically change the outside to phyically manifest their delusions.

innerbrat wrote:
i don't see this as a prejudice issue. i'm advocating these people get mental health help and address the root cause of their desire to mutilate themself instead of living a life of lies pretending to be something they are not.
for the last time, it's about TRYING TO BE SOMEONE THEY ARE!!!!

<sigh>

My head hurts...

[/quote]

um, no if they were trying to be someone they already were they would accept themselves for who they are and not try to radically change themselves......oh and take a tylenol.

EDIT:fixed errors

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-04-21 01:13pm

Col. Crackpot wrote: There are people in the world who genuinely belive they are Jesus Christ, do they get to have an operation to give them holes in their hands and a spigot to turn water in wine? no! they are delusional, just like trans-whatervers

Of course, that fact that transgenderism exists entirely separate for5m any other mental disorders such as schizophrenia means... what, exactly?

Col.Crackpot wrote: Innerbrat, they never were and never will be female! they still have male DNA [My Austin powers taunt voice] It's a maaaaan baby!

Oh well, as the INSTRUCTIONS say they're male, then they MUST be male! DNA means NOTHING after being transposed. The DNA of women with Turner's Syndrome is male. Does that mean we should force all of these women to have sex changes to make them male?
The DNA of people with Down's Syndrome isn't even human! Does that mean that they should be denied human rights?
Whatever causes transsexualism isn't known - I believe that gender identity disorders are as much a product of a gender-defined society than anything else - but they are often physiologically different from members of their original sex - in terms of neuroanatomy.

Col. Crackpot wrote:
innerbrat wrote:
arrrrgggghhhhh! did i ever say ban sex changes? did i ever say i hate them and want them to die? no! all i said was that was an activity i find repugnant. i'm not saying the people who do it are bad, just misguided and maybe delusional....
This is exactly the same as fundies who claim that all homo- and bisexuals should be sent to mental institutions. Don't claim it's not because you don't have a problem with homosexuality. People who don't have a problem with Asians but hate Blacks are still rascist.
No, it is not the same. Homosexuals (at least all the ones i know) accept themselves for who they are and live their lives accordingly. the transgendered do not. they try to phsically change the outside to phyically manifest their delusions.

yes. They accept who they are - Homosexuals. They have relationships with people of their own sex. They DO NOT try and deny they have a (very mild) form of gender identity disorder, and conform to how society expects their gender to behave.
Why should those with a much more total gender dysphoria deny who they are and live in a gender role they don't feel comfortable with?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 01:21pm

innerbrat wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote: There are people in the world who genuinely belive they are Jesus Christ, do they get to have an operation to give them holes in their hands and a spigot to turn water in wine? no! they are delusional, just like trans-whatervers
Of course, that fact that transgenderism exists entirely separate for5m any other mental disorders such as schizophrenia means... what, exactly?

what i'm saying is, isn't it the same thing? doctor's don't allow schizophrenics to go on beliving they are Jesus Christ?

Col.Crackpot wrote: Innerbrat, they never were and never will be female! they still have male DNA [My Austin powers taunt voice] It's a maaaaan baby!

Oh well, as the INSTRUCTIONS say they're male, then they MUST be male! DNA means NOTHING after being transposed. The DNA of women with Turner's Syndrome is male. Does that mean we should force all of these women to have sex changes to make them male?
The DNA of people with Down's Syndrome isn't even human! Does that mean that they should be denied human rights?
Whatever causes transsexualism isn't known - I believe that gender identity disorders are as much a product of a gender-defined society than anything else - but they are often physiologically different from members of their original sex - in terms of neuroanatomy.

Col. Crackpot wrote:
innerbrat wrote:
arrrrgggghhhhh! did i ever say ban sex changes? did i ever say i hate them and want them to die? no! all i said was that was an activity i find repugnant. i'm not saying the people who do it are bad, just misguided and maybe delusional....
This is exactly the same as fundies who claim that all homo- and bisexuals should be sent to mental institutions. Don't claim it's not because you don't have a problem with homosexuality. People who don't have a problem with Asians but hate Blacks are still rascist.
No, it is not the same. Homosexuals (at least all the ones i know) accept themselves for who they are and live their lives accordingly. the transgendered do not. they try to phsically change the outside to phyically manifest their delusions.

yes. They accept who they are - Homosexuals. They have relationships with people of their own sex. They DO NOT try and deny they have a (very mild) form of gender identity disorder, and conform to how society expects their gender to behave.
Why should those with a much more total gender dysphoria deny who they are and live in a gender role they don't feel comfortable with?[/quote]

yeah, psychobabble. it isn't a "role" is is a body. they are born with a "body" and to change it to suit a mental disorder is to reenforce a delusion

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-04-21 01:26pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
innerbrat wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote: There are people in the world who genuinely belive they are Jesus Christ, do they get to have an operation to give them holes in their hands and a spigot to turn water in wine? no! they are delusional, just like trans-whatervers
Of course, that fact that transgenderism exists entirely separate for5m any other mental disorders such as schizophrenia means... what, exactly?
what i'm saying is, isn't it the same thing? doctor's don't allow schizophrenics to go on beliving they are Jesus Christ?

No, It's not the same thing, because delusional people often have othe mental dsorders, such as schizophrenia.
Transgenders DO NOT. In order to qualify for an operation in the first place, they have to go through intense psychoanalysis to proove that they're not suffering from any mental disorder.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 01:32pm

ok Innerbrat, i'm gonna blink.
i'm sorry if i offended you. sometimes i get too into an arguement and let myself get carried away...i care more about winning the arguement and less about being right. has my mind changed? not really, but at least you made me think about it, right? lets just agree to disagree.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-04-21 01:34pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:ok Innerbrat, i'm gonna blink.
i'm sorry if i offended you. sometimes i get too into an arguement and let myself get carried away...i care more about winning the arguement and less about being right. has my mind changed? not really, but at least you made me think about it, right? lets just agree to disagree.

OK. As long as you will think about it before you sprout off about it again, 'K?

I'm gonna be frank: I was offended, but I accept your apology.#

*extends hand*

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-21 01:44pm

innerbrat wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:ok Innerbrat, i'm gonna blink.
i'm sorry if i offended you. sometimes i get too into an arguement and let myself get carried away...i care more about winning the arguement and less about being right. has my mind changed? not really, but at least you made me think about it, right? lets just agree to disagree.
OK. As long as you will think about it before you sprout off about it again, 'K?

I'm gonna be frank: I was offended, but I accept your apology.#

*extends hand*

*shakes*

i am not a 'politically correct' person, but i'll try not to be so blatantly offensive. no hard feelings?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-04-21 02:00pm

brat, gay guys dont have a mild gender disorder. gay guys are actually rather fond of their maleness and are terrified at the thought of loosing it.

Gender identity and who you fuck have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-04-21 02:50pm

kojikun wrote:brat, gay guys dont have a mild gender disorder. gay guys are actually rather fond of their maleness and are terrified at the thought of loosing it.

Gender identity and who you fuck have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

OK, there's a differecne between gender and sex - sex is biological, gender is social. A gender disorder is what makes people feel that they don't feel they can conform to what society dictates is 'normal' for their gender. In extreme cases (trangenderism) one feels that one is not the saem gender as sex.

In very mild cases, one just doesn't what to fuck members of the opposite sex.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-04-21 02:58pm

Heh. Good for her/it/whavever. All I care is if they can do their job effectively, not what gender they are.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-04-21 03:02pm

It's sad that things like this are still newsworthy.

Then: Black children admitted into white-only school!
Now: Transgendered person running for office!

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-04-21 03:11pm

Dalton wrote:It's sad that things like this are still newsworthy.

Then: Black children admitted into white-only school!
Now: Transgendered person running for office!

Hey, they gotta report SOMETHING other than the shit happening over in iraq...