french vs german popularity

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-21 11:25pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: b. We have cultural ties with Germany(the official languageof the US being German, lot by 1 count them 1 vote.

That's a myth, the US has no official language period

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-04-21 11:25pm

The official language of the Us was almost German...The issue lost by one vote.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-04-21 11:27pm

Durran Korr wrote:
b. We have cultural ties with Germany(the official languageof the US being German, lot by 1 count them 1 vote.
\

What the hell are you talking about?

Back in the 18th century, when the US had just gained it's independence, there was a vote about what the official language of the US should be. The top two contenders were English and German. German lost out by one vote. It could have gone the other way, and we could be speaking German right now...

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-04-21 11:28pm

Nope.

Go to snopes and do a search for 'one vote' fallacies. It'll turn up.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-04-21 11:29pm

Hey, that's just the story that I heard, I don't believe it...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-21 11:31pm

In any case, millions of Germans voted for the Nazi Party. This is much greater than the number of men in France's armed forces, hence greater than the number of men who surrendered. To argue that a policy of clinging to WW2 history should favour the Germans over the French is bizarre.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-21 11:33pm

Beowulf wrote:Hey, that's just the story that I heard, I don't believe it...

You shouldn't because its not true

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-04-21 11:34pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote: b. We have cultural ties with Germany(the official languageof the US being German, lot by 1 count them 1 vote.
That's a myth, the US has no official language period

Eh, I heard differenty from Herr Cole, I suppoeit doesnt matter, the cultual ties are still there. Most of the colonists where either english, or german, and most of us have german somewhere in our background...It is sort of hard to hate your cousin.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-04-21 11:36pm

at any rate, that point is conceeded.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-21 11:36pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Most of the colonists where either english, or german, and most of us have german somewhere in our background...It is sort of hard to hate your cousin.

It is? I hate the Chinese government.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-04-21 11:37pm

Darth Wong wrote:In any case, millions of Germans voted for the Nazi Party. This is much greater than the number of men in France's armed forces, hence greater than the number of men who surrendered. To argue that a policy of clinging to WW2 history should favour the Germans over the French is bizarre.

They really only had 2 choices...due to the horrible economy in Germany...Nazi-Hitler promised to rebuild their economy and make Germany great again. On both of these he suceeded

Or Communism...need I say more?

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-04-21 11:38pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Most of the colonists where either english, or german, and most of us have german somewhere in our background...It is sort of hard to hate your cousin.
It is? I hate the Chinese government.

But you dont have Chinese people, right? I think that is what he meant.

In my personal case, I am so far removed from my European ancestors that my lineage has no relevance on which countries I like or dislike.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-04-21 11:39pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Most of the colonists where either english, or german, and most of us have german somewhere in our background...It is sort of hard to hate your cousin.
It is? I hate the Chinese government.

I would ind it difficult to hate my cousin enough to want to go to war with them...especially when I just sent him a christmass card, and am only 1 generation removed from the Father Land.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-21 11:40pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Most of the colonists where either english, or german, and most of us have german somewhere in our background...It is sort of hard to hate your cousin.
It is? I hate the Chinese government.

I hate my own first cousin. Hating a country which your family is a couple generations displaced from is easy.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-21 11:46pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
I would ind it difficult to hate my cousin enough to want to go to war with them...especially when I just sent him a christmass card, and am only 1 generation removed from the Father Land.

Perhaps you have a problem with it, but the world sure doesn't. For my example I present every civil war in history. Going more specific to the US civil war it was quite common for blood brothers to be on different sides and for families to be split. However we had few problems fighting a conflict that killed 50% more Americans then World War one and two combine.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-04-21 11:59pm

I don know...I was just tryng to see things from a differet point of view.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-22 03:53am

I'd just like to once again rail against the perception that the Germans crossed the border in WW2 and the French just up and surrendered. I'm sure there's a few 1940 French vets around who would like to punch someone in the face for that. They were outfought and trounced, but they weren't cowards.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-04-22 04:01am

Did "cultural ties" prevent the Revolutinary War and the War of 1812? Or the Hundred Years' War? Or the Seven Years' War? Or the War of the Austrian Succession? Or the Spanish Civil War? Or the American Civil War? Or World War I?

The inequality of American dislike between France and Germany has little to do with cultural ties. It is a case of French culture being far easier to ridicule, of long-standing distrust and dislike for France, and of French failures being more spectacular and memorable. Franco-American relations have ranged from moderate to poor since the French Revolution, whereas the collective memory of foreign relations with Germany and Russia is much shorter.

Not that Germany and Russia are somehow "more" or "less" likeable than France. Germany was the chief opponent of both World Wars, and cheerfully put a racist, megalomaniacal murderer into power, and can claim direct and indirect responsibility for many, many millions of deaths in a roughtly thirty-year period.

Russia's autocratic traditions enabled the rise of Marxism-Leninism, one of the most devastatingly destructive developments in modern history, and put dear "Uncle Joe" into the position of making Adolf Hitler look like an amateur, and promoting "socially progressive elements" throughout the world, supporting Communist insurgents and regimes/murderers in China, Spain, Korea, Vietnam, Eastern Europe, and elsewhere. Countless millions perished in direct consequence of these policies.

But these are dreadful things, and do not easily lend themselves to mockery (aside from repeated references to Stalin's "Five Year Everybody Dies Plan"). French culture is easily made to seem frivoulous, pretentious and effeminate; French history provides several spectacular failures (e.g., thrice invaded by their German neighbours within a relatively short time period, and all three times Paris fell or nearly fell -- of course, the equally spectacular victories of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars are easily overlooked). French statesmen often seem pompous and arrogant (e.g., MM. de Gaulle and Chirac), and the French language is easily ridiculed (e.g., Peter Sellers's Inspector Clouseau).

France's unenviable misfortune is the combination of qualities that makes it a convenient, and even attractive, target. War with France was not a serious danger since the Quasi War, in the XVIII century. The United States went to war twice with Germany in the XX century, and both times Germany proved a formidable adversary, even if it lost both times. Russia was the nucleus of the USSR, the United States' formidable archenemy in the Cold War, which had the military capacity to overrun Western Europe, dominated Eastern Europe, and had the ability to destroy the United States a hundred times over.

Simply put, it is simply easier to ridicule and denigrate France than it is to do so to Germany or Russia.

Publius

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2003-04-22 04:30am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:They really only had 2 choices...due to the horrible economy in Germany...Nazi-Hitler promised to rebuild their economy and make Germany great again. On both of these he suceeded

Or Communism...need I say more?

Well the Germans ended up in that position due to their decission to turn their back on democracy. A decission resulting to a large degree from the events following WWI and the policy of the French and British goverments.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-04-22 06:36am

Media lies, and a few outspoken myth-spinners. That's all it is.

I don't hate any population or country... I might dislike some leaders or governments I feel do evil things, but stereotyping an entire population on principle? Sounds pretty stupid.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-04-22 06:54am

Meep!

Germany earned our respect by beating us in the World Cup while France was booted out quicker than if I were to stroll into a girls locker room.

Germany-Supermodels, France-hairy pits

Germany-Beer, France-Wine

Germany-Bratwurst, France-Snails

Germany-Mercedes Benz, France- the Le Baron*

Germany-German makes you sound evil when you say it right, France- makes you sound like your tongueis trying to get out of a straight jacket.

(*ok not actually France, but as of now it sounds funny)

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-04-22 07:43am

CJvR wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:They really only had 2 choices...due to the horrible economy in Germany...Nazi-Hitler promised to rebuild their economy and make Germany great again. On both of these he suceeded

Or Communism...need I say more?
Well the Germans ended up in that position due to their decission to turn their back on democracy. A decission resulting to a large degree from the events following WWI and the policy of the French and British goverments.

The people didn't turn their back on democracy.
It was more or less stupid, power-hungry politicians who thought they cuold use the NSDAP's voting block to get back to power and thought they could get Hitler to work in a normal government.
As it turned out, Hitler was smarter than them, and thus got the total power. A thing which wouldn"t have happened without the stupid Weimarian constitution of that time...

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2003-04-22 07:56am

Hitler might not have had a 50%+ share of the votes but anti-democratic parties such as the Nazis and the communists did have a majority of the Germans behind them.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-22 08:01am

Darth Fanboy wrote: Germany-Mercedes Benz, France- the Le Baron*
(*ok not actually France, but as of now it sounds funny)

mon ami, you forget the Le Car (by Renault). quite possibly the biggest piece of shit to travel by road since the Yugo.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-04-22 12:30pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Most of the colonists where either english, or german, and most of us have german somewhere in our background...It is sort of hard to hate your cousin.
It is? I hate the Chinese government.
I hate my own first cousin. Hating a country which your family is a couple generations displaced from is easy.

You should here my former Math teacher Mr. Ito talk about Japan.....

I mean we were the ones that sent him to a concentration camp as a kid!
It was our war department that sent his dad into that forest to die (Thus enabling the rescue of the Texas Armoured Cal.)
He loves the US.
Now, bring up Japan in his class.... (Prepare to die)
get caught with an issue of Shonen Jump in your back pack (Your suffering will be legendary even in High School)

edit to format to fix my own f-up