Shield tech update

[Darth Wong]

Just FYI, the Shield pages on my site have been updated for the first time in years (literally). Actually, the SW shield page is still overdue for an update, but the ST shield page was updated, and some extra information pages were added.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Shields

Non-trolling comments welcome. Troll comments will be met with napalm.

[PROMETHEUS]

j00 f0rg0rt that tr3k shIEldZ are immune to teh LAZERZ!

sorry, couldn't resist...

[neoolong]

I hear there was a scene in ST that shows Borg cutting lasers impact against the shields of the Enterprise showing that they aren't immune to lasers. Might be something worth adding if you want to. And if I'm not just imagining things.

Good job.

[Sea Skimmer]

Troll comments will be met with napalm.

Napalm sucks shit for everything but burning poppies in the Golden Triangle. I know Canukistan is backwards, but the modern world switched to cluster bombs decades ago.

Twenty billion times the sheilding.......the shooting gallery of trek isn't quite as fun now that we've put the greande launchers away and broken out the railway guns .

[Captain Underling]

I hear there was a scene in ST that shows Borg cutting lasers impact against the shields of the Enterprise showing that they aren't immune to lasers.

There's an example of Borg lasers cutting a hole through the saucer section of the Enterprise, but I'm not sure about the shields.

[NecronLord]

The borg used their shield draining tractor beam of doom to drain the shields first.

[seanrobertson]

Just FYI, the Shield pages on my site have been updated for the first time in years (literally). Actually, the SW shield page is still overdue for an update, but the ST shield page was updated, and some extra information pages were added.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Shields

Non-trolling comments welcome. Troll comments will be met with napalm.

I think this looks excellent. I like the layout. The way you sum up individual episodes' events briefly ("a Federation ship blows up when hit by the ion cannon bolt"), then hit some of them in detail, is cool...I always liked the old shield page but this is a smoother read.

I find very little that's deserving of trollish nitpicking, at all. All of your conclusions are right on target. I see a few minor details the prospective quibbler might point to (the length of a GCS), but they don't change any conclusions or the ranges therefrom.

[Slartibartfast]

The borg used their shield draining tractor beam of doom to drain the shields first.

Yes but supposedly it's the "navigational deflectors" or whatever what makes the ship "immune" to lasers, which are supposedly always on and don't stop usual weapons fire. The cube didn't drain THAT shield, it drained the main combat shield, and still the lasers could cut.

[seanrobertson]

The borg used their shield draining tractor beam of doom to drain the shields first.

Yes but supposedly it's the "navigational deflectors" or whatever what makes the ship "immune" to lasers, which are supposedly always on and don't stop usual weapons fire. The cube didn't drain THAT shield, it drained the main combat shield, and still the lasers could cut.

Exactly.

That's actually far more clear-cut than an idea I had awhile back. Bear with me!

I figured that the E-D's shuttlecraft also have nav deflectors (I think they're warp capable, so they'd have to be).

But whoops! Right after they retrieved Locutus and started moving away from the Borg cube, Data and Worf's "fresh" shuttle was blown away by a by what appeared to be one of those "type of laser beams" in "BoBW."

The trouble with that is, the shuttle was hit in the rear. That begs the question, do nav deflectors afford aft coverage when moving foreward? I believe we've seen ships go to warp "backwards," so we know nav defs can extend fwd. or aft of a ship. But do they cover both quarters at once?

I would think they probably would; thus, the shuttle's inability to stop the Borg laser also demonstrates that it's far from immune to such an attack.

Like I said, that's far more assumptive, and therefore less useful than, your idea, Slarty. In your example, someone might say, "Well, the Borg knocked the E-D's shields and deflectors both down!" However, we know that ships can have deflectors without any kind of combat shields; e.g., the NX-01. (Added note: the E-D went to warp shortly after a couple of these laser incidents w/ the Borg. We know what happens to a ship sans deflectors when it attempts as much from VGR's "Year of Hell," and we didn't see that happen in "BoBW" or "Q Who?" That's even more proof that the deflectors and combat shields are totally unrelated.)

It amazes me that people who call themselves "Trekkies" don't even understand the technology they exalt.

Well, no, it doesn't I'm just impressionable LOL.

[Crayz9000]

Honestly, I haven't noticed any real problems thus far. The Physical Impact Issue page hasn't changed at all, has it? At any rate, it's amazing how often the aspects of physical impacts are ignored.

[The Silence and I]

I like the formate Mike. Good work! I hope to see a similar revision of the SW page soon. I have few nit-picks, and I don't think any are worth mentioning anyway.

By the way, your first theory for shield operation seems to fit *most of ST's shield evidence perfectly.

[PainRack]

What about doing something for shielding dynamics?You know,how objects move through SW shields,how objects are deflected,scattered,reflected by SW shields and what criteria applies?

Ought to take you at least another 2 decade or so.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Flakbursting.

Please debunk this wetdream.

[Howedar]

No mention of the protection afforded by nav deflectors.
No mention of Trek's apparent shift towards hull-hugging shields as of DS9 and ST10.

That said, its a very solid analysis of Trek shielding.

[Ender]

1) You make mention of the Pegesus scene, you might also want to correctly redo the scene Darkstar uses to get the 100 MT yield (though wheter that would be here instead of a torp page, I don't know)

2) Shield alterations over the years. The shift to hull hugging over bubble, the fact that more modern ships can recharge their shields without dropping them like the old ones used to have to, the fact that doubleing up shields has now been shown (the Scimitar)

3) Analysis of the debris hitting the E-E from nemesis. I think it's out on DvD now so it's rentable.

4) Mention of how, since the frequency bit means that their shields are down for a split second, a beam weapon is superior to a pulse weapon as some of it is garunteed to bleed through unaffected. (though that might be a phaser page instead)

5) As I recall, the old estimate was 47 MT. The new one is 30 MT. Why the shift? I don't remeber the old page well enough for comparrison. On that note you might want to highlight the final conclusion, or move it to the bottom, as this is what most people are going to be looking for. On the other hand, the current arrangement makes sure they have to read it all through, while paying attetnion, assuring that they will likely learn something about the basic science behind it.

Think that covers it.

[Darth Wong]

1) You make mention of the Pegesus scene, you might also want to correctly redo the scene Darkstar uses to get the 100 MT yield (though wheter that would be here instead of a torp page, I don't know)

That would be the torp page. What scene did he use for this bizarre figure?

2) Shield alterations over the years. The shift to hull hugging over bubble, the fact that more modern ships can recharge their shields without dropping them like the old ones used to have to, the fact that doubleing up shields has now been shown (the Scimitar)

Yes, a couple of other guys have mentioned that.

3) Analysis of the debris hitting the E-E from nemesis. I think it's out on DvD now so it's rentable.

It is? I suppose I should check it out, then. But I don't recall seeing it at Blockbuster the last time I was there (not that they would make a big deal out of it with promotions, considering its poor box office).

4) Mention of how, since the frequency bit means that their shields are down for a split second, a beam weapon is superior to a pulse weapon as some of it is garunteed to bleed through unaffected. (though that might be a phaser page instead)

A pulse would have to be extremely short-duration for this to make a difference, considering the high shield frequencies in use.

5) As I recall, the old estimate was 47 MT. The new one is 30 MT. Why the shift? I don't remeber the old page well enough for comparrison.

I actually don't remember the old estimate. This shield page has been under construction on my hard drive for quite a while, receiving only sporadic attention until this weekend. I think the new estimate might actually be slightly HIGHER than the old estimate (assuming you're talking about the Relics shield incident).

On that note you might want to highlight the final conclusion, or move it to the bottom, as this is what most people are going to be looking for. On the other hand, the current arrangement makes sure they have to read it all through, while paying attetnion, assuring that they will likely learn something about the basic science behind it.

Think that covers it.

Yes, I might go back and tweak it a bit. There are a few points I'd probably like to add for clarification, but I figure it's usually best to let something like that sit for a while before I go back and look at it again.

[Ender]

That would be the torp page. What scene did he use for this bizarre figure?

A shot from Rise in Voyager.

It is? I suppose I should check it out, then. But I don't recall seeing it at Blockbuster the last time I was there (not that they would make a big deal out of it with promotions, considering its poor box office).

Pretty sure. I remember seeing signs for it and Harry Potter at the mall a month ago saying coming soon, and Harry Potter is out now so...

A pulse would have to be extremely short-duration for this to make a difference, considering the high shield frequencies in use.

Hadn't factored taht in. Woops.

I actually don't remember the old estimate. This shield page has been under construction on my hard drive for quite a while, receiving only sporadic attention until this weekend. I think the new estimate might actually be slightly HIGHER than the old estimate (assuming you're talking about the Relics shield incident).

As I recall it was 30,000 TW.

[Sea Skimmer]

It is? I suppose I should check it out, then. But I don't recall seeing it at Blockbuster the last time I was there (not that they would make a big deal out of it with promotions, considering its poor box office).

Amazon.com has it listed as being available May 20th, and I didn't see it at Blockbuster three days ago.

[Darth Wong]

That would be the torp page. What scene did he use for this bizarre figure?

A shot from Rise in Voyager.

Oh, that. Yeah, that's definitely one for the torp page, although it's already been pretty well refuted by MoO in his deconstruction of Darkstar's page anyway. One could go blind listing all of the bullshit incorporated into that 100MT figure.

As I recall it was 30,000 TW.

I'll have to take your word for that

Anyway, I'm fairly comfortable with the current figures. They make sense, they are difficult to attack, and they are reasonably consistent with other data, such as the torp yields from Pegasus.

[Howedar]

A pulse would have to be extremely short-duration for this to make a difference, considering the high shield frequencies in use.

It could be extremely low frequency for all we know: in typical Trek fashion, I don't believe we've seen a (real) unit on shield frequencies

[Isolder74]

My question is if they can have a Transport window in the TOS what happened to it in TNG?

There has been times that Kirk has beamed up while the ship was under attack. Why can't TNG guys do this anymore?

[His Divine Shadow]

Flakbursting.

Please debunk this wetdream.

That would be lovely, I have several interesting screens on that issue.

[Mad]

5) As I recall, the old estimate was 47 MT. The new one is 30 MT. Why the shift? I don't remeber the old page well enough for comparrison. On that note you might want to highlight the final conclusion, or move it to the bottom, as this is what most people are going to be looking for. On the other hand, the current arrangement makes sure they have to read it all through, while paying attetnion, assuring that they will likely learn something about the basic science behind it.

Evidentally the TM gives a M/AM reaction efficiency of 74% along with the 1.5 kg of AM figure. That would make the 64 MT potential yield drop to 47 MT total yield, with about 23 MT able to hit the target for an undirected torp.

I've also heard Trekkies make claims of directed torpedoes in use in the post-TNG eras. I seem to recall seeing some screenshots that looked pretty convincing, a long time ago, as well. But I'll let those more familiar with Trek confirm or deny the validity of those claims. (I don't recall offhand any concerns about starships being harmed by their own torpedoes in Voyager, either.)

[Beowulf]

My question is if they can have a Transport window in the TOS what happened to it in TNG?

There has been times that Kirk has beamed up while the ship was under attack. Why can't TNG guys do this anymore?

Why can't the TNG guys make a reactor that won't core breach when you sneeze in the vicinity?

[Ender]

As I recall it was 30,000 TW.

I'll have to take your word for that [/quote]Doh! That's the phasers. sorry, it was 200000 TW. But yeah, it fits the evidence, I was just curious as the reasons.