Stormtroopers vs THESE Federation troops

[Alyeska]

Alyeska's harping about shields is probably meaningless anyway.

SW hand weapons are powerful enough to probably drill through ST personal shielding.

E-11 or the Stormie equivalent of the Clonetrooper rifle seen in ANH on full auto....

And then again we have the compression rifles that can blow apart large piles of rocks and blow down fairly large doors. The ST weapons will do just fine against stormtroopers. And thats just the smaller weapons. You got the photon torpedo launcher, grenade launcher, and minigun even.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I never said they'd do bad, I just noted that Imperial blaster weapons could probably chew through even the toughest personal shielding with an extended rifle/carbine full-auto burst.

And besides, matching a bunch of peacekeeping police-action troopers against a mostly experimental team of elite spec-ops is sure a real match-up.

It should be Dark Troopers vs. Hazard Team.

Palpatine's Dark Troopers Corps were equipped with powered-armor based on the Phase Three Dark Trooper exosuit (which was intended for cheap mass-production for giving heavy fire support to stormies, but it ended up, thanks to Katarn, being sold in limited quantities for these spec ops). They're also trained in the Dark Side of the Force.

[Alyeska]

I never said they'd do bad, I just noted that Imperial blaster weapons could probably chew through even the toughest personal shielding with an extended rifle/carbine full-auto burst.

And besides, matching a bunch of peacekeeping police-action troopers against a mostly experimental team of elite spec-ops is sure a real match-up.

It should be Dark Troopers vs. Hazard Team.

Palpatine's Dark Troopers Corps were equipped with powered-armor based on the Phase Three Dark Trooper exosuit (which was intended for cheap mass-production for giving heavy fire support to stormies, but it ended up, thanks to Katarn, being sold in limited quantities for these spec ops). They're also trained in the Dark Side of the Force.

Actually the EU makes it fairly clear the Stormtroopers are elite assault force type troops. By the time of Thrawn taking command there were few enough of them left that he got seriously pissed when any were wasted. The standard Imperial Army is the closest thing to police type troops because they are mostly standard with pre-fab garrisons.

And yes I know I am comparing the best of one side to the high end of another. The point is that there are some good examples from Trek. I just wish it wasn't limited almost solely to the games.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Actually the EU makes it fairly clear the Stormtroopers are elite assault force type troops.

Stormtroopers are the hyped-up myth of the Iraqi Republican Guard for the Empire. They're not assault forces--they're armed with carbines and have generic white armor. We observe them in mere police work in ANH. We observe them in a garrison/occupation role as basically high-quality close-quarters infantry in ESB.

They're really good Marines. That's not the same thing as Delta Force.

The elite special forces--especially the experimental high-tech units, are the Storm Commandos and Dark Troopers. Stormtroopers are actually not optimized for forward assault like the Clonetroopers--their armor is too light and their weapons too small. They're optimized for the superpower police role. Stormtroopers singled out for large-scale combat manuvers are the Assault Troopers mentioned in the Rebellion Era Sourcebook.

By the time of Thrawn taking command there were few enough of them left that he got seriously pissed when any were wasted.

Rarity of troops does not, in itself, indicate their role. Thrawn and the rest of the Empire did not have the time for the rigorous and in-depth training that Stormtrooper volunteers recieved in the OT--remember that much of the Chimaera's crew are inexperienced conscripts. The GeNode factories that supplied the elite Stormtroopers are also cut-off from Thrawn since they are in the Deep Core.

The standard Imperial Army is the closest thing to police type troops because they are mostly standard with pre-fab garrisons.

Actually it is made quite clear that the Imperial Army is a traditional land force fighting large battles of manuever and large-scale occupation. I believe this is stated.

Pre-fab garrisons != police role. Leap of logic.

[Durandal]

How about THOSE Federation troops vs. Dark Troopers, while we're using video game creations?

Yeah, the Dark Troopers would beat the fuck out of them.

[Durandal]

Actually the EU makes it fairly clear the Stormtroopers are elite assault force type troops.

I'd hardly call a force consisting of trillions of troops "elite." They may be good, but they're not the best. Their purpose in the original trilogy was a combination of policing and a ground force.

By the time of Thrawn taking command there were few enough of them left that he got seriously pissed when any were wasted. The standard Imperial Army is the closest thing to police type troops because they are mostly standard with pre-fab garrisons.

That doesn't qualify them as "elites." In Dark Empire II, it was stated that Dark Troopers were the elites of the Empire.

And yes I know I am comparing the best of one side to the high end of another. The point is that there are some good examples from Trek. I just wish it wasn't limited almost solely to the games.

Comparing them to the clone troopers would be a more analogous comparison. Clone troopers were dedicated ground troops with no policing duties to deal with.

[Alyeska]

Of course this would be nice if Elite Force was a representation of standard SF ground forces. In the very least there ought to be a Hazard Team on every ship.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Except there isn't.

Oh well.

[Alyeska]

Except there isn't.

Oh well.

Well Elite Force 2 indicates the concept has been expanded. Except of course it ain't canon. Ah well. Can't have SFC canon either.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Comparing them to the clone troopers would be a more analogous comparison. Clone troopers were dedicated ground troops with no policing duties to deal with.

But that's erroneous. Clone troopers are basically like really good paratroopers. A fast-assault rapid-response group. Uber-marines.

The Stormie equivalent is the Assault Troopers.

And besides, the Hazard Team is special ops elite heavy assault troops, so the Dark Troopers are the best choice.

[The Silence and I]

I really like the grenade launcher extension for the otherwise canon rifles, it looks like it could really work.
At any rate, I think these guys/gals could maybie win. At the very least they could cause some serious pain (Each should be able to take out the other, and Hazzard Team seems well trained enough to compete.)

[Vympel]

There is no canon/official difference between Stormtroopers and Clonetroopers that I have ever seen.

1: In ANH we see Stormtroopers armed with a variety of weapons that are just as large as the Clonetrooper rifle. Just because Stormtroopers are armed with carbines (the most logical close quarter weapon) most of the time doesn't mean they can't use anything else.

2: There's nothing to suggest that Clonetrooper armor is actually thicker, though it is more complicated and actually offers less coverage to vital body parts.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Did the Desert STs carry any carbines?

[Illuminatus Primus]

You miss my point: the Clonetroopers simply do not fill the same niche that Stormtroopers did.

Ordinary stormtroopers are well-trained "global policeman" and "urban pacification" type troops. They also fill shipboarding and occupation/garrison roles. They're high-quality jack-of-all-trades troops most suited for small-scale combat.

Clonetroopers are far more highly trained (in comparison to Stormtroopers) fast-response troops. They feel like a heavily mechanized version of paratroopers in SW to me. They're definitely optimized for the heaviest and largest-scale combat as well as fortifying and defending the most important strategic targets.

Assault Troopers (ref: Rebellion Era Sourcebook) are the specialist Stormtroopers that fill the fast-response assault and heavy combat roles that the Clonetroopers had occupied. They're equipped with heavy rifles and heavy combat armor. They're also better trained than the ordinary Stormtrooper. The special-environment Stormtrooper subtypes also fill this role, but for each their respective environment.

Ordinary Stormtroopers usually fill the garrison/fortifation of important installations role that the Clonetroopers also held.

[Darth Fanboy]

So the trek fanboys get to yank it to the ideal federation soldier and the women wearing them?

Spare me.

[His Divine Shadow]

Spare me.

No.

*shoots Fanboy in the head*

[Darth Fanboy]

Spare me.

No.

*shoots Fanboy in the head*

Fortunately I have one of those fed jumpsuits on that defeat any and all weaponry due to technobabble.

[His Divine Shadow]

Fortunately I have one of those fed jumpsuits on that defeat any and all weaponry due to technobabble.

Bah, they're nothing next to my robotic evil Emu's

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

That transporter buffer thing annoys me....sounds like a technobabble Doraemon 4D pouch.

And it is unlikely the Hazard team will win, if the personal shields use Trektech, that means firepower will still do harm to the person, reducing their combat ability and lowering the whole team efficiency.

[Alyeska]

That transporter buffer thing annoys me....sounds like a technobabble Doraemon 4D pouch.

And it is unlikely the Hazard team will win, if the personal shields use Trektech, that means firepower will still do harm to the person, reducing their combat ability and lowering the whole team efficiency.

Incorrect. The shields provide absolute protection.

[Shogoki]

Fortunately I have one of those fed jumpsuits on that defeat any and all weaponry due to technobabble.

Unless you get kicked in the arse, because then you get a core breach and die.

[Vympel]

Incorrect. The shields provide absolute protection.

Too bad it's not canon ...

God forbid that B&B would ever think of something that cool (though I still think the clear visors are a dumbass idea).

[Shogoki]

Say, all this fanncy transporter buffer thing, doesn't that mean some jamming will screw all their LCD's and stuff?

[Alyeska]

Say, all this fanncy transporter buffer thing, doesn't that mean some jamming will screw all their LCD's and stuff?

There was an energy dampening field all throughout the area that the Hazard Team first operated yet their equipment performed perfectly. It was enough to disable most of Voyager's systems but the Hazard Suits operated just fine.

[Shogoki]

I find that quite stupid, maybe they should put some of whatever they have in their capital ships.