"There were expectations of a new Vietnam," said Yuri Fyodorov, a deputy director of the PIR-Center, an independent Russian think-tank.
Russian generals and diplomats, who predicted an all-out battle for Baghdad, relied on Russia's own botched experience in storming Grozny, the capital of the small rebel region of Chechnya that was virtually destroyed during the first war 1994-1996.
"The U.S. victory in Iraq has become an unpleasant surprise for the Russian political and military elite, which based its plans on the assumption that the Americans would get bogged down in Iraq," said Yevgeny Volk, head of the U.S. think tank Heritage Foundation's Moscow office.
The Iraqi army closely copied the Soviet military organization and tactics and was equipped with mostly Soviet-built tanks, aircraft and missiles. Although official military contacts were severed after the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, some retired Russian generals reportedly visited Baghdad just days before the U.S.-led attacks started in March to advise its defenders.
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I think the big difference is that in Checnya, the population wished to fight, and in Baghdad, they wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussein.
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
I think a lot of the world's Shitbirds are rethinking their stance on the "Great Satan"-- and their abilities to stand up to it...
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around! If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!! Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
What's there to be shocked about, really? The US had total air dominance, vastly technologically superior and better maintained (and manned) equipment and a working command structure whereas Iraq's best efforts were to put up half-handed resistance at half a dozen spots all over the country without any coordination or actual tactical plan involved.
I don't see how that should demand a restructuring of a rather potent military force like the Russian one...
I highly doubt this story. The Russians are well aware both that Iraqi equipment is a generation or two behind what they currently have and that Iraqi actually didn't use much Soviet doctrine or organization. They used the British military as their model.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
His Divine Shadow wrote:Zhe soviet empire shall rise again!
Well- not Soviet. But the spectre of the might of the Red Army hangs over Russian generals heads, and they want that power and fearsomeness back.
All they need is money. And more force cuts combined with a switch over to a full professional military system (currently being tested among one of the elite airborne divisions, to be applied generally starting from 2007, apparently).
"Carriers dispense fighters, which dispense assbeatings." - White Haven
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His Divine Shadow wrote:No! We need the soviets, the red stars, the AK's the massed conscript infantry, we need bad guys.
Well- today's bad guys really suck ass.
The Chinese make so-so bad guys.
The Chinese however can't get anywhere outside of there own country in any strength, though they'd could conventionally bomb America.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Vympel wrote:
Meh. Every year their military funding goes up anyway- maybe they decided to increase it by a larger factor.
They where raising it by 10-12% a year for quite some time. But I doubt they've been sustaining it more recently. There weapons are becoming more expensive and there economy is slowing down.
Russia's defense budget goes up every year too- sometimes doubling. More money ... need ... more ... money ...
At one point in the mid 90's the Russian military budget was within a few hundred million of that of the city of Philadelphia. Doubling every year doesn't give you very much.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Stravo wrote:Does anyone have firm numbers on the Soviet military budget. I heard at its height they were spending 25% of their GDP on the military.
One of the Soviets biggest economic problems was they where spending resources rather then money, and never had a good picture of how many resources actually existed to be spent. That made it near impossible to tell if a program was inefficient or wasteful, so things only got canceled on technical grounds. Any form of firm numbers beyond a percentage of GDP would be meaningless.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
darthdavid wrote:Sea Skimmer, Is that the OCIW in your avatar?
*Takes a look.*
Yes, Skimmer has an OICW in his AV
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
Russia simply needs to scale back its military into a small elite program similiar to that of Britian or France. Their insistance on keeping a large standing army, navy, and air force is simply not practical considering the resources they have to spend, and is simply causing the quality of said forces to suffer dramaticly.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
Do they still have conscripotion in effect or are they switching over to a more professional force? I'm wondering what the statistics are for Western powers and how many conscript as opposed to a volunteer force and whether the last few decades of stunning successes by the US's professional volunteer military against conscript armies is a factor in any change towards that system.
Wherever you go, there you are.
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Stravo wrote:Do they still have conscripotion in effect or are they switching over to a more professional force? I'm wondering what the statistics are for Western powers and how many conscript as opposed to a volunteer force and whether the last few decades of stunning successes by the US's professional volunteer military against conscript armies is a factor in any change towards that system.
They are committed to having a professional force by the end of this decade- with a airborne division being entirely professional to try out the results, as well as the 201st Motorized Rifle Division (rumored to have operated the 'lend-lease' upgraded T-55s used by the Northern Alliance against the Taliban during 'Enduring Freedom') which is stationed in Tajikistan. 2007 is the date given.
At one point in the mid 90's the Russian military budget was within a few hundred million of that of the city of Philadelphia. Doubling every year doesn't give you very much.
True, but the mid-90s was hardly the high point of the post-Soviet military experience- thankfully. I'd go so far to say it was the lowest of the low- except for perhaps 1998.
Some 130bn rubles ($4.2bn) are necessary to man units of the Russian Armed Forces with voluntary enlistees, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Ivanov declared at a news conference today. According to him, by June 1, 2003 proposals concerning the financial aspects of these reforms will be worked out and submitted to the President in order to include them in the 2004 budget. The minister pointed out that in the period from 2004 to 2007 some 209 units (176,000 servicemen) will be manned with voluntary enlistees. In particular, these are 79 army units, 7 Marine units, 5 airborne divisions, 83 units of the Federal Border Service, 5 units of the interior troops and 28 units of the railroad troops. Ivanov stressed that these were units of constant combat readiness. April 24 2003
and
The Russian Defense Ministry is ready to consider the question of decreasing the term of service for conscripts to one year, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Ivanov declared at a press conference in Moscow today. According to him, if the federal program on manning armed forces with voluntary enlistees is implemented in a full volume, the ministry will be ready to consider this question at the end of 2007. It is planned that after 2007 a conscript will be trained at a military training center for the first six months of his service and then will be sent to a unit. The minister stressed that the final task of the program was the manning of all units of the armed forces with voluntary enlistees.
