"Star Wars tech is completely fanboy and implausible.&q

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I registered as "ChuckSmitty", but I don't think I'll be posting much, just enough to debate some of them.

[Ender]

*waves at all the TrekBBSers who come here to view us and wonders if any of them will have the stomach to join and stay*

[T-1000]

I registered and im officially going to start handing these morons their asses as soon as my registration is approved. Though im sure that i will be banned in less than a week by some moron administrator who refuses to believe the facts.

Oh please, you are registering for the sole purpose of insulting everyone on the board. If I were the board's administrator, I would ban you in a second. You've got a picture calling for flame warriors, who wouldn't ban you when you showed up on some message board and started attacking everyone there.

Don't get me wrong, I think these guys need a serious wake up call, but this attitude is just wrong. Board raiding never works, and it makes you the bad guy since you are going over there to get everyone riled up.

[Currald]

Seriously. If they ban you, it will be for flaming, pure and simple.

STvSW just doesn't come up very often on that board. Maybe once a year. There are some smart people on that board, but most of them would avoid something like SWvST (No offense, guys. I happen to love the work that goes on here, but it isn't everyone's cup of tea).

Anyway, I think I landed a few good hits in my superior Kinnison guise, but there are just so damn many of them! That place is huge!

Oh well, y'all have opened my eyes to the glory of SF number-crunching, and I'll never look back. You can count me as a TrekBBSer who came over and was converted.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

I registered and im officially going to start handing these morons their asses as soon as my registration is approved. Though im sure that i will be banned in less than a week by some moron administrator who refuses to believe the facts.

Oh please, you are registering for the sole purpose of insulting everyone on the board. If I were the board's administrator, I would ban you in a second. You've got a picture calling for flame warriors, who wouldn't ban you when you showed up on some message board and started attacking everyone there.

Don't get me wrong, I think these guys need a serious wake up call, but this attitude is just wrong. Board raiding never works, and it makes you the bad guy since you are going over there to get everyone riled up.

No moron, im registering because i find it entertaining to prove kids like these wrong and then laugh my ass off when they try to babble something in response. I haven't thrown a single insult yet and im not planning to unless someone insults me first.
What the fuck are you talking about dipshit? Started attacking everyone, get a fucking grip man i typed two responses to a single thread and posted not a single insult.

They sure do and im glad to offer it to them. Im not raiding jack, i noticed that these people dont have the slightest grasp of the reality and i decided
kindly to offer them some enlightement.The only thing that makes me the
bad guy over there is the fact that i disprove their little fantasies, they will
consider me as the bad guy because of that.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Seriously. If they ban you, it will be for flaming, pure and simple.

STvSW just doesn't come up very often on that board. Maybe once a year. There are some smart people on that board, but most of them would avoid something like SWvST (No offense, guys. I happen to love the work that goes on here, but it isn't everyone's cup of tea).

Anyway, I think I landed a few good hits in my superior Kinnison guise, but there are just so damn many of them! That place is huge!

Oh well, y'all have opened my eyes to the glory of SF number-crunching, and I'll never look back. You can count me as a TrekBBSer who came over and was converted.

If we can save only one mind, our sacrifice will have been worth it...

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Okay! I have now been banned, apparently for this little exchange in the Fanfics forum, regarding The Strange And Terrible Journey of Leah Brahms:

Posted by visionrazor:

Posted by Tamar Garish:
Daniel Kaden or Micheal Wong...hmmm. Two pen names? Does someone steal more than Burger King?

Really, you should just call yourself Marty Stu.

You, Tamar, are an idiot.

Anyway...

A virus could very easily cause the physical destruction of a starship by interfering with the program that controls the anti-matter containment fields. No containment = Big Boom.

No automatic shutdown and ejection of the antimatter containment in the event of computer failure=equals no failsafes=bad design.

Blaming Leah Brahms personally..especially to the point of a lawsuit is ridiculous.

Leah Brahms failure to implement passive safety systems in a major Federation starship design, a design which was approved by Starfleet for occupancy by civilian dependents of officers assigned to that ship, equal culpable professional negligence.

Upon which one of their mods pounced thusly:

Posted by RevdKathy:
visionrazor receives one flaming warning for this

You, Tamar, are an idiot.

Cool down or I'll close this thread.

Well, she obviously did better than close the thread -- she came to the brilliant conclusion that since a "n00b" was calling a "veteran's" ass on the carpet for flagrant idiocy, it would be a good idea to ban the n00b to prevent further embarrassment. Best I can figure, anyway. :rolleyes:

[Enforcer Talen]

which is why I stay at sdnet. . .

[XaLEv]

Ugh

Third - running the numbers, a single turbolaser blast should be able to wipe out all life on a planet, possibly cracking the crust, and have a few dozen chew a planet up.

Somebody get this guy to define what he means by "wipe out all life", "cracking the crust" and "chew a planet up", then beat him in the face with Chicxulub.

First, we have evidence from TESB that ship-board sensors are indeed limited by light - probe droids. They would be unnecessary with FTL sensors - given how gargantuan the numbers are supposed to be for everything else, I'm utterly shocked that the sensors aboard an ISD can't see a single nucleotide from across the galaxy...

Classic black and white fallacy.

[His Divine Shadow]

Well, thats what happens when people drink turpentine.

[XaLEv]

Yeah, but this is a single bolt that could do that. With 150x2 guns, the ISD is a terror weapon in and of itself, assuming the above stats.

Yep, somebody definitely needs to impose a sense of scale on this guy.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Perhaps i need to show this guy the calcs i made that even with 100 000, 200 gigaton normal turbolasers it would take roughly 40 million years to reach the same level of energy that the Death Stars superlaser dished out in less than a second.

[Darth Servo]

Damn, they locked the forum. Here's was my last reply I was working on.

So if I don't respond to something immediately, it's almost certainly because I have much better things to do, such as the one thing it is apparent you don't have: a life. Get one. It includes sleeping, eating, various other activities during the day, etc.

This AFTER the pro-trek side jumps on us for flaming? You think you can prove you're better simply by accusing us of not having a life? Wow, how original. You're only about, oh, the millionth person to try this underhanded and useless tactic.

First - basis for turbolaser mechanism - Star Wars Guide to Weapons and Technology. The first entry describes the workings of a blaster carbine, and either implies, or directly states (I don't have it in front of me and don't intend to get it), that the basic principle is used on up through the levels all the way to the superlaser with only minor modifications. That principle involves shooting Xcited gas ions coupled with light - a plasma weapon.

OK. So how does this tell us ANYTHING about how powerful TLs are?

As for the elevator mechanism, it's shown that it can't aim down at all in various movies, and confirmed in the Guide to Weapons and Technology

The only ones we see close enough for this is on the DS and since they are already AT THE SURFACE, they don't NEED to aim down, otherwise they'd be shooting at their OWN SURFACE. The turrets on the Trade Fed battleship clearly didn't have this problem. Do you know what a hasty generalization fallacy is?

Besides, the turrets on the DS were designed to attack LARGE CAPITAL SHIPS, not tiny one-man fighters. A GCS would NEVER be able to exploit this little problem. You don't evaluate a piece of equipment based on something it wasn't designed to do in the first place. Do you also criticise a hammer because it can't turn screws?

Second - I was indeed off about the length, however, going after that is about as good as going after the waste heat, and significantly worse in fact, given that my mistake gave you the advantage. When you do not even take advantage of something like that, indeed not even attacking me for it, for the sake of accuracy, that is called an "obsession".

[sarcasm]Oh yes, it is indeed a bad thing to be worried about accuracy. How silly of us.[/sarcasm]

And as I already pointed out, the waste heat issue is a red herring.

Third - running the numbers, a single turbolaser blast should be able to wipe out all life on a planet, possibly cracking the crust, and have a few dozen chew a planet up.

No numbers to back you up. Even with 100,000 200 gigaton normal turbolasers it would take roughly 40 million years to reach the same level of energy of the Death Stars superlaser.

Why? The TESB asteroid search for the Millennium Falcon. The hulls of an ISD are supposedly neutronium infused (another impossibility in and of itself - that would add so much mass (1 billion tons per TEASPOON) that the sublight engines would knock planets out of their solar orbits, and low-mass stars off their galactic orbit. This is clearly not the case, as such power should blow away an asteroid field quite easily),

The ISD armor isn't SOLID neutronium. It has neutronium pellets imbedded within it.

meaning that it would take a solid platinum or exotic mineral asteroid (perhaps that iridium-osmide or whatever it was) to be heavy and dense enough to destroy even the bridge of an ISD, as obviously happened.

The bridge of the ISD was completly obscured by asteroid debris therefore it was NOT obviously destroyed. We can SEE the commander STANDING and ALIVE seconds AFTER the asteroid impact so the bridge tower obviously was NOT destroyed by the impact. All we know is that the asteroid impact caused an explosion on the bridge that the commander reacted to and then cut communication but as far as the canon facts are concerned, we don't even know for sure that the man in question even died.

Yet these same asteroids (and the probability of asteroids like that ever forming is so incredibly low as to make calculating the odds hard for C3PO; the effective probability is 0) are easily blown up by the turbolasers. Therefore, we can safely expect that the crust of a planet, being of far less dense composition than any such hypothetical asteroid, would crack with a single turbolaser blast. This is obviously not the case, so someone's numbers are wrong, and frankly, I'm inclined to believe they're yours. Without the planet-cracking, there's no asteroid-blowing-up, unless there's no superdense asteroids. No super-dense asteroids means no destroyed bridge, unless no neutronium-infused armor. No neutronium infused armor means that, yes, it really is vulnerable. As a slight side-effect, it also means your power levels for the turbolaser are off by huge orders magnitude, since they're based on being able to crack a crust, which they can't, since there'd be no need for a Death Star. AND to further that, it also means your shields are off by orders of magnitude, since otherwise they would work indefinitely, which is also obviously not the case.

1) Our numbers aren't wrong. I would have said yours are but you didn't even PROVIDE any numbers. A number needs to be cited before it can be wrong.

2) The power of TLs is based on the OBSERVED vaporising of the asteroids using a common iron asteroid and the BDZ operation (rendering a planet completely uninhabitable) from the EU. Where did you get the idea that an ISD was unable to do serious damage to a planet?

Fourth - subspace is, in SW, as per the Guide to Weapons and Technology (courier craft page), a slow but FTL and long-distance message transport medium. In ST, it is the bubble of spacetime that a ship wraps itself in during warp flight. Because it is not part of classical (and I mean classical in the Heisenberg probability-state sense) space, an infinite number of "domains" or universes exist within it. This sounds different to me.

All you did was list ONE use of subspace in SW and ONE use in ST. You IGNORED the fact that Subspace is ALSO used for communications in ST, so you have ZERO evidence for any differences.

Fifth - the sensors of the SW are apparently not consistently FTL or sublight, but there are ways of determining what would be on board an ISD.

What the hell does determining the contents of an ISD have to do with the speed of the signal?

First, we have evidence from TESB that ship-board sensors are indeed limited by light - probe droids. They would be unnecessary with FTL sensors - given how gargantuan the numbers are supposed to be for everything else :rolleyes:, I'm utterly shocked that the sensors aboard an ISD can't see a single nucleotide from across the galaxy...

Range and accuracy have nothing to do with signal speed. Try not to introduce so many red herrings in your next post. The probe-droids were a cheap way to increase the sensor net into unexplored regions of the galaxy. The fact that the Imperials picked up the signal from the probe droid at all proves FTL sensors. The Hoth system was many LIGHT YEARS away from the Imperial fleets position. I repeat. If the Imperials can detect a FTL communications signal, they can use that same system for FTL sensors.

And that fleet was supposedly relatively near the Hoth system.

You still haven't provided any ACTUAL NUMBERS to back up your statements. Hoth was the 6th planet in the system. Assuming a solar system like ours, even if the Imperial fleet was right outside of Pluto's orbit, that would be 2,779,000,000 miles away. A light speed signal would require about four HOURS to travel that distance. Yet the base and the fleet knew about each other within seconds.

You can't just say something like, "they didn't get the information instantly therefore they don't have FTL sensors". FTL isn't instantaneous across the galaxy.

Really, an ion cannon and a planetary shield generator should have shown up on the most rudimentary FTL scan.

They DID show up on that scan (minor nit-pick, the Hoth shield was not a planetary one. It only covered part of the planet unlike the Endor or Alderaan shields which covered the entire planet)

General Veers (paraphrased): Comscan has detected an energy shield protecting an area of the sixth planet of the system.

There is also evidence from The Paradise Snare (especially The Hutt Gambit) through Rebel Dawn, as well as books by Timothy Zahn (Heir to the Empire through Vision of the Future).

Yet you don't even quote the evidence in question. Don't expect me to go around hunting down evidence you were too lazy to provide yourself. Just citing the name of a book is NOT evidence.

There is of course the matter of seeing the Imperial Fleet from Hoth, but this just leads to the eminently reasonable conclusion that while ship's sensors may be limited by light, planetary sensors OTOH, are not.

So you admit that planetary sensors are indeed FTL. Then WHY would superior Imperial equipment be limited in a way that the poor rebel's equipment was not? The two forces learned of each other in roughly the same amount of time. If one was FTL, then BOTH must be FTL if they went about the same speed.

Do I really need to spell such simple things out for you? And you wonder why we say you're an idiot.

Sixth - back to shields. The Guide to Weapons and Technology again proves that shields can be configured to block blaster bolts (including turbolasers) or ion cannon bolts, but not both.

Care to provide the EXACT quote?

Also, it's clear that there is a ray shield and a particle shield, and that not everything gets stopped by either - case in point Anakin in TPM. How'd he get through the droid-ship's shield if nothing else could?

So if YOU can't personally figure out another possibility, then it must be impossible? Ever heard of the false dilema fallacy

Anakin slipped through the shield during a brief moment the hanger shield was lowered to allow droid fighters to launch. We SAW partical sheidls protecting the Gungan city and the Gungan sub (keeping the water out).

If he can do that (and I refuse to believe that there's a hole in the shields where the entrance to the ship is), then my shuttle-beaming-explosives is a perfectly valid maneuver.

You need to do a lot better than that to say you can transport an explosive on board a SW ship since practiaclly ANYTHING can block transporters.

A bit unorthodox perhaps, but then that's one thing a crew of a GCS has that that of an ISD doesn't - innovation.

If they are so "innovative" they how come NO ONE in the entire history of Trek has ever attempted this tactic in a CANON episode. If they won't use it against their current enemies, they won't use it against the imperials either.

Seventh - antimatter is quite dangerous, in any universe. According to either The Hutt Gambit, or Rebel Dawn, half a gram (or one and a half grams, but does it matter?) of the stuff destroyed the mascot moon of Cardia. If some hits the hull near the antimatter storage pods, you get worried quick.

First, you are still citing sources without providing the actual quotes from those books. Textbook appeal to authority fallacy. Second, Anti-matter still needs matter to react with to produce its destructive effects. Against an ISD's immaterial shield it does precisely squat.

Eighth - Maneuverability and speed. I never said there was a blind spot large enough for a GCS on the ISD, merely that there was one. And yes, the GCS is quite maneuverable, thanks to the IDF (no, not the Israeli Defense Force, the Inertial Dampening Field) and SIF. It certainly handles better in an asteroid belt, don't you think?

You still don't provide any actual NUMBERS for actual speed. You just recite more and more meangless technobabble. The IDF doesn't mean squat compared to the OBSERVED combat speeds in the CANON episodes, which is never more than a few kps.

As for Asteroid fields, in "Genesis" they didn't even ATTEMPT to enter an asteroid field because it was too dangerous even though it didn't have anywhere near the concentration or violence of the Hoth asteroid field.

Speed advantage also clearly goes to the GCS based on the 100-600 millicochrane-level subspace field generated around the ship to lower its mass and thus inertia.

How many times do I need to say this: technobabble does NOT tell us how fast the ship actuall goes.

ISDs have never been portrayed as anything but mountains with guns, with all the speed and maneuverability that implies.

Really

Ninth - If Red Leader said magnetic field, and the field isn't a shield (given the usefulness of a magnetic distortion field for blocking blast bolts), then where IS the Death Star's shield? I refuse to believe that they'd leave it vulnerable like that, and given the "hypermatter" reactor, it should have been fairly easy to incorporate a shielding system beyond a simple ray shield at a single vulnerable point.

So much stupidity, so little time.

1) Just because Red leader made reference to a "magnetic field" that doesn't mean thats the DS's only defense mechanism, or even that the "magnetic field" even was a defense mechanism.

2) Where is the evidence that a "magnetic distortion field" can block blaster bolts?

3) The Gungan theater shields proved that slow moving objects (droid soldiers) can pass through a shield while other objects (droid tanks) could not. The Droidekas blaster bolts passed effortlessly through thier own shields on the way out yet those same bolts bounced off the shield harmlessly when Obi-wan and Qui-gon relfected them back with their lightsabers.

4) General Dodanna, ANH breifing: "The battle station is HEAVILY SHIELDED and carries a firepower greater than half the starfleet."

5) The DS shield clearly kept the debris from the Alderaan explosion from doing any damage to the battle station.

I'd think of a tenth one, but it's late, and I've spent more time than I intended to already on this.

Considering the poor quality of 1-9, don't bother.

[Cyborg Stan]

Damn, they locked the forum. Here's was my last reply I was working on.

You sure on this? It just seems they put in something to delay people slightly.

[Cyborg Stan]

Nevermind.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Well that was pathetic, immidietly when the Trekkie bullshit is being shuved back to their throats an admin comes and closes the thread. Fucking pathetic, it seems that reason,logic and real facts were just
too much for them

[Oberleutnant]

I have been lurking the TrekBBS board for a long time and thinking about joining on numerous occasions. Not that anyone really cares, but I didn't like what I saw in that thread. When there were no "Warsies" present they were all anxiously discussing how SW would lose, but when you presented them firm evidence that didn't suit their opinion, many of them simply refused to accept it. If they had admitted that they were wrong or even bothered to explain their wild theories it would have been ok, but not this way.

Frankly speaking their response was pretty pathetic. When the 'Rabid Warsies' came and initiated their Imperial Smackdown(tm), the tone of their desperate voice changed to: "But none of this is real! Imperator-class vessels or Galaxies don't exist - get a life, st00pid Warsie!"

[Darth Servo]

Frankly speaking their response was pretty pathetic. When the 'Rabid Warsies' came and initiated their Imperial Smackdown(tm), the tone of their desperate voice changed to: "But none of this is real! Imperator-class vessels or Galaxies don't exist - get a life, st00pid Warsie!":roll:

Standard operating procedure for the defeated trekkie. They know they've had their ass kicked but don't want to cry uncle. We've all seen it many times before.

[Currald]

Well that was pathetic, immidietly when the Trekkie bullshit is being shuved back to their throats an admin comes and closes the thread. Fucking pathetic, it seems that reason,logic and real facts were just
too much for them

They closed the thread because it was turned into a flame warzone. Flaming is against the rules of the TrekBBS. The admins don't care which franchise has the bigger guns.

[Darth Servo]

Well that was pathetic, immidietly when the Trekkie bullshit is being shuved back to their throats an admin comes and closes the thread. Fucking pathetic, it seems that reason,logic and real facts were just
too much for them

They closed the thread because it was turned into a flame warzone. Flaming is against the rules of the TrekBBS. The admins don't care which franchise has the bigger guns.

Well, that was the excuse they uesd.

[Warspite]

Speed advantage also clearly goes to the GCS based on the 100-600 millicochrane-level subspace field generated around the ship to lower its mass and thus inertia.

... ... ...Words fail me... Pulling technobabble like this, and they claim "we" don't have a life?

[Currald]

Well that was pathetic, immidietly when the Trekkie bullshit is being shuved back to their throats an admin comes and closes the thread. Fucking pathetic, it seems that reason,logic and real facts were just
too much for them

They closed the thread because it was turned into a flame warzone. Flaming is against the rules of the TrekBBS. The admins don't care which franchise has the bigger guns.

Well, that was the excuse they uesd.

Well, they couldn't very well have used that excuse if there had been no flaming, now, could they have?

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

They closed the thread because it was turned into a flame warzone. Flaming is against the rules of the TrekBBS. The admins don't care which franchise has the bigger guns.

Well, that was the excuse they uesd.

Well, they couldn't very well have used that excuse if there had been no flaming, now, could they have?

Hell, I got banned for calling someone an idiot who was clearly an idiot. The fact that I went on to demonstrate why this person was an idiot was apparently irrelevant, as was the fact that I even went so far as to apologize for it when it was pointed out to be in breach of the rules. (See, "Strange and Terrible Journey of Leah Brahms" in the TBBS Fanfic forum.)

This, despite having been at the receiving end of far worse in the same forum earlier, with no warnings issued to those on the delivering end of those flames. (Fanfic forum, Lit forum, TNZ.)

I think we all know how to spell "favoritism."...

[XaLEv]

Well, those are the rules.

Course, it doesn't mean they aren't a bunch of thin skinned illogical asshats.

[Ajaz50]

Haven't these people ever herd of a little thing called proof?