Logic question

[Ender]

In my LJ community, there have recently been issues with a creepy stalker fuck who harasses some of the women in the group.

In one of his more recent posts in comments, he defeneded the existance and watching of child pornography.

Needless to say, he was immediately ripped to shreds, though not literally unfortunatly.

In it, I took the position that this is a rare black and white issue, that you either actively oppose it for the flat out evil that the sexual assault and raping of children it is; or that those who condone it and enjoy it are every bit as bad as those who go out and commit the act because the production of such material in the first place necessitates the asault and rape of a child that the inhuman trash later enjoys.

Looking back now, I want to know if I was right, or if this is a false argument.


Sorry if this violates any board rules.

[Lord of the Farce]

This, I think, is one of the fairly rare instances where the issue is pretty much black and white. Just the thought of a child being abused like that makes me want to send heads rolling... and I'm usually a fucking pacifist!

[RedImperator]

I usually don't like arguments like that because it's used to justify hurting a lot of people for commiting victimless crimes (drug users, primarily--that's my angry issue, in case you hadn't noticed), but in this case, the argument works because child pornography is near the bottom of the list of things people create as far as sheer unadulterated horrific shit goes. It's no better than getting off on videos of adult women getting raped (for real, not just acting in some shitty raincoat production).

[David]

The only way to justify this is to say the child was consenting. What proponents of this arguement fail to realize, or refuse to realize, is that a child is incapable of making that type of decision. If anyone wants to argue that point I'll slap the shit out of them with my Human growth and Development book.

[Joe]

Child pornography/pedophilia is one of those issues that is so disgusting that it beneath debunking through logical argument. Circular reasoning works fine for me.

"You will not molest children - no, I don't care if it is in your nature, I don't care if you've done it before and you know it is loving and compassionate, I don't care if you are sure that children are capable of consent - the answer is no. This is just something you will not do. Period."

[Queeb Salaron]

Pedophilia is wrong. Period.

The graphical depictions of children in sexual situations is only created to satisfy pedophilia, and therefore it too is wrong. Period.



Pedophiles should be shot. Period.

[Montcalm]

Pedophilia is wrong. Period.

The graphical depictions of children in sexual situations is only created to satisfy pedophilia, and therefore it too is wrong. Period.



Pedophiles should be shot. Period.

Being shot is just too good for those fuckers,i would throw them in shredders.

[Enricko]

Being shot is just too good for those fuckers,i would throw them in shredders.

I say we should immure them! Slow, long, lonely death

[Joe]

Eye-for-an-eye justice sounds good to me. Since they rape kids half their size, let them be raped by people twice THEIR size.

[Enricko]

Eye-for-an-eye justice sounds good to me. Since they rape kids half their size, let them be raped by people twice THEIR size.

How are you gonna train gorillas (or donkey) to butt rape them?

[Montcalm]

Eye-for-an-eye justice sounds good to me. Since they rape kids half their size, let them be raped by people twice THEIR size.

How are you gonna train gorillas (or donkey) to butt rape them?

Maybe covering them with the scent of female gorillas in heat.

[Queeb Salaron]

Eye-for-an-eye justice sounds good to me. Since they rape kids half their size, let them be raped by people twice THEIR size.

How are you gonna train gorillas (or donkey) to butt rape them?

You don't have to. The offensive line of the Pittsburgh Steelers will do just fine.

[Kuroneko]

Eye-for-an-eye justice sounds good to me. Since they rape kids half their size, let them be raped by people twice THEIR size.

How are you gonna train gorillas (or donkey) to butt rape them?

All such problems can be resolved by Bubba.

[Ignorant twit]

Just to play devils advocate, what about computer generated kiddie porn? I.e. NO live participants, just a sick and lonely guy on a computer making exceptionally high quality pictures, bit by bit if needed?

Is this still no victim, no crime?

[Admiral Johnason]

Pedifiles should go through a process of brain washing till either they vegitize or correct conform with socity. This should also apply to Nazis.

[Queeb Salaron]

Pedifiles should go through a process of brain washing till either they vegitize or correct conform with socity. This should also apply to Nazis.

Ain't it too bad that our Constitution protects the Nazis and perverts until they cross the line?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

In my LJ community, there have recently been issues with a creepy stalker fuck who harasses some of the women in the group.

In one of his more recent posts in comments, he defeneded the existance and watching of child pornography.

Needless to say, he was immediately ripped to shreds, though not literally unfortunatly.

In it, I took the position that this is a rare black and white issue, that you either actively oppose it for the flat out evil that the sexual assault and raping of children it is; or that those who condone it and enjoy it are every bit as bad as those who go out and commit the act because the production of such material in the first place necessitates the asault and rape of a child that the inhuman trash later enjoys.

Looking back now, I want to know if I was right, or if this is a false argument.


Sorry if this violates any board rules.

That's right. Child pornographers wouldn't do what they do if they didn't think there wasn't an audience for it. So really, anybody who condones, or even tolerates child pornography contributes to the problem.

And any form of child pornography is non-consentual child abuse. You can talk a child into doing just about anything, and when that fails, you can fall back on "because I said so." Doesn't necessarily mean that they understand what you're getting them to do. Hence, children are incapable of giving actual consent.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Just to play devils advocate, what about computer generated kiddie porn? I.e. NO live participants, just a sick and lonely guy on a computer making exceptionally high quality pictures, bit by bit if needed?

Is this still no victim, no crime?

Ahh, counterpoint. This computer generated kiddie porn gets the interest of the casual pervert. The casual pervert then becomes curious to see what the real thing is like. This leads to him (or her) to download kiddie porn off KaZaa, which does have real participants, and real victims. As a result, that form of child pornography could encourage the viewing of child pornography which does victimize children.

[Raptor 597]

Pedifiles should go through a process of brain washing till either they vegitize or correct conform with socity. This should also apply to Nazis.

Ain't it too bad that our Constitution protects the Nazis and perverts until they cross the line?

Eh, the First Amendament does exist for a reason...And the line is set properly where it is or in he correct area. Why stop at Nazis? Why not Fundies? Why not people or political parties you hate? The same goes for an opposite person hating you. It's merely your opinion, not law. Nazis may be fucked up but nothing should or can be done unless they get violent.

[Morat]

Child pornography/pedophilia is one of those issues that is so disgusting that it beneath debunking through logical argument.

I disagree. I think the more horrific an action is, the more effort you should put into creating a rock solid, logical argument against it. Just because child porn is revolting doesn't mean that the rules of logic fall by the wayside.

[Queeb Salaron]

Eh, the First Amendament does exist for a reason...And the line is set properly where it is or in he correct area. Why stop at Nazis? Why not Fundies? Why not people or political parties you hate? The same goes for an opposite person hating you. It's merely your opinion, not law. Nazis may be fucked up but nothing should or can be done unless they get violent.

::Sighs ruefully:: Yeah, I know. But sometimes I wish I could go vigilante on the Klansmen and save the world.

[InnerBrat]

Just to play devils advocate, what about computer generated kiddie porn? I.e. NO live participants, just a sick and lonely guy on a computer making exceptionally high quality pictures, bit by bit if needed?

Is this still no victim, no crime?

Ahh, counterpoint. This computer generated kiddie porn gets the interest of the casual pervert. The casual pervert then becomes curious to see what the real thing is like. This leads to him (or her) to download kiddie porn off KaZaa, which does have real participants, and real victims. As a result, that form of child pornography could encourage the viewing of child pornography which does victimize children.

Yes, but what about rape porn, in which the woman is acting?

[Queeb Salaron]

Ahh, counterpoint. This computer generated kiddie porn gets the interest of the casual pervert. The casual pervert then becomes curious to see what the real thing is like. This leads to him (or her) to download kiddie porn off KaZaa, which does have real participants, and real victims. As a result, that form of child pornography could encourage the viewing of child pornography which does victimize children.

Slippery slope. Generally speaking, pedophiles know about their pedophilia before their viewing of pornography. Which means that generally speaking, they go straight to the real stuff. The same is true for serial rapists / murderers and their collections of snuff porn. It is the mind that seeks the porn, not the porn that creates the mind.

Yes, but what about rape porn, in which the woman is acting?

From a legal standpoint, that's fine. It's also fine to have 18-year old girls who look much younger than 18 be involved in porn. The same is true for hentai; though the authors must claim that all characters are of 18 years or older, their depictions of these 18-year olds often takes between 2 and 5 years off their observable age.

From a moral standpoint, anyone who wants to look at children in that way is perverted and should be shot.

From a historical standpoint, the younger the prostitute, the more money they make. Men would (and still do) pay good money to "break" a young girl. Wealthy lords married 14-year olds so that they could have lots of little male heirs. It wasn't called pedophilia then, it was called "good planning."

Now, of course, we know better. Thank God.

[Morat]

From a moral standpoint, anyone who wants to look at children in that way is perverted and should be shot.

So, you feel that people should be executed for having certain feelings, even though they have no way of controlling those feelings?

[Queeb Salaron]

So, you feel that people should be executed for having certain feelings, even though they have no way of controlling those feelings?

::Sighs:: No. I was being a bit hasty, I admit. Bad run-in with child porn in my youth. And to admit that I thought people should be shot for having certain feelings which they can't control would be to condemn things like homosexuality. Which I obviously wouldn't do.