Question for the Christians on the board (re: Heaven)

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-04-23 03:50pm

Okay, let's suppose that Christianity is, in fact, correct. I've often thought about the concept of Heaven, Hell and eternal bliss from a hyopthetical standpoint, and I've always come back to one question.

Suppose that you die and go to Heaven, but someone you love goes to Hell. Can you be in perfect bliss knowing that he or she is suffering for all eternity?

I asked my senior-year theology teacher this, and he simply said that you wouldn't care because the person is in Hell because he or she deserved it. I found that to be a rather cold response, but there it is. I'm curious as to other Christians' views on this.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-23 04:31pm

That is a fucking cold response. I swear the moment some of these so called believers gets introduced to a thorny subject they revert to a sterotype, like automated defenses "Danger Danger I may be forced to defend and and question my faith must respond with tactic 47A BLAME THE SIN NOT THE SINNER"

Assholes.

Anyway on to your question, I think there are three possibilties and this is coming from someone who doesn't truly beleive in a christian afterlife -

1) You don't know the person you love is in Hell. You are given that person as a completely believable illusion a la holodeck or Vanilla Sky (If you've seen the movie) so you are not aware the person is in Hell, you are in eternal bliss afterall and part of that bliss is reuniting you with a loved one and hey if God can create the universe in six days then he can certainly create a believable duplicate of a person.

2) You are given the choice of joining the person in hell or staying in heaven.

3) You wouldn't care because you have seen the face of God and as such you know that the loved one in Hell desereves to be in hell for disobeying God. Supposedly, God is perfect love and all other loves are just pale reflections, so when in the presence of such love everything else pales.

Still a very thorny question and precisely the kind of questions that make the whole heaven and hell thing just a bit too trite for the complexity of human life. No one is the paragon of virtue that it seems would be needed to get into heaven, and we won't even get into the debate on what sort of loving deity creates a hell in the first place, stacks the deck by making us sinful base creaturesin teh first place and makes the world a kind of place that rewards sin and punishes or is indifferent to virtue. Not a very nice god if you ask me.

Then again we're only getting man's side of the story. God has yet to have spoken on the matter.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-04-23 04:40pm

Stravo wrote:1) You don't know the person you love is in Hell. You are given that person as a completely believable illusion a la holodeck or Vanilla Sky (If you've seen the movie) so you are not aware the person is in Hell, you are in eternal bliss afterall and part of that bliss is reuniting you with a loved one and hey if God can create the universe in six days then he can certainly create a believable duplicate of a person.

That would be dishonest of him. Perfect people aren't generally considered to be duplicitous.

2) You are given the choice of joining the person in hell or staying in heaven.

Not much of a choice, is it?

3) You wouldn't care because you have seen the face of God and as such you know that the loved one in Hell desereves to be in hell for disobeying God. Supposedly, God is perfect love and all other loves are just pale reflections, so when in the presence of such love everything else pales.

What if you're a Christian who believes that the love of your family and friends is God showing his love for you through other people in your life?

Still a very thorny question and precisely the kind of questions that make the whole heaven and hell thing just a bit too trite for the complexity of human life. No one is the paragon of virtue that it seems would be needed to get into heaven, and we won't even get into the debate on what sort of loving deity creates a hell in the first place, stacks the deck by making us sinful base creaturesin teh first place and makes the world a kind of place that rewards sin and punishes or is indifferent to virtue. Not a very nice god if you ask me.

Then again we're only getting man's side of the story. God has yet to have spoken on the matter.

If Heaven is prefect happiness, then I don't see the problem with letting bad people into Heaven. It's not like anyone's going to care. They're all in perfect happiness, after all.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-04-23 04:45pm

I've talked to my dad about it, seeing as how he's a liberal christian and ignores most of the bad stuff from the bible

He claims when you go to heaven you lose your memories of loved ones and friends, so I guess in that case it wouldn't bother anyone if someone went to hell because that no one would remember that said person

I find that little tidbit highly disturbing

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-04-23 05:34pm

A couple of Christian theologians have defined Heaven as being in the presence of God and enjoying it, and Hell as just the opposite. Under that definition, everyone essentially goes to the same place, but their attitudes toward that place are very different. Therefore, you WOULD be with your loved one for all eternity, and that would make you happy.

Of course, that still leaves the fact that the person you love is very much unhappy in the place that he or she is. Knowing this, I suppose the question still remains, can you ever be fully happy? ::Shrugs:: Idunno.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-04-23 05:35pm

Durandal wrote:If Heaven is prefect happiness, then I don't see the problem with letting bad people into Heaven. It's not like anyone's going to care. They're all in perfect happiness, after all.

[Dogbert]...and then I can take over Heaven with a butter knife!!

[/Dogbert]

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-04-23 05:36pm

Hamel wrote:He claims when you go to heaven you lose your memories of loved ones and friends, so I guess in that case it wouldn't bother anyone if someone went to hell because that no one would remember that said person

So, when you get to the meat of it, how does that differ from oblivion?