You call that a WarCraft III mod title? *Smack*

[Utsanomiko]

Ok, before I get into this mod being worked on over at GameProc, I'd like to have people answer the poll, just to get some idea of first impressions into numbers. Feel free to post your opinion after you've fully read this.








Are we all done? That's swell.

Anyway, if you want to go to Gameproc.com and check their News and Conversion Discussion forums, you can get the full story on this modification of WarCraft III being worked on (at least by DreadNaught, I don't know of anyone else that's permanent).

When I joined over a month ago, this mod was in the works, at about the exact same point it is now, actually. It was simply titled "Middle Earth", and a lot of basic work and research was being done concerning medieval-style weapons for use by Elves, Dwarves, Men, and Orcs. A lot of people started mentioning seemingly Middle Earth-related subjects, like the Rohirrim, Dunedain, The Lothlorien Elves, and other points about Tolkien-esque designs. Well, the only response for a while was simply to point out the FAQ's last sentence of "this is not lotr to wc3", and it left a few people feeling confused.

Finally, DreadNaught posted and flat-out stated that it has nothing at all to do with Tolkien's Middle Earth, and was simply using the name because he thinks it's a generic term for a lot of medieval fantasy settings. I and a few other people (which accounted for probably about 1/2 the posts in ME's forum) stated that people would simply go on thinking it's a Lord of the Rings mod of some sorts, and most people would loose interest once they've realized they've been 'duped'. So finally a thread was started to think up a new name (since he argued his only other option was to call it "Middle Ages"), but apparently not a lot could be thought up, especially when new info and posts all but died on that mod for several weeks.

Then suddenly, IskatuMesk posted in the News thread about The Frozen Throne WC3 expansion, but starting off with the message that Middle Earth was being renamed simply Middle Earth: The Lost Soul. Evidently, either someone was convinced a subtitle would neutralize everyone's first impressions, or simply doesn't give a shit about who they attract and mistake to their project (hell, that's what about 2/3rds of people did at first, and probably why hardly anything's been even designed to separate it from Just Another Sword and Sorcery setting).

I'm personally convinced DreadNaught has some kind of attachment or agenda with the name; seemingly bent on 'proving' that people don't think of Tolkien when they hear 'Middle Earth', and see it as the generic term he says he does. I still don't know why he wants a generic title for a mod, if that were even the case. IskatuMesk is taking a 'I don't care' stance on this, but I think he's mostly given up on finding a 'better' name. I just want them to find a name that works, so they don't make asses of themselves when trying to advertise or even find staff. A name at the very least shouldn't confuse people or give false impressions.

So, what's your guys' take? Is Middle Earth an inappropriate name for a non-LotR medieval fantasy mod, or are some of us just being nit-picky and unconfident?

[Stormbringer]

So, what's your guys' take? Is Middle Earth an inappropriate name for a non-LotR medieval fantasy mod, or are some of us just being nit-picky and unconfident?

No, you're not. Middle Earth means Tolkien end of story.

[weemadando]

Goddamn, another person who thinks that they dictate literary doctrine.

Can I please hurt them?

[Beowulf]

ME is LotR.

[Utsanomiko]

Have you read DreadNaught's posts on Gameproc.com? He is totally convinced the title works for his original fantasy setting (it'd help if he actually had something substantial designed to distinguish itself as something original, though). He's barely adressed how people will react to such a title, and simply sticks to how there are no other good titles on the table. I've tried to argue it and have failed.

EDIT: And while you're there, be sure to check out my Alien vs Predator: Warcraft total converison. *pimp pimp*

And yes, it does in fact concern Aliens and Predator, as seen in the films of the same titles.

[Dalton]

Middle Earth does not necessarily belong only to LOTR. It appeared in Norse mythology as Midgard, the place between Heaven and Hell where humanity lived, and the Mediterranean Sea translates literally to Middle-Earth Sea.

[Stormbringer]

Middle Earth does not necessarily belong only to LOTR. It appeared in Norse mythology as Midgard, the place between Heaven and Hell where humanity lived, and the Mediterranean Sea translates literally to Middle-Earth Sea.

True. But unless it's applying to one of those it's going to be assumed t be Tolkien's Middle Earth.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Why is it that Wargiant and Lavarinth give stupid people admin access to gameproc?

[Utsanomiko]

Why is it that Wargiant and Lavarinth give stupid people admin access to gameproc?

Hell, I don't even have mod access to my own project's forum. You'd think if they were so concerned with one of four of their site's main mods, they'd actually ask for progress, or at least poke the forum.

My main problem with using Middle Earth for a mod's name is what it's going to make other people think. I am serioussly going to have a hard time not pointing and laughing when the mod ever gets finished and 7/8 of all people downloading it exclaim "this isn't lotr, so why do you call it middle earth?" I don't think he gets the point of titles, and it's not like the other suggestions were that bad or sounded somehow less bland than his idea.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Middle Earth does not necessarily belong only to LOTR. It appeared in Norse mythology as Midgard, the place between Heaven and Hell where humanity lived, and the Mediterranean Sea translates literally to Middle-Earth Sea.

Duh, Dalton, of course it does...

The fact is that most fantasy writers and creators haven't gone anywhere near the name Middle-earth because 90% of everyone has automatically associated it with Tolkien for the past 50 years.

I remember when Utsanomiko first told me about this mod, and I think they're being stupid and arrogant in their position.

[DPDarkPrimus]

No one ever refers to the term "Middle-Earth" when talking about Norse mythology. The term is "Midgard".

[Dalton]

Oh, I wasn't saying that naming the mod Middle-Earth was the smart thing to do. Just mentioning that it's not only Tolkien.

That being said, this dude missed a bet.

[Dalton]

Duh, Dalton, of course it does...

Don't duh me, or I'll duh YOU!

muhaha

[Utsanomiko]

Well, judging by the new post in the News forum, they are dead-set on Middle-Earth.

I'm not buynig the "if you can suggest something better, we'll consider it", because not only has DreadNaught already said he wants to find a way of informing people it's not Middle Earth-related without changing the name (try calling it "Middle Earth: NOT Lord of The Rings"? ), but they've ignored claims that it doesn't even count as a title in the first place. It's not a title when it's just a reference to another series. I would serriously try and come up with a fitting title, but it's not like there's even a story or setting information posted for me to make reference to.

God, I can't believe DreadNaught is willing to shoot his own mod in the balls just to apparently make some kind of point.