Nest of Aku'Ultan Vs. Star Wars

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-09-03 03:41am

Scenario:
The Nest of Aku'ultan is located deep in the Unknown Regions, and the entire history of the Old Republic in the Star Wars universe has come to pass in the time since the last Great Visit. Due to the increased size of the Star Wars galaxy relative to our own, the Master Computer of the Aku'Ultan has eased the restrictions on hyperdrive speeds, and the ships are capable of about 1000c, up to about 2000c for command ships. Coruscant was the one surviving human world from the last Great Visit, but the knowledge of the Acchultani was lost, and technology developed differently, into the Star Wars we know and love.
In Star Wars history, Vader shot down Luke, the Millenium Falcon was destroyed by surface fire, and Yavin was destroyed with zero survivors. The Emperor has spent 2 years since then consolidating his control, and wiping out resistance. This Star Wars is the Bad-Ass universe of Lucas's vision, where the Imperator class is the smallest frontline military warship.
The Nest launches its Great Visit, while keeping a home defense and mothball fleet about 3 times the expiditions force strength. The Great Visit is composed of:
2.4 million frontline warships, 40 km long with hundreds of missile launchers capable of each launching 10 gigaton warheads accurately up to 4 light minutes away through hyperspace, and taking at least half a dozen salvos from another ship of its class before shield failure.
300,000 scout ships, 20 km long with a fifth the firepower and shielding of a frontline warship. Divided into groups of 2,000 that scour space for indications of other life, then move to eliminate.
300,000 bastard ships, starting at 50 km long, ramping up to the command ship at 250 km(length pulled out of my ass). Also the only ships to mount an energy armament that is a credible threat to Star Wars capital ships, at a couple of gigatons a pop.
All ships are capable of tactical ftl practically at will to within 20 light minutes of a star the size of Sol, barring interference from an Interdictor.
Total Strategic Surprise.
No bullshit immunity to the Force, but the large number of clones concentrated together makes it difficult to influence their minds.

The Empire has:
The biggest industrial base in the galaxy.
Approximately 8 million Imperators to start with, with correspondingly fewer ships of larger sizes.
About 70 million smaller armed ships for auxiliary duties.
The Death Star 1, 160 km in diameter, with a closable door over the exhaust port.
Plans on the shelf and prototypes for the Sun Crusher and World Devastators.
The first Eclipse and Sovereigns conducting systems tests in Coruscant orbit.
The expanding debris fields of Alderaan, Yavin, Mon Calamari, Bothawui, and Sullust still causing navigational hazards, despite years of dedicated effort by the Imperial Hyperspace Transit Authority.
All of the surviving members of what would have been the Jedi Academy being trained as Sith warriors.
Grand Admiral Thrawn.
ICS stats for weapons and power in effect.

Who will win? How much damage will the Empire suffer before it can beat back the onslaught? Will Grand Moff Tarkin still have Ackbar's skull as a mug, from which he sips Whyrren's Reserve? Will the master computer of the Nest even try to negotiate if pushed back? Will the Emperor care if they try? Do you think it is more likely that the Empire drove the Nest of Aku'Ultan out of their galaxy and to the Milky Way in the first place?

Technology note: the hull conforming shields of Star Wars signifigantly reduce the normally overwhelming advantage provided by hyper missiles, and while not fully effective, do prevent most of the blast from reaching the hull, as long as the shields last.
Hyper missiles can fire while under a gravity well generators influence; if they can fire at the center of a field where Achuultani ships hyper drives were unusable, then they have to use a different principle anyway.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-09-03 03:46am

personal note; If I don't respond for a while, it doesn't mean I am ignoring anyone or concede an argument. I work at Staples, and it is Back To School time, so I am only getting online occasionally. Also, from Friday morning until Sunday evening I will be in bumfuck Virginia(officially Fort A.P. Hill) with my Reserve unit, and will have no computer access at all.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-09-04 11:24am

No posts? WAAAAAAHHHH!!!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-04 11:40am

Ok fine fine one thing

40 km long with hundreds of missile launchers capable of each launching 10 gigaton warheads accurately up to 4 light minutes away through hyperspace, and taking at least half a dozen salvos from another ship of its class before shield failure.

Latest Avarage Imperial Class MK II SD Shield strength on one side is roughly 14 Yotta-tons based on Scalling of SW Weaponry from Acclimator to ISD(HTL is around 2-15Teratons and thats scalling, Cannon is the fact seven full broad sides(Issards Revenge) are enough to Collapse the shielding on one side which places it anywhere from (30 Guns 200 Giga-tons each 25 Guns 10 Giga-tons each(6.250 Tera-tons) times seven 43.75 Teratons to take down one Shield MINIUM based on Acclimator numbers)
(High End is Tera-tons meaning lets say 5 Tera-ton HTL, 350 Giga-ton Mediums or 158,750 times seven = 1,111,250 or 1.111250 Yotta-tons on scalling)

So by hundred lets say 200 Launchers meaning 200x10 equals 2,000 giga-tons or two Tera-tons meaing it would need 21.785 full missle salvos or 4357 Missle hits on the LOW end to take down the ISD MK II shields

OR

High end 1,111,250/ 2 Tera-tons=555.625 full salvos or 111,125 Missle Hits at the High End to take down one ISD MK II shields

There some food for thought

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-09-04 11:44am

Mr Bean wrote:Ok fine fine one thing
Latest Avarage Imperial Class MK II SD Shield strength on one side is roughly 14 Yotta-tons based on Scalling of SW Weaponry from Acclimator to ISD(HTL is around 2-15Teratons and thats scalling, Cannon is the fact seven full broad sides(Issards Revenge) are enough to Collapse the shielding on one side which places it anywhere from (30 Guns 200 Giga-tons each 25 Guns 10 Giga-tons each(6.250 Tera-tons) times seven 43.75 Teratons to take down one Shield MINIUM based on Acclimator numbers)
(High End is Tera-tons meaning lets say 5 Tera-ton HTL, 350 Giga-ton Mediums or 158,750 times seven = 1,111,250 or 1.111250 Yotta-tons on scalling)

So by hundred lets say 200 Launchers meaning 200x10 equals 2,000 giga-tons or two Tera-tons meaing it would need 21.785 full missle salvos or 4357 Missle hits on the LOW end to take down the ISD MK II shields

OR

High end 1,111,250/ 2 Tera-tons=555.625 full salvos or 111,125 Missle Hits at the High End to take down one ISD MK II shields
There some food for thought

Unfortunately many achuultani missiles strike from hyperspace and bypass the shilds of the star destroyer. What do you think are the effects of a 10 gigaton warhead exploding inside an ISD ?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-04 12:02pm

Unfortunately many achuultani missiles strike from hyperspace and bypass the shilds of the star destroyer. What do you think are the effects of a 10 gigaton warhead exploding inside an ISD ?

Except for the fact its been proven already SW shielding extends into various other areas inculding but not limited to Subspace and the Quantum level

Besides SW Hyperspace objects do not interact with each other except to pull somthing out of hyperspace

So Sending missles VIA Hyperspace just means they pass harmless through the targets much like how there are no Subspace Weapons in ST

Also if they can pass the shields(Which are either Spherical or Hull Hugging) that just means they move with Interducters which can yank things out earily

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-09-04 12:06pm

Mr Bean wrote:Except for the fact its been proven already SW shielding extends into various other areas inculding but not limited to Subspace and the Quantum level

Besides SW Hyperspace objects do not interact with each other except to pull somthing out of hyperspace

So Sending missles VIA Hyperspace just means they pass harmless through the targets much like how there are no Subspace Weapons in ST

Also if they can pass the shields(Which are either Spherical or Hull Hugging) that just means they move with Interducters which can yank things out earily

Achuultani ( and 4th/5th Imperium ) hyper missiles are impervious to planetary masses. So an Interdictor may not be strong enough to block them.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-04 01:52pm

Ref for that HRougge?

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-09-04 02:08pm

Mr Bean wrote:Ref for that HRougge?

hypermissiles were used in the second book by the Achuultani while inside the "Lacoon"-net...

Operation Lacoon were a number of mine layers flying at at FTL speed around the fleet and producing a STELLAR sized gravity well.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-04 02:25pm

Operation Lacoon were a number of mine layers flying at at FTL speed around the fleet and producing a STELLAR sized gravity well.

Intresting but agian problamatic, The second question of course since I have never even heard anything of Achuultani up till today is where is it that they ignore shielding?

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-09-04 02:31pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Operation Lacoon were a number of mine layers flying at at FTL speed around the fleet and producing a STELLAR sized gravity well.
Intresting but agian problamatic, The second question of course since I have never even heard anything of Achuultani up till today is where is it that they ignore shielding?

Its a three book story of David Weber:
Muniteer Moon, Armageddon Inheritance and Heirs of Empire.

The Achuultani ( and their opponents, the 4th/5th Imperium ) have shields that can block most ( but not all ) hyperspace bands so they have a defense against it. In addition to this hyperspace missiles cannot navigate, they just fly along a vector with 3000 - 4000 c and drop into real space after a preprogrammed time.

The typical Achuultani combat ship has a length of ~40km and can fire huge volleys of these missiles.

The 4th/5th Imperium is much worse. ( The typical 4th Imperium ship would call the Death Star "little brother" )

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-04 02:36pm

The Achuultani ( and their opponents, the 4th/5th Imperium ) have shields that can block most ( but not all ) hyperspace bands so they have a defense against it. In addition to this hyperspace missiles cannot navigate, they just fly along a vector with 3000 - 4000 c and drop into real space after a preprogrammed time.

Ok so they are Highly Inaccurate and considering what happens when an object De-hypes in another(Hint Reversion to real-space they slow down) they would not ignore shielding and would then safley(Relativly speaking) simply hit the shields and go-kaboom

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-09-04 02:42pm

Mr Bean wrote:
The Achuultani ( and their opponents, the 4th/5th Imperium ) have shields that can block most ( but not all ) hyperspace bands so they have a defense against it. In addition to this hyperspace missiles cannot navigate, they just fly along a vector with 3000 - 4000 c and drop into real space after a preprogrammed time.
Ok so they are Highly Inaccurate and considering what happens when an object De-hypes in another(Hint Reversion to real-space they slow down) they would not ignore shielding and would then safley(Relativly speaking) simply hit the shields and go-kaboom

Hyper missiles have flight times of only a few seconds. They have hit objects with inertialess drives and topspeed of .7 c... They don't slow down when coming into real space, they just pop into existance.

A Star Destroyer could only pray that they don't hit him... and because the range of an Achuultani hypermissile is ~ 10 -12 lightmintes the Star Destroyer could not even fight back.

If they come out of hyper late or early you were lucky and they just detonate against your shield. But with the hundreds or tousands of missiles being fired against a ship you might get unlucky...

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-04 07:30pm

The Achuultani are from the Dahak series by David Weber. The books are Mutineers Moon, The Armageddon Inheritance, and Heirs of Empire. Mutineers Moon can be read for free here.

Dahakverse hyperspace is NOT the same as SW hyperspace.
Dahakverse hyperspace is NOT the same as SW hyperspace.
Dahakverse hyperspace is NOT the same as SW hyperspace.
SW hyperspace looks white and cloudy. Dahakverse hyperspace is described as a grey nothingness. Looking into it for too long can cause nausea, vertigo and eventually madness. Dahakverse hyperspace is also divided into different 'bands'. Dahakverse hyperspace does not exist in the SW universe, therefore Imperial shields cannot possibly block it. Any Imperial ship which has a missile emerge from hyper inside it is dead. Dahakverse hyperdrives are also not the same as SW hyperdrives. A mass emerging from hyper doesn't have to slow down; it simply appears.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-04 07:36pm

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-09-04 07:49pm

Only problem I can really see the Aku'Ultan having is their bloody slow Hyperdrive speed.

Mr Bean,In responce to your post about how many missiles the Aku'Ultan would have to use, The sublight missiles of the Aku'Ultan are bloody fast, somewhere around .7 to .8c, meaning it's not gonna be often that they miss, though I suppose not to powerful they have more then enough to deal with any Star Destroyer, in Armageddon Inheritance they used them as anti-fighter missiles, The Aku'Ultan are not tactical idiots (not much of idiots anyway) and wouldn't use the missiles like that if they didn't have enough to deal with the other capships they were going to have to destroy. Aku'Ultan have more then enough missiles to make up for the lack of power.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-04 07:52pm

Hath space combat sunk this far to be reduced to WWII Ship tatics?

How accurate are they? Given they are blind fired can not be corrected(You know what Interaless drives mean? No engine, thats an old joke) after being fired and then are time fused would not a simple S's curve track as the ships travel through space be enough to FUBAR the missles?

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-09-04 08:09pm

Mr Bean wrote:Hath space combat sunk this far to be reduced to WWII Ship tatics?

How accurate are they? Given they are blind fired can not be corrected(You know what Interaless drives mean? No engine, thats an old joke) after being fired and then are time fused would not a simple S's curve track as the ships travel through space be enough to FUBAR the missles?

Sublight missiles are actively homing on their target, they are not timefused like the hyper missiles. Imagine a missile which fly evasion patterns and can accelerate from zero speed to .7 c within maybe 10 seconds...

They can be used against targets with heavy jamming equipment, the achuultani even used them against targets with cloaks...

Standard warhead size seems to be a antimatter warhead with 10 gigaton output...

Sublight missiles will be dangerous, but hyper missiles will be the real killer... and the Empire is lucky that they are dealing with the achuultani and not the 4th Empire...

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-09-04 08:34pm

HRogge wrote:and the Empire is lucky that they are dealing with the achuultani and not the 4th Empire...

*Shiver* That would be sick and twisted. The mere mention of such brings thoughts of total and complete Empire fleet and planet destruction, and even if the 4th Empire decided to keep a planet intact, their ground forces would be MORE then enough to take out any Imperial hold out.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-09-04 09:31pm

Captain_Cyran wrote:Only problem I can really see the Aku'Ultan having is their bloody slow Hyperdrive speed.

Mr Bean,In responce to your post about how many missiles the Aku'Ultan would have to use, The sublight missiles of the Aku'Ultan are bloody fast, somewhere around .7 to .8c, meaning it's not gonna be often that they miss, though I suppose not to powerful they have more then enough to deal with any Star Destroyer, in Armageddon Inheritance they used them as anti-fighter missiles, The Aku'Ultan are not tactical idiots (not much of idiots anyway) and wouldn't use the missiles like that if they didn't have enough to deal with the other capships they were going to have to destroy. Aku'Ultan have more then enough missiles to make up for the lack of power.

There not anti-fighter missles. There used becuase they do have a few advantages HM's lack. Though I can see were you get the mistake from, sub-light battlesships are fighter to a planetiod.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-04 09:37pm

Darth_Shinji wrote: There not anti-fighter missles. There used becuase they do have a few advantages HM's lack. Though I can see were you get the mistake from, sub-light battlesships are fighter to a planetiod.

Actually, I'd say the 'mistake', as you put it, comes from the time Brashieel used a sublight antiship missile to take out a swarm of Terran fighters.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-09-04 09:50pm

Sublight missiles of course are homing.. and are faster and more manueverable than ships so of course avoiding them's pretty difficult (decoying or shooting them down being the only real way).

Hypermissiles by all indications arrive pretty much instantly across their range.

Of course the 10 Gigaton AM warhead thing is debatable since we see them fired only by lower echelon warships.. and everything else from speed to size to energy weapons firepower goes up the higher up the ranks you go.

Achuultani energy weapons are supposed to pretty much suck compared to even the 4th Imperium's, their absolute best being a crude gravitonic disruptor, while most are just simple lasers and the like.

Oh yeah and the Achuultani have a fondness for throwing large kinetic weapons at planets.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-09-04 10:11pm

XaLEv wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote: There not anti-fighter missles. There used becuase they do have a few advantages HM's lack. Though I can see were you get the mistake from, sub-light battlesships are fighter to a planetiod.
Actually, I'd say the 'mistake', as you put it, comes from the time Brashieel used a sublight antiship missile to take out a swarm of Terran fighters.

Well, thier seem to not be made specifically to handle fighters at least. They throw them at everthing becuase thier can homein and actunni ships appear to have more of them than hm.

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-09-05 05:59am

SylasGaunt wrote:Oh yeah and the Achuultani have a fondness for throwing large kinetic weapons at planets.

Maybe we should mention that they considered Iapetus ( a moon of Saturn ) a large kinetic weapon. Not the largest one they ever used but a large one.

A mere scout force ( ~ 2000 ships, each 20 km long ) build engines and shields onto the moon and tried to crash it into Earth.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-09-05 04:27pm

HRogge wrote:
SylasGaunt wrote:Oh yeah and the Achuultani have a fondness for throwing large kinetic weapons at planets.
Maybe we should mention that they considered Iapetus ( a moon of Saturn ) a large kinetic weapon. Not the largest one they ever used but a large one.

A mere scout force ( ~ 2000 ships, each 20 km long ) build engines and shields onto the moon and tried to crash it into Earth.

The main problem I can see the Achuultani running into is the planetary shields (Hey, when a planetary shield can take more then half of a Death Star blast before frying out that can be called pretty damn good.) After awhile though the Achuultani would learn...shoot projectors, shield go down, THEN throw moon. Something I am somewhat amazed to see, though not really, is the use of the Death Star against the Achuultani. To which the Achuultani take down with the first or second salvo of hypermissiles .

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Nest of Aku'Ultan Vs. Star Wars

Who would win?

Nest of Aku'Ultan Vs. Star Wars