Stormtroopers vs THESE Federation troops

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

You could correspond firepower when you increase firepower from the Rifles and compare that with the grenade launchers. Another possibility is to compare the Type-2 phaser vaporizing Borg drones to the grenade damage done in the game.

Wrong! We see pistols and rifles vaping people IN THE GAME. We see the Grenade Launcher doing less damage IN THE GAME. Therefore, the Grenade Launcher is weak.

[Alyeska]

You could correspond firepower when you increase firepower from the Rifles and compare that with the grenade launchers. Another possibility is to compare the Type-2 phaser vaporizing Borg drones to the grenade damage done in the game.

Wrong! We see pistols and rifles vaping people IN THE GAME. We see the Grenade Launcher doing less damage IN THE GAME. Therefore, the Grenade Launcher is weak.

Question. Do we see it used against the abnormaly powerful enemies in the game? A better way to gauge the power is compare it to a deactivated Borg Drone. They are about as close to a standard human as you are going to get. Anything that can kill a drone easily like that ought to seriously hurt or kill an unarmored individual.

[Crazedwraith]

for the record the hazard suit dosen't have sheilds. READ the MANUAL!!!!!

[qoute] The Hazard suit is armoured to protect a team member and is equiped with a medical system. Both are powered by a small belt mounted energy pack. If you take damage, the suit's ablative armour will absorb the brunt of most attacks. [/qoute]

so sheilds!! just armour. Also iam sick of ppl saying that stormies wud use an ion gun. you think they carry all their specillized guns aeound with them all the time? You said they were 4 use on droids, why wud they use them on humans? Also where do they meet is this supposed to be stormies boarding voyager and the Harzard team fighting them or wot?

[seanrobertson]

Yeah, we saw how powerful they were in Nemesis. They broke like a broomstick when force is applied to them.

In fairness, here, that's changing the subject: firepower, and the fact that a weapon is made of balsa...err, "metals," are two unrelated things

We know phaser rifles can be fairly powerful--1.05 MW in "The Mind's Eye." That's presumably at maximum, which is enough to make a humanoid disappear ("The Vengeance Factor").

That should penetrate the standard Stormtrooper's armor, since its equivalent effects are greater than weapons which we have observed killing Troopers; e.g., Solo's blaster, which "only" fried Greedo.

One could potentially argue that such an analogy is weak, given a phaser's material dependence vs. the raw firepower of Solo's blaster, but a megawatt slamming into them couldn't be healthy.

Moreover, it's pertinent to note that Solo's pistol, which we saw him fire single-handed numerous times, didn't have much in the way of hard kick--definitely less than a Desert Eagle or Colt .45--which would indicate the thing's firepower is, in fact, not wildly disproportionate with the phaser's so-called "raw output."

What did they do in those movies that phasers haven't done?

Nothing. They shot some rocks in "Insurrection," as I recall.

Also in fairness, most of the times we see phasers barely scorching walls or failing to blow up packing crates (e.g., "What You Leave Behind), they're not set anywhere near maximum; they don't, after all, "vaporize" their human targets when they finally score clean hits, such as when Damar was struck on Cardassia.

As such, if anyone was to take that as an indication of their maximum firepower/lack thereof, that might be a tad hasty...it does represent the standard setting used in combat, though, probably a balance between lethality and preserving battery power.

As far as the Elite Force goes, they might have a chance against well-armed Stormtroopers in equal nos., but I think it could easily go either way. And it's probably worth noting that some on the Elite Force were total fuck-ups, like Crewman Chell...

[Lord Poe]

Question. Do we see it used against the abnormaly powerful enemies in the game? A better way to gauge the power is compare it to a deactivated Borg Drone. They are about as close to a standard human as you are going to get. Anything that can kill a drone easily like that ought to seriously hurt or kill an unarmored individual.

There's no phaser weapon in "Elite Force" that vaporizes anything. Besides, this is pointless. Every try to shoot Neelix at point blank range with the photon gun? Does he die? Nope. Not unless you shoot him SEVERAL times, and even then he doesn't vape.

The viewports can't be blown out, the consoles and biobeds in Sickbay can't be destroyed, a dropped tricorder on the floor can't be destroyed, etc.

[seanrobertson]

Question. Do we see it used against the abnormaly powerful enemies in the game? A better way to gauge the power is compare it to a deactivated Borg Drone. They are about as close to a standard human as you are going to get. Anything that can kill a drone easily like that ought to seriously hurt or kill an unarmored individual.

There's no phaser weapon in "Elite Force" that vaporizes anything. Besides, this is pointless. Every try to shoot Neelix at point blank range with the photon gun? Does he die? Nope. Not unless you shoot him SEVERAL times, and even then he doesn't vape.

LOL...Seven wasn't kidding when she said Talaxians had "dense musculature"

I never did try to blast the bastard with the photon cannon. I do think I shot Janeway a time or two.

[Keevan_Colton]

I preffered to set the self destruct and save us all from Voyager....

But anyway...someone asked....the type 2 hand phaser in elite force could be used in the NDF vape style with the alternate fire....it actually made every other weapon pretty useless if you were good at dodging....

[IRG CommandoJoe]

That should penetrate the standard Stormtrooper's armor, since its equivalent effects are greater than weapons which we have observed killing Troopers; e.g., Solo's blaster, which "only" fried Greedo.

Solo's blaster could have been put on a lower power level. After that scene, he killed several Stormtroopers and blew out large chunks of walls in docking bay 94.

[Joe Momma]

the type 2 hand phaser in elite force could be used in the NDF vape style with the alternate fire....it actually made every other weapon pretty useless if you were good at dodging....

Ditto with alt-fire on the phaser rifle, IIRC. I delighted in occasionally (okay, frequently) going apeshit and vaping the entire command crew and as many redshirts as I could before security finally brought the hammer down.

-- Joe Momma

[Darth Wong]

Also in fairness, most of the times we see phasers barely scorching walls or failing to blow up packing crates (e.g., "What You Leave Behind), they're not set anywhere near maximum; they don't, after all, "vaporize" their human targets when they finally score clean hits, such as when Damar was struck on Cardassia.

This leads to the obvious question, then: when your enemy would be easily killed by a full-power shot in his general vicinity if the high power figures are to be believed, why not use one? Why not use high-power shots to blow away the enemy's cover instead of popping up, shooting, and ducking back down?

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I thought they were good at frying people and rocks because of their NDF. And I guess this NDF isn't good at damaging metal, which is why we always see it hit the wall with some sparks, but no real damage. In theory, since Imperial stormtrooper armor is made of "plasteel", which sounds like a mix of a metal and a plastic, it would be highly resistant to phasers.

[Alyeska]

I thought they were good at frying people and rocks because of their NDF. And I guess this NDF isn't good at damaging metal, which is why we always see it hit the wall with some sparks, but no real damage. In theory, since Imperial stormtrooper armor is made of "plasteel", which sounds like a mix of a metal and a plastic, it would be highly resistant to phasers.

In Nemesis a single shot from a Type-3c rifle was sufficent to blow a massive hole in a large metal door on the Scimitar cridge.

[Darth Servo]

In Nemesis a single shot from a Type-3c rifle was sufficent to blow a massive hole in a large metal door on the Scimitar cridge.

Must have been set to super-duper high since thats the only time thats happened.

[Shogoki]

If this is the only time that happens, then the door was most likely of crappy quality, this is a ship made by slaves after all, and they must have economized on something.

[Howedar]

What, does slave-worked metal have vastly inferior durability and heat absorbtion or something?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

They did it with slave labor, so the whole project may be on an economy mode. If that's so, to save money / credits / resources, they might have chosen some cheap material to sub in for the proper one in any semi-feasible region

[Alyeska]

In Insurrection two Type-3b rifles and one Type-2 hand phaser were capable of blasting a considerable distance through rock to create an opening into another cavern in the cave.

[Sea Skimmer]

In Insurrection two Type-3b rifles and one Type-2 hand phaser were capable of blasting a considerable distance through rock to create an opening into another cavern in the cave.

So what, phaser's have demonstrated they are highly material dependent just about every time they are fired.

[Alyeska]

In Insurrection two Type-3b rifles and one Type-2 hand phaser were capable of blasting a considerable distance through rock to create an opening into another cavern in the cave.

So what, phaser's have demonstrated they are highly material dependent just about every time they are fired.

Except they have been used sucesfuly against metal and rock type targets in the past.

[Kamakazie Sith]

In Insurrection two Type-3b rifles and one Type-2 hand phaser were capable of blasting a considerable distance through rock to create an opening into another cavern in the cave.

So what, phaser's have demonstrated they are highly material dependent just about every time they are fired.

Yes, but the only material that I can remember them being ineffective against is neutronium.

[seanrobertson]

That should penetrate the standard Stormtrooper's armor, since its equivalent effects are greater than weapons which we have observed killing Troopers; e.g., Solo's blaster, which "only" fried Greedo.

Solo's blaster could have been put on a lower power level. After that scene, he killed several Stormtroopers and blew out large chunks of walls in docking bay 94.

Lower setting? Can his pistol even do that? I just remember him unholstering the thing and arming it; he didn't seem to tinker with a lower-powered setting or the like.

[seanrobertson]

This leads to the obvious question, then: when your enemy would be easily killed by a full-power shot in his general vicinity if the high power figures are to be believed, why not use one? Why not use high-power shots to blow away the enemy's cover instead of popping up, shooting, and ducking back down?

Other than stupidity, inability to destroy the crates is most likely. If they're made of metal, that's not a big surprise.

Incidentally, what do you regard as high power figures?

[SirNitram]

That should penetrate the standard Stormtrooper's armor, since its equivalent effects are greater than weapons which we have observed killing Troopers; e.g., Solo's blaster, which "only" fried Greedo.

Solo's blaster could have been put on a lower power level. After that scene, he killed several Stormtroopers and blew out large chunks of walls in docking bay 94.

Lower setting? Can his pistol even do that? I just remember him unholstering the thing and arming it; he didn't seem to tinker with a lower-powered setting or the like.

Given the vastly different effects on nearby stone/concrete, I'd say there must be. It may be an easy thumb-toggle.

[Kamakazie Sith]

That should penetrate the standard Stormtrooper's armor, since its equivalent effects are greater than weapons which we have observed killing Troopers; e.g., Solo's blaster, which "only" fried Greedo.

Solo's blaster could have been put on a lower power level. After that scene, he killed several Stormtroopers and blew out large chunks of walls in docking bay 94.

Lower setting? Can his pistol even do that? I just remember him unholstering the thing and arming it; he didn't seem to tinker with a lower-powered setting or the like.

We really didn't see much of anything. Han could have easily flipped a setting without us(the audience) noticing.

[seanrobertson]

Solo's blaster could have been put on a lower power level. After that scene, he killed several Stormtroopers and blew out large chunks of walls in docking bay 94.

Lower setting? Can his pistol even do that? I just remember him unholstering the thing and arming it; he didn't seem to tinker with a lower-powered setting or the like.

We really didn't see much of anything. Han could have easily flipped a setting without us(the audience) noticing.

Entirely possible, but is there really good reason to assume that his pistol must have variable settings? I've looked for that kind of information on Google and can't find it.