Stormtroopers vs THESE Federation troops

[Lord Poe]

Entirely possible, but is there really good reason to assume that his pistol must have variable settings? I've looked for that kind of information on Google and can't find it.

The Krytos Trap

pg. 80:

"Blasters have more than just a stun setting, you know."

[Kerneth]

Entirely possible, but is there really good reason to assume that his pistol must have variable settings? I've looked for that kind of information on Google and can't find it.

The Krytos Trap

pg. 80:

"Blasters have more than just a stun setting, you know."

Page 80 is Kirtan Loor discussing the bacta situation on Coruscant with Nartlo, and Loor suggests making an example of one or two people, then says "Blasters have more than just a stun setting, you know."

All that quote demonstrates is that blasters have a kill setting as well as a stun. Big surprise there.

[Lord Poe]

All that quote demonstrates is that blasters have a kill setting as well as a stun. Big surprise there.

Han Solo at Star's End

Han did. The Burning was a torture involving the use of a blaster set at low power, to scorch and sear the flesh off a prisoner, leaving only blood-smeared bone. Usually, a leg would be first, immobilizing the vicitim; then the rest of the skeleton was exposed, inch by inch. Any other prisoners could be made to watch, to break their will. The Burning seldom failed to obtain answers, if answers were to be hand; but in Han's opinion, no being who employed such methods deserved to live.

[seanrobertson]

Given the vastly different effects on nearby stone/concrete, I'd say there must be. It may be an easy thumb-toggle.

Crap. I just missed your post as I was putting up my last one. I wanted to talk about this.

You might be right, Nitram. But I'm not convinced that frying Greedo and turning head-sized chunks of concrete red hot necessarily require vastly different power levels.

If that "head-sized" descriptor is about accurate, let's go with the size of my head for starters. It's 10" tall and 21" in circumference, so we could approximate its shape as a sphere with a radius of 10.5", or 26.7 cm.

My head would therefore have a volume of .07 cubic meters. Si's density is 2330 kg/m³ (trying to approximate for stone), so the mass of material we're looking at is 163 kilos.

Let's say the stuff is at an initial temperature of about 293 kelvins, and Solo's blaster heat that chunk up by 200 K...that should be enough to make it glow red.

If my math is right, you could do that with about 20 megajoules.

I do not know how that would stack up to BBQing Greedo, or if that's accurate even from the beginning assumption of glow vs. something more substantial, but I wanted somebody to throw out numbers damn it

[Kerneth]

All that quote demonstrates is that blasters have a kill setting as well as a stun. Big surprise there.

Han Solo at Star's End

Han did. The Burning was a torture involving the use of a blaster set at low power, to scorch and sear the flesh off a prisoner, leaving only blood-smeared bone. Usually, a leg would be first, immobilizing the vicitim; then the rest of the skeleton was exposed, inch by inch. Any other prisoners could be made to watch, to break their will. The Burning seldom failed to obtain answers, if answers were to be hand; but in Han's opinion, no being who employed such methods deserved to live.

That's better. Blasters have settings other than kill and stun. But you gotta admit the first quote didn't prove that

[seanrobertson]

All that quote demonstrates is that blasters have a kill setting as well as a stun. Big surprise there.

Han Solo at Star's End

Han did. The Burning was a torture involving the use of a blaster set at low power, to scorch and sear the flesh off a prisoner, leaving only blood-smeared bone. Usually, a leg would be first, immobilizing the vicitim; then the rest of the skeleton was exposed, inch by inch. Any other prisoners could be made to watch, to break their will. The Burning seldom failed to obtain answers, if answers were to be hand; but in Han's opinion, no being who employed such methods deserved to live.

Wayne,

Thanks for the reference to variable power, but I'm not ready yet to conclude the Greedo-killing shot was also low-powered.

For one thing, in the passage you've cited, this low powered blaster is being moved along the target "inch by inch," exposing (but not destroying) bone. It sounds like a welder's torch if that powerful.

OTOH, the Greedo killer totally incinerated the guy; a shot to the torso spread heat through Greedo's body fast enough that his head was a smoldering cinder when it fell forward banged the table. That would have to be markedly more powerful than the low-power setting in _The Kryptos' Trap_; otherwise, such torture could not be used to burn away flesh by the inch--it'd simply spread too quickly and kill the victim.

To dismiss the Greedo-killing shot as low-powered, we'd have to guess that there are stun, very low, low (or medium), AND maximum power settings. It's possible, I suppose, but I'd prefer to see whether or not the blaster's observed effects in ANH are quantiably consistent before going any further with the settings idea. I'm not wholly convinced that you cannot fry a green bounty hunter AND shoot holes in a wall with the same magnitude of firepower.

[seanrobertson]

OTOH, the Greedo killer totally incinerated the guy; a shot to the torso spread heat through Greedo's body fast enough that his head was a smoldering cinder when it fell forward banged the table. That would have to be markedly more powerful than the low-power setting in _The Kryptos' Trap_; otherwise, such torture could not be used to burn away flesh by the inch--it'd simply spread too quickly and kill the victim.

Where is that damned edit when I need it?

"...when it fell forward AND banged the table."

I HATE making typos.

[Kerneth]

Keep in mind we'd also need to know a bit more about Rodian physiology. They may require more or less heat to be burnt to carbon than a human. There ARE species in Star Wars who can shrug off bolts from blaster pistols, after all, and though Rodians aren't mentioned as one of them it's possible it requires a signficant amount more energy to crisp a Rodian than other species.

[Howedar]

The games make no such suggestion.

[Lord Poe]

All that quote demonstrates is that blasters have a kill setting as well as a stun. Big surprise there.

Han Solo at Star's End

Han did. The Burning was a torture involving the use of a blaster set at low power, to scorch and sear the flesh off a prisoner, leaving only blood-smeared bone. Usually, a leg would be first, immobilizing the vicitim; then the rest of the skeleton was exposed, inch by inch. Any other prisoners could be made to watch, to break their will. The Burning seldom failed to obtain answers, if answers were to be hand; but in Han's opinion, no being who employed such methods deserved to live.

That's better. Blasters have settings other than kill and stun. But you gotta admit the first quote didn't prove that

Dick!

[Ender]

The games make no such suggestion.

Game mechanics ae irrelevent. The games also make no suggestion that an ISD cannot be killed by a lone fighter.





Poe: MMmmmmmh, powdered donuts.

[Lord Poe]

Thanks for the reference to variable power, but I'm not ready yet to conclude the Greedo-killing shot was also low-powered.

For one thing, in the passage you've cited, this low powered blaster is being moved along the target "inch by inch," exposing (but not destroying) bone. It sounds like a welder's torch if that powerful.

OTOH, the Greedo killer totally incinerated the guy; a shot to the torso spread heat through Greedo's body fast enough that his head was a smoldering cinder when it fell forward banged the table. That would have to be markedly more powerful than the low-power setting in _The Kryptos' Trap_; otherwise, such torture could not be used to burn away flesh by the inch--it'd simply spread too quickly and kill the victim.

To dismiss the Greedo-killing shot as low-powered, we'd have to guess that there are stun, very low, low (or medium), AND maximum power settings. It's possible, I suppose, but I'd prefer to see whether or not the blaster's observed effects in ANH are quantiably consistent before going any further with the settings idea. I'm not wholly convinced that you cannot fry a green bounty hunter AND shoot holes in a wall with the same magnitude of firepower.

We only see it fired in those scenes in ANH. I really don't understandyour reluctance here. Do you believe blasters have low powered settings or not? Does it MATTER if Solo fired at Greedo with the same setting as the walls in docking bay 94?

[seanrobertson]

We only see it fired in those scenes in ANH. I really don't understandyour reluctance here. Do you believe blasters have low powered settings or not?

I'm not really reluctant to conclude the blaster has variable settings. You just demonstrated that with an official source.

What I'm saying is, that low-power torture shooting isn't the same as that which killed Greedo. One is very gradual in effect; the other isn't.

I am only relucant vis-a-vis variable settings in a certain context--that is, the power differential between the Greedo shot and those that hit the walls.

Why?

Does it MATTER if Solo fired at Greedo with the same setting as the walls in docking bay 94?

It matters because earlier I said this:


That [phaser rifle at maximum] should penetrate the standard Stormtrooper's armor, since its equivalent effects are greater than weapons which we have observed killing Troopers; e.g., Solo's blaster, which "only" fried Greedo.


To which IRG CommandoJoe responded:


Solo's blaster could have been put on a lower power level. After that scene, he killed several Stormtroopers and blew out large chunks of walls in docking bay 94.


That's what I'm responding to, Wayne. That's why I asked if the thing even had variable settings. We now know that it does, but we don't know if there's a setting between "very slowly sear" and "superheat parts of the wall that shatter."

See what I mean?

I am not claiming, or am I reluctant to conclude that there are simply no variable settings "period." I'm saying it's not necessarily the case that Solo couldn't fry Greedo AND shoot chunks out of walls with, say, 20 MJ blasts.

[Howedar]

The games make no such suggestion.

Game mechanics ae irrelevent. The games also make no suggestion that an ISD cannot be killed by a lone fighter.

They're very slightly more official than nothing, last I checked. Certainly, we have no reason to assume that Greedo-ians are any more resistant to blasters than any other race; I was merely pointing out that the games do not make such a claim.

[Crayz9000]

Greedo's species is Rodian, BTW.

[Companion Cube]

http://st-ef2.com/downloads/EF2c_800x600.jpg

WTF? Has the ST universe been invaded by Tyranids?

It was only a matter of time...

[Darth Negation]

AAArgh. My computer isn't able to run Quake 3 engines. No Q3, no elite force, no JK2...

[Ender]

The games make no such suggestion.

Game mechanics ae irrelevent. The games also make no suggestion that an ISD cannot be killed by a lone fighter.

They're very slightly more official than nothing, last I checked.

Last time I checked, Game mechanics were rated as less official then "Potral"

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Last time I checked, Game mechanics were rated as less official then "Potral"

Indeed. Unless of course, Howedar, you'd like to explain to me how an X-Wing can kill an ISD with a pair of proton torpedoes, and how the durability of an AT-AT can change so rapidly between Shadows of the Empire (N64), Rouge Squadron (N64), to Force Commander (PC), to SW: Galactic Battle Grounds (PC), to Rouge Squadron 2 (GameCube).

Game mechanics are rated as NOTHING. The events that happen in games are official, but mechanics are useless.

[Howedar]

So a TIE defender could very well be weaker than a Z-95. Gotcha.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

So a TIE defender could very well be weaker than a Z-95. Gotcha.

And from what source did this crop up from?

[Howedar]

I didn't say it was, just that it could be. Game mechanics are worthless, after all.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I didn't say it was, just that it could be. Game mechanics are worthless, after all.

...Are you trying to get at something with this? 'Cause I'm not picking up on it if you are...

[Howedar]

Game mechanics must have *some* official standing. It may be lower than absolutely everything else, but if one completely disregards game mechanics, then game events begin to make no sense.

[Ender]

I didn't say it was, just that it could be. Game mechanics are worthless, after all.

Fortunatly the fact that a TIE Defender is one of the best starfighters ever was confirmed in the novels and in the game books, so your attempt at misusing game mechanics falls flat.