Why did the Borg stop adapting?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-04-26 12:21am

The Borg, originally, could be harmed but phaser shots, but then they would adapt to them and become immune. We even see this in "First Contact."

Why did they seem to stop adapting in "Voyager?" The USS Piece of Shit (Voyager) would routinely open fire to disable cubes and even destroy them! What the hell?

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-04-26 12:34am

Um, when did Voyager take out or disable cubes, aside from Endgame?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-04-26 12:39am

I can't think of any off the top of my head (I'm sure that someone will help me out here), but just one encounter with the Borg should have resulted in Voyager's destruction.

HappyTarget · Post by **HappyTarget** » 2003-04-26 03:14am

The way I see it, the Federation upgraded their weapons systems post BoBW to better combat the Borg threat. It made the Borg adaption less of a killer factor than it was in early Borg encounters. Sure the Borg still adapted to hand weapons and such after a bit, but shipboard weapons were still able to get at least SOME damage through to target (as evidenced by the fact that the FC fleet was accually slowly accruing damage on the Cube before Picard ordered a strike on it's sweet spot.)

With the new Fed weapons systems, I see ship vs. ship adaption being relagated to souping up shields and weapons vs standard enemy weapons and shields, rather than making ones ship invulnerable to fire like Q Who? Borg were. (basically make Borg shields best at negating phasers, photons and quantums and make Borg weapons best at punching through standard Feddie shields).

That's my own pet theory on the subject.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-04-26 04:20am

I don't think so. The Borg were significantly more advanced than Starfleet. This is a piss poor excuse. This would be like the Iraqis building a battle ship that technologically rival ours (the U.S.).

And consider this. Despite the fact that B & B seem to think that Starfleet is more technologically advanced that any race or society in the universe, the Borg are assimilating new races daily. Probably daily. With each new assimilation could come new resources and new technologies. The Borg should be advancing at a much faster rate than Starfleet anyway.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-26 04:34am

The Borg may only be able to adapt to a limited number of weapons types at one time, and there ships in the Delta quadrant would be oriented towards facing the local weapons types rather then one off Federation Phaser's and torpedoes.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-04-26 04:36am

There was one time in which Voyager was going up against a Borg scout vessel in which Voyager maneged to deal significant damage via direct weapons fire. Another time, it went up against a cube isolated from the rest of the collective piloted by a bunch of kids. All other times, when Voyager engaged in direct ship to ship combat, it got owned (not counting Endgame.)

Edit:
Other times I remember in which Voyager engages Borg was
Q2: Q's son teleports three cubes against Voyager. Voyager gets owned.
Dark Fronteir:Delta Flyer equipped with shields designed to scatter Borg sensors sneak up to a bunch of Borg vessles. It is eventually detected.
Drone: Voyager gets jumped by a Tactical Sphere. It gets owned, but the advanced drone they got saves the day.
Child's Play: Voyager engages a Cube to little effect. They beam a torpedo into a ship the Cube was tractoring in. It damages the Cube, but doesn't destroy it.
Unimatrix Zero: Voyager engages a tactical cube. It gets owned. The Delta Flyer gets blown up in four hits.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-04-26 05:23am

Sea Skimmer, what about the original cubes that invaded the Alpha Quandrant?

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-04-26 06:38am

Yogi wrote:There was one time in which Voyager was going up against a Borg scout vessel in which Voyager maneged to deal significant damage via direct weapons fire. Another time, it went up against a cube isolated from the rest of the collective piloted by a bunch of kids. All other times, when Voyager engaged in direct ship to ship combat, it got owned (not counting Endgame.)

Edit:
Other times I remember in which Voyager engages Borg was
Q2: Q's son teleports three cubes against Voyager. Voyager gets owned.
Dark Fronteir:Delta Flyer equipped with shields designed to scatter Borg sensors sneak up to a bunch of Borg vessles. It is eventually detected.
Drone: Voyager gets jumped by a Tactical Sphere. It gets owned, but the advanced drone they got saves the day.
Child's Play: Voyager engages a Cube to little effect. They beam a torpedo into a ship the Cube was tractoring in. It damages the Cube, but doesn't destroy it.
Unimatrix Zero: Voyager engages a tactical cube. It gets owned. The Delta Flyer gets blown up in four hits.

Actually I gotta say it is impressive to see some one stand up for Voyagers record against the Borg! While Voyager did manage to ESCAPE the Borg on several occasions, they never really did defeat them(except in 'Endgame').

The Voyager crew were better able to adapt to the Borg and their defences because they had 7 of 9 !!!!

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-04-26 09:06am

The problem is bad writting.

But serriously Superman we get the message, you don't like Borg from Voyager. The 1st 3 threads you started got the message accross, now your just being annoying.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-04-26 01:29pm

Death from the Sea wrote:Actually I gotta say it is impressive to see some one stand up for Voyagers record against the Borg!

Wouldn't it be, the Borg's record against Voyager?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-04-26 02:25pm

I seem to recall an episode where they beamed a torp into a sphere and blew it to bits.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-04-26 02:28pm

It was not a sphere. It was shaped vaguely like a photon torpedo.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2003-04-26 02:39pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:I seem to recall an episode where they beamed a torp into a sphere and blew it to bits.

That's probably the scout ship incident I mensioned earlier.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-04-26 02:40pm

Well i think it was the episode where they tired to steal a transwarp drive and the broken one they found was about the size of a basketball.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-04-26 03:07pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:Well i think it was the episode where they tired to steal a transwarp drive and the broken one they found was about the size of a basketball.

That's fucking small. Shit. In my universe ship grade FTL drives are huge. hahaha

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-26 04:02pm

Superman, just to let you know, I don't think the Borg assimilate species "on a daily basis".

The highest species number is Species 10026, which was assimilated in Season 5 (2375).

Species 6339 was assimilated in 2371

Species 8472 was probably first encountered by the Borg in or shortly before 2373.

Humans are Species 5618, and Vulcans are Species 3259.

If we assume that the first time the Borg first contacted humans was when they assimilated 7 of 9 and her family (2354), then the Borg have contacted 4408 species in 21 years. This averages out to 210 species discovered and catalogued per year, or about four a week (.57 a day).

Out of the 22 Species mentioned onscreen, 11 of those either might or have been assimilated, while 7 definately have been. This makes the assimilation rate range from 2 species a week to almost 6 species a month, with an average of 1.7 species a week.

This is really rough and a little non-scientific, though.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-26 05:03pm

Okay, brand new set of calcs.

Species 262 was assimilated in 2154, so that makes a pretty big difference:

9764 species were discovered and catalogued by the Borg in 230 years.

That makes for an average of 42.45 species dicovered and catalogued per year, or 3.57 per month.

Based on my assimilation estimates in the above post, that makes for an assimilation rate between 21.23 species per year (1.7 per week) and 13.58 species per year (1.13 per month), with an average of 17.4 species per year or 3 every two months (1.5 per month).

The assimilation of species that are discovered and catalogued is between 50 and 32 percent, with the average being 41%.

Conclusion: The Borg discover and catalogue 3.57 species per month (or one every 8 days and 14 hours), and on average assimilate 1.5 species per month (or one every 21 days).

EDIT: I'm going do a totally different set of calcs for three different periods. But for now, just hang with these.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-04-26 06:01pm

Not all species encountered were assimilated.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-26 06:02pm

DUH!!

If you read my posts, you'll see that I estimate that they assimilate about 41% of the species they catalogue...

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-26 06:22pm

There really is no reason why Voyager was able to withstand that bombardment from Borg Cubes on a regular basis. All other times we see the Borg they are kicking the crap out of Federation warships, and usually far more than one.

You know, Wolf 359 (BoBW, DS9 pilot), and FC we see Borg Cubes creaming over a dozen Fed vessels in seconds. Yet Voyager - not even a warship but a science/exploration vessel - has survived numerous encounters with them.

And with the Borg assimilating a new species every couple of weeks or so (according to Spanky's calcs) they should be developing new defenses against the Feds, instead of it being the other way around.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-26 07:01pm

Okay, I've got everything figured out and refined, so here are the brand new and final calcs.

By the year 2375, the Borg had encountered and catalogued at least 10026 species.

Species 10026 was assimilated in 2375.
I'm assuming that Species 5618, humans, was catalogued in 2354, when 7 of 9 and her parants were assimilated.
Species 262 was assimilated in 2154.

There have been 22 Species mentioned on Voyager. 11 of these either have been or might have been assimilated, while 7 definately have been.

This means the assimilation rate has a high of 50% and a low of 32%, with an average of 41%.

Between 2354 and 2375, 4408 species are catalogued in 21 years. This makes for an average of 209.9 species catalogued per year or 17.49 per month (one every one day and 17 hours).

The assimilation rate for this time has a high of 104.95 per year (one every 3 days, 12 hours), a low of 67.17 per year (one every 5 days, 10 hours), and an average of 86.06 per year (one every 4 days, 6 hours).

In summary: between 2354 and 2375, the Borg catalogued 4408 species. The catalogue avarage was 210 species per year, and the assimilation rate had an average of 86 species per year.

Between 2154 and 2354, the Borg catalogued 4146 species in 200 years. This makes for an average of 20.73 species catalogued per year, or 1.73 per month (one every 17 days, 15 hours).

The assimilation rate for this time has a high of 10.37 per year (one every 35 days), a low of 6.63 per year (one every 55 days), and an average of 8.5 per year (one every 43 days).

In summary: Between 2154 and 2354, the Borg catalogued 4146 species. The catalogue average was 210 species per year, and the assimilation rate had an average of 8.5 per year.

Also, if we use the yearly average for the 200 year period on the first 262 species, we find that it takes them 12.63 years to catalogue them. This might suggest that the Borg started their expanse in 2141 or 2142.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-04-27 01:43am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Also, if we use the yearly average for the 200 year period on the first 262 species, we find that it takes them 12.63 years to catalogue them. This might suggest that the Borg started their expanse in 2141 or 2142.

Or at least, that's when they started assimilating species. "Q Who" indicated they'd been around for a lot longer than that. On the other hand, "Q Who" indicated a lot of things which had been forgotten even by First Contact, and by the time Voyager was done with them, they bore no resembalence to the threat they had been.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-04-27 01:58am

Yeah, that's what I meant. I should have phrased it differently.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-04-27 02:05am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:DUH!!

If you read my posts, you'll see that I estimate that they assimilate about 41% of the species they catalogue...

God damnit, I hate it when people intersperse information throughout their post, instead of just putting it all at the end so you can skip the boring middle.