Wow, I never knew I was racist....

Post by **Steve** » 2003-04-26 11:35pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Steve wrote:I know that an apology doesn't make a wrong or perceived wrong go away, but isn't it supposed to alleviate it?

If I had asked them at the door it probably would've been better.
True. For a while at the local Wal-Mart, they used to ask EVERYBODY for their receipts at the door. But having an employee chase you out to your car is going to raise an eyebrow, like it or not.

Hence why I probably should've done it at the door. I shouldn't have second-guessed letting them go.

And they do that at my Wal-Mart too, but they don't do it to me because I shop there a lot and they know me by face.

If there's no lasting repercussions, don't worry about it and take it as a learning experience.

And if there is lasting repercussions, I'll just wait until my 21st birthday in August, then go get plastered.

Well, I'll be honest, my greatest fear at work is not related to this incident. No, my fear is this:
I'm, well, a big guy, as my normal screenname says. I stand at 6'5"+ (DL says 6'7" but I think the measurer at the Driver's License Bureau was mislabeled or placed shorter to the ground than it should've been) with a large profile. Now, at least once a week, I close, and even with DST now in effect, it's dark by eight thirty. Even with the parking lot lights on it can be pretty dark, especially in the shadows of the trees we have planted around the lot. And on at least two occasions (including once tonight) I have stepped up to a group of ladies doing late-shopping and scared them just by approaching, because they don't notice my name tag.
So my fear is that one of these nights, I'm going to get a face full of mace or pepper spray!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-26 11:40pm

Darth Wong wrote:It's not just stuff that happened 200 years ago. Are you seriously saying there is no discrimination against blacks in society any more?

Mike, there are also plenty of minorities that are perfectly willing to jump on you simply for baring to enforce the rules for them. I know I had plenty of hassles with that from black and hispanics; they immediately accussed me of racism for enforcing store policy.

In short, a lot of them get offended by white person daring to do your job.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-26 11:43pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It's not just stuff that happened 200 years ago. Are you seriously saying there is no discrimination against blacks in society any more?
Mike, there are also plenty of minorities that are perfectly willing to jump on you simply for baring to enforce the rules for them. I know I had plenty of hassles with that from black and hispanics; they immediately accussed me of racism for enforcing store policy.

In short, a lot of them get offended by white person daring to do your job.

And what does this have to do with the incident in question, since there was no store policy stating that people who left through the wrong door are automatically considered shoplifters and will be harassed in the parking lot? Even if it was an honest mistake, it's hardly unreasonable for the victim of such treatment to react badly. Or are you just using this as an excuse to bitch about how hard it is to be a white man in America?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-26 11:52pm

And what does this have to do with the incident in question, since there was no store policy stating that people who left through the wrong door are automatically considered shoplifters and will be harassed in the parking lot? Even if it was an honest mistake, it's hardly unreasonable for the victim of such treatment to react badly.

I'm saying I think they overreacted to assume it was racism and attempt to get him fired. It was a misunderstanding but being asked to show a reciept isn't exactly harassment. They left through the wrong door without showing a reciept to anyone and so were asked to show a reciept, reasonable enough. Especially when you consider Steve apologized.

Or are you just using this as an excuse to bitch about how hard it is to be a white man in America?

It's not that hard. I'm just saying some people overreact and make a mountain out a molehill. I've had the same sort of experience as Steve and in my cases I found it was never actually justified.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-04-26 11:57pm

Just tell your side of the story and stick to your guns, you will be fine.

*EDIT* Then again if they are anything like America Online, you are screwed......

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-27 12:04am

What I want to know is: Why is it racist to ask people that left through the wrong door, and showed no reciept when they did so, to see their reciept?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-04-27 01:49am

Darth Wong wrote:since there was no store policy stating that people who left through the wrong door are automatically considered shoplifters and will be harassed in the parking lot?

I'll bet it is store policy to stop people for their receipt if you think there's a decent chance they're shoplifting.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-27 01:52am

Stormbringer wrote:What I want to know is: Why is it racist to ask people that left through the wrong door, and showed no reciept when they did so, to see their reciept?

It isn't, and I'll kindly ask you to read my posts on this subject. I already said that I think it was probably an honest mistake. However, since the customers in question thought they'd done nothing wrong or suspicious, it was hardly unreasonable of them to react that way when harassed in the fucking parking lot.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-04-27 10:41am

It does seem unfair to Steve to cause all this shit over an honest mistake like this. It's even more unfair for a man to be accused of racism when he was only doing his job. America at the moment is so sensitive to discrimination that it overreacts and creats reverse racism etc. And it looks like steve here could be a casualty of this.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-04-27 10:51am

Darth Wong wrote:But to lash out at them when they had every right to feel like they were unjustly harassed is completely unreasonable.

There's not a scrap of evidence to suggest he singled out black customers in such a way, so to claim racism is total BS. They might be suspicious, but that's no justification to possibly get someone's job endangered shooting their mouth off with no real evidence, circumstancial or otherwise.

namdoolb · Post by **namdoolb** » 2003-04-27 12:29pm

Steve wrote: Well, I'll be honest, my greatest fear at work is not related to this incident. No, my fear is this:
I'm, well, a big guy, as my normal screenname says. I stand at 6'5"+ (DL says 6'7" but I think the measurer at the Driver's License Bureau was mislabeled or placed shorter to the ground than it should've been) with a large profile. Now, at least once a week, I close, and even with DST now in effect, it's dark by eight thirty. Even with the parking lot lights on it can be pretty dark, especially in the shadows of the trees we have planted around the lot. And on at least two occasions (including once tonight) I have stepped up to a group of ladies doing late-shopping and scared them just by approaching, because they don't notice my name tag.
So my fear is that one of these nights, I'm going to get a face full of mace or pepper spray!

There's an easy enough fix for that - clothing.
Seriously, get yourself one of those flourescent yellow coats with the refelctive strips on.
Firstly, it will make you very visible.
secondly it works by psychology; it's very obviously work clothing, therefore you're at work,... and supposed to be there. Sort of turns your whole body into a name tag.

You might already have one, but it doesn't sound like it from what you said above.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-04-27 01:07pm

The interesting thing I found at work was that it was always the most physically unintimidating people we had on staff who were accused of racism, especially if the customer chose to make a scene in the middle of the store. Personally, I've had customers go off at me for everything but racism.
The truly funny thing was explaining to the one customer that no, Bob isn't racist, he hates everybody.

Shinigami · Post by **Shinigami** » 2003-04-27 05:34pm

The only question that needs to be asked is whether you explained the door situation, Steve? This would've helped the couple see your apology as heartfelt. If they don't know about the door, all they see is some white guy stopping them in the parking lot without a just explanation. This would piss anybody off, but the fact that you're white and they were black only adds to that. As a matter of fact, if others went through that same door and weren't stopped, they'd need only to recall that and there goes an argument for discrimination. Whether or not you specified why you ask for a receipt probably wouldn't matter. All they would need to see is one white person walk through that door, and that'll raise an eyebrow. You made a simple mistake that most people make, you never looked at things from their point of view(assuming you didn't clarify the door situation) while apologizing. You're not as bad as some of the others who've posted in this thread. Some of you seem not think of other people's positions in life in general. That's why you refuse to recognize that man's right to be angry at the situation. You won't look at both sides objectively, rather you'll bitch about how minorities(who are constantly oppressed in country) don't treat white people fairly. Are you fuckin' kidding me? Not only does that have nothing to do with the situation, but it comes from an inaccurate point of view. To think that minorities are capable of "reverse racism" or that they owe white people fair treatment, gives in to the notion that everyone is on an equal playing field. I'm sure everyone here knows better than that.

Post by **Steve** » 2003-04-27 05:59pm

I did tell her that the door was the wrong door.

Shinigami · Post by **Shinigami** » 2003-04-27 06:41pm

Steve wrote:I did tell her that the door was the wrong door.

That helped, but only a little. As I said before, if he saw one white person go through that same door and not be stopped, it seems like unwarranted harassment to him. Either way you slice it, this wasn't the first time something like this happened to that guy I'm sure. I'm betting that he saw your explanation about the door as an excuse. And if he did, could you blame him? Maybe there were other people who used that door that you didn't see, and that would only serve to prove his point. This whole situation was obviously a misunderstanding. Neither side responded accordingly, and you've already recognized that.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-04-27 07:09pm

Darth Wong wrote: Correct, but they had every bit as much justification to accuse you of racism as you did to accuse them of shoplifting, did they not? It's one thing to do something for no reason at all, but in both your case and theirs, you DID have some reason for reacting that way.

Actually Steve had EVERY reason to "accuse" them of shoplifting. I can count three "triggers" for this - no sign of a receipt, coming out a normally off limits door and not emerging from near the registers. Now following them out to the car is always a bit sus, but it is part of his job.

They can feel "violated" all they want but any complaint should be instantly dismissed.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-27 08:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:It isn't, and I'll kindly ask you to read my posts on this subject. I already said that I think it was probably an honest mistake. However, since the customers in question thought they'd done nothing wrong or suspicious, it was hardly unreasonable of them to react that way when harassed in the fucking parking lot.

The question was in regard to the behaviour of the people not your specifc remarks. It's pretty obvious that they simply overreacted and there is no reason at all for them to assume racism. The fact that the manager is getting involved is patently ridiculous.

Shinigami · Post by **Shinigami** » 2003-04-28 10:10pm

weemadando wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Correct, but they had every bit as much justification to accuse you of racism as you did to accuse them of shoplifting, did they not? It's one thing to do something for no reason at all, but in both your case and theirs, you DID have some reason for reacting that way.
Actually Steve had EVERY reason to "accuse" them of shoplifting. I can count three "triggers" for this - no sign of a receipt, coming out a normally off limits door and not emerging from near the registers. Now following them out to the car is always a bit sus, but it is part of his job.

They can feel "violated" all they want but any complaint should be instantly dismissed.

IIRC they were carrying bags that couldn't have been smuggled in. I know I(as well as everyone I know) usually put the receipt away after a purchase, so expecting it to be in plain sight is absurd in most cases. And as already specified, most customers didn't know the door was "off-limits", so that can't be used as a factor.

BTW, it's never a good idea to dismiss a customers complaint. God, I hope you don't own a store. You take it into account and learn from it.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-04-28 10:27pm

Here's the thing.. how many of you carry your receipt in hand when you walk out of the door? I usually place mine in my wallet or dump it into the bag. I'm not calling you a racist or anything, but could there have been at least a little bias on your part to approach them and ask for a receipt? I'm sure we all have one a little thanks to popular media and such.

For instance, I was walking out of K-Mart with supplies for my dorm room and the alarms went off. The guy comes out with scanner in hand and asks to see my receipt.. I give it to him, he doesn't even look at it as he decides it must've been my DVD (DVD's being sold at another register) and let's me go without further investigation.

Post by **Steve** » 2003-04-28 11:59pm

No, because I would have stopped anyone just to cover my ass.

But apparently I'm not in trouble. My store manager didn't even hear about it until I told him, so apparently this person didn't make a fuss, and he said I did the proper thing and followed procedure.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-04-29 02:17am

Shinigami wrote: IIRC they were carrying bags that couldn't have been smuggled in. I know I(as well as everyone I know) usually put the receipt away after a purchase, so expecting it to be in plain sight is absurd in most cases. And as already specified, most customers didn't know the door was "off-limits", so that can't be used as a factor.

BTW, it's never a good idea to dismiss a customers complaint. God, I hope you don't own a store. You take it into account and learn from it.

Sure, learn from the complaint but the complaint against Steve should definately not be followed through on.

And this is coming from someone who has repeatedly&successfully and not at all proud of it been on the other side of the law in this situation.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-29 02:20am

weemadando wrote:Sure, learn from the complaint but the complaint against Steve should definately not be followed through on.

And it wasn't. But this thread started with people immediately trying to BASH this couple for reacting defensively when a store clerk chased them out to their car and accused them of shoplifting, and that's just ridiculous.