I beat Wind Waker! *Soul crushing spoilers*

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-12 08:44pm

Then why aren't there any Deku Trees in Hyrule? The Koroks aren't going to let all of the Deku Trees die off, you know. And why'd the Rito become hostile water dwellers? In Wind Waker, they're very friendly. Plus, there's still the weird coincidence of the names of landmarks.

The seeds of Hyrule line is spoken by the King of Red Lions.

10 pieces, IIRC (the eight Wisdom I counted as one; Power; and Courage [although that wasn't acutally in the game, the fact that the Triforce of Courage wasn't in anyone's possesion means that it counts as a separate piece]).

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-04-12 08:59pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:Then why aren't there any Deku Trees in Hyrule? The Koroks aren't going to let all of the Deku Trees die off, you know.

EDIT:(forgot a word) There aren't a lot of things not in LttP that are in OoT too, Gorons, Deku Trees, Korok. I've yet to see anything that would make it seem that WW is outside the timeline.

And why'd the Rito become hostile water dwellers? In Wind Waker, they're very friendly.

The Zora's too were quite friendly comepared to their LttP forms.

Plus, there's still the weird coincidence of the names of landmarks.

Because it's the same Hyrule.

The seeds of Hyrule line is spoken by the King of Red Lions.

I don't remember it specifying who said that, their was just a black screen and the words appeared.

10 pieces, IIRC (the eight Wisdom I counted as one; Power; and Courage [although that wasn't acutally in the game, the fact that the Triforce of Courage wasn't in anyone's possesion means that it counts as a separate piece]).

Since Nintendo's own stand is that 1&2 take place the furtherest along the timeline, then the triforce must some time be shattered again after LttP.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-12 09:38pm

anarchistbunny wrote:
The seeds of Hyrule line is spoken by the King of Red Lions.
I don't remember it specifying who said that, their was just a black screen and the words appeared.

I guessing it was the King who said that, since the line appears right after Link blacks out during the flood.

The Zora's too were quite friendly comepared to their LttP forms.

That's actually another thing that bugs me. The Rito are, in fact, the Zora. If you look at Medli's dress, the Zora Emblem is inscribed on it. My friend also tells me that her hair is supposed to be reminiscient of the tail thing at the back of the Zora's head, but I don't see the resemblance. Anyway, how exactly do the Rito become the Zora again, and why? I would think that as Rito they have more versatility than as Zora, making the Rito form preferable.

EDIT:(forgot a word) There aren't a lot of things not in LttP that are in OoT too, Gorons, Deku Trees, Korok. I've yet to see anything that would make it seem that WW is outside the timeline.

Speaking of the Gorons, where'd they disappear off to? There are three of them in Wind Waker.

Because it's the same Hyrule.

But it's not Hyrule. The King says it himself: It "will not be Hyrule...it will be YOUR land!" Hyrule is flooded, buried under the sea, and there's no indication that the Great Sea is receding with Ganondorf's defeat. In fact, the King's wish makes it practically impossible, since he wants Hyrule to remain at the bottom of the sea.

Besides, the time frame isn't right. LttP, using in game dialogue, takes place 3 or 4 generations after the Imprisoning War (OoT). By the King of Red Lion's statement, Wind Waker takes place hundreds of years after the creation of the Great Sea. That is not 3 or 4 generations after OoT.

PS. The fact that the Master Sword is buried in Ganondorf's head at the bottom of the sea is interesting. What if one day someone with the potential to be a Hero goes treasure hunting and accidently pulls it out?

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-04-12 09:58pm

The Rito are puzzling, they have beaks, kinda, but they can't grow wings. Wait a minute, if I remember correctly, we've only seen Zora in fresh water, so when the seas flood hyrule, they lack a fresh water source, so they go to the nearest mountain, Death Mountain(I think Death Mountain == Dragon Roost Mountain). They could then evolve into a bird like spieces(maybe with or without the aid of the gods or perhaps Jabu Jabu/Jaban), or may due to the exposer of the dragon scales that allow them to grow wings aided in their change, and when the waters receed, they return to the rivers, the effects of the scales eventually wear off over a generation or two, and they become amphibians again.

The Gorons might not have been able/willing to flee to the mountains, and only a few survived.

King says that in response to Tetra's plan to find a new homeland(which may not be possible, Hyrule would have to be hella below sea level to be flooded up to the mountains, and their still be a large enough piece of land for LttP) but it hints the Deku Tree has his own plan to solve the sea problem.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-13 06:12pm

anarchistbunny wrote:The Rito are puzzling, they have beaks, kinda, but they can't grow wings. Wait a minute, if I remember correctly, we've only seen Zora in fresh water, so when the seas flood hyrule, they lack a fresh water source, so they go to the nearest mountain, Death Mountain(I think Death Mountain == Dragon Roost Mountain). They could then evolve into a bird like spieces(maybe with or without the aid of the gods or perhaps Jabu Jabu/Jaban), or may due to the exposer of the dragon scales that allow them to grow wings aided in their change, and when the waters receed, they return to the rivers, the effects of the scales eventually wear off over a generation or two, and they become amphibians again.

We've only seen Hyrulian Zoras in fresh water only because there is no salt water in Hyrule. However, assuming that the anatomy of the Terminian Zoras is the same as the Hyrulian Zoras (which should be the case), salt water isn't be a problem for Zoras. After all, the Terminian Zoras live in the Great Bay, and a bay is defined as "a body of water partially enclosed by land but with a wide mouth, affording access to the sea."

The Gorons might not have been able/willing to flee to the mountains, and only a few survived.

I don't think so. Historically, Gorons have been mountainous folk, due to their diet. In fact, the Hyrulian Gorons lived on Death Mountain for the volcanic rocks, which they regard as gourmet food. There's little reason to believe that all of the Gorons would have left the mountains for the plains.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-04-13 08:02pm

Darth Yoshi wrote: We've only seen Hyrulian Zoras in fresh water only because there is no salt water in Hyrule. However, assuming that the anatomy of the Terminian Zoras is the same as the Hyrulian Zoras (which should be the case), salt water isn't be a problem for Zoras. After all, the Terminian Zoras live in the Great Bay, and a bay is defined as "a body of water partially enclosed by land but with a wide mouth, affording access to the sea."

Firstly, I'm not entirely sure wiether or not Oracles is in the Zelda timeline, it was developed mostly by Capcon, but I'll count it as it is. Isn't a bay an estuary, where sea water and fresh water mix, could be enough for them to survive, seeing how Terminia has a lack of large body of water.

I don't think so. Historically, Gorons have been mountainous folk, due to their diet. In fact, the Hyrulian Gorons lived on Death Mountain for the volcanic rocks, which they regard as gourmet food. There's little reason to believe that all of the Gorons would have left the mountains for the plains.

Only the tops of the mountains remained, there city is far below that. I didn't mean they went down to drown, they just refuse to leave their city.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-13 08:18pm

Oracles? I'm referring to Majora's Mask, which was by EAD. And my dictionary says that a bay is just the water version of a peninsula, being surrounded most by land an wide opening to the sea.

Only the tops of the mountains remained, there city is far below that. I didn't mean they went down to drown, they just refuse to leave their city.

Alright. Conceeded.

But there's still the problem of LttP being 3 or 4 generations after the Imprisoning War, and Wind Waker taking place hundreds of years after Hyrule was sealed away.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-04-13 09:38pm

On OoT being 3 or 4 generations ago.

LttP wrote: I see you have acquired the Pendant of Courage. I will tell
you about the legend behind it. Three or four generations ago,
an order of knights protected the royalty of the Hylia.
These Knights Of Hyrule were also guardians of the Pendant
Of Courage. Unfortunately, most of them were destroyed in the great
war against evil that took place when the seven wise men
created their seal. Among the descendants of the Knights Of
Hyrule a hero must appear.

That seems to contridict what happens in OoT. Their was a battle, but Ganon wasn't sealed until 17 years after that.

fixed your quote - Kev

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-14 05:28pm

Seven years. But who said the war ended with the fall of Hyrule Castle? Zelda was still on the loose, and Ganondorf still had to enter the Sacred Realm. Plus, the kid with the Master Sword still needed to be eliminated.

And don't forget that Zelda returns Link to his youth and tells him to close the Door of Time after Ganon is sealed away. After he does that, he goes to see Zelda again with the Triforce of Courage in his hand. Which means at that point Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power. But with the Master Sword back in the pedestal, there's no way for Ganondorf to return to Hyrule, effectively trapping him in the Dark World.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-04-14 07:24pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:Seven years.

Links mother fled from the war while carrying him. Unless the war waged on for 10 more years after that, and abruptly ended, and erased all signs of, right before link went out of the Koroki forest, it was a good decade between the two.

But who said the war ended with the fall of Hyrule Castle? Zelda was still on the loose, and Ganondorf still had to enter the Sacred Realm. Plus, the kid with the Master Sword still needed to be eliminated.

2 people missing and almost no causualties except for the guards of the castle hardly constitues a war.

And don't forget that Zelda returns Link to his youth and tells him to close the Door of Time after Ganon is sealed away. After he does that, he goes to see Zelda again with the Triforce of Courage in his hand. Which means at that point Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power. But with the Master Sword back in the pedestal, there's no way for Ganondorf to return to Hyrule, effectively trapping him in the Dark World.

The Master Sword is just a seal on his powers, as stated in WW. And he appeared again after OoT with out the hero to come and remove the master sword.

As shown, the sage's telling of the legend is flawed, and it's time frame could be as well.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-14 08:26pm

I read it as the King managed to secure a peace some time before Link left for Hyrule Castle, which gives Ganondorf a cover story for heading over there, as well. After all, what better time to pledge your allegiance than after the fighting's stopped?

The Master Sword wasn't referred to a seal on Ganon's powers in OoT or LttP, just the weapon that can penetrate his defenses. In fact, the Master Sword in Ocarina of Time is a seal on the Sacred Realm and on the ability to move through time. Makes sense since evil ones may never touch the blade, so no evil person can ever pull out the sword to gain entrance to the Sacred Realm. And in LttP, Ganon doesn't regain his power after you retrieve the Master Sword, which means the Master Sword isn't a seal on his power. In fact, it's stupid to have one member of the only two-weapon combo that can defeat Ganon also be the seal on his powers, because the instant you gain the ability to defeat him, he regains all of his powers, giving him a good chance of kicking your ass when you show up to face him.

As for Ganon's reappearing, he was only sealed from the Light World. In LttP he was still trapped in the Dark World, but at the end of LttP the Dark World is destroyed, meaning that Ganon can only appear in the Light World from now on.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-04-14 10:13pm

I Wind Waker it Ganon says the Master Sword acts as a seal on his powers. Perhaps in order to get to Hyrule he had to leave behind some of his powers, and when the sword was pulled it allowed him to recover those.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-15 01:00am

Even if you're right, that still doesn't explain how Ganondorf was forced back into the Dark World, how he even escaped in the first place, or why he couldn't just bust out of the Dark World again without resorting to Agahnim.

BlackWarMewtwo · Post by **BlackWarMewtwo** » 2003-04-15 05:52pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:Something I wasn't clear on...was Hyrule split into a bunch of islands, or was there a mainland, or did it not take place in Hyrule at all?
Time line is screwy because this one is the alternate OoT timeline(aka Adult Link's time...when Ganon pummeled the planet)

But when you go in to Hyrule Castle to get the Mastersword, in the chamber where you get it, you see all six sages in stained glass window format, sugesting that the sages at least did their job.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-04-25 12:34am

God damn. You kids can create the most convoluted debates. On a video game! Although this just happens to be a line on the GREATEST games of ALL TIME. Yes, that's right, after many, many, many hours, I finally beat Wind Waker. I took detours, ran around, barely used my strategy guide. This is one of the most INCREDIABLE games EVER. The wind waker was a great touch. Far better than the ocharina. That always sort of got to me. Ocharina of Time for a title. bleh. I didn't get to play Lttp until long after I played through OoT. Truthfully, while OoT is an astonishing game, it really seems like a half hash of LttP. Don't get me wrong, it's great. You go back and forth between the two timelines. That's the one thing Wind Waker is missing, but then again, playing through it more than once won't be much of a chore, and will actually be enjoyable. Still, the expansiveness of the seas was great. Yeah, Hyrule field just never seemed large enough. Even Termina field wasn't big enough. I mean come on. The Legend of Zelda, and Zelda II the Adventures of Link had a HUGE world. Either way. Back to WW.

The advancements, the looks, the controls, this was more than top notch. This just raised the bar way to high for a lot of games to contend with. Yes, the looks. fuck you haters. The look was far better than any other game. Zelda has always had that fun cartoony feel, this just reinforced it, and really allowed you to get drawn in. The story was magnificant. The ending was more than anything I've ever seen. That final, STAB into his forhead. Ganon just stands there. It dawned on me, as has been mentioned that removing it would allow Ganon to regain his powers, since the sword would be the seal. Then again. Getting a FUCKING sword stabbed straight down your head, can't be any good. Even if it is pulled out, I want to believe that was the end to Ganon. It just doesn't end any better than that.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-25 12:47am

Cal Wright wrote:God damn. You kids can create the most convoluted debates. On a video game! Although this just happens to be a line on the GREATEST games of ALL TIME. Yes, that's right, after many, many, many hours, I finally beat Wind Waker. I took detours, ran around, barely used my strategy guide. This is one of the most INCREDIABLE games EVER. The wind waker was a great touch. Far better than the ocharina. That always sort of got to me. Ocharina of Time for a title. bleh. I didn't get to play Lttp until long after I played through OoT. Truthfully, while OoT is an astonishing game, it really seems like a half hash of LttP. Don't get me wrong, it's great. You go back and forth between the two timelines. That's the one thing Wind Waker is missing, but then again, playing through it more than once won't be much of a chore, and will actually be enjoyable. Still, the expansiveness of the seas was great. Yeah, Hyrule field just never seemed large enough. Even Termina field wasn't big enough. I mean come on. The Legend of Zelda, and Zelda II the Adventures of Link had a HUGE world. Either way. Back to WW.

About time you beat the game.

And if you people can debate about how badly the Federation would lose to the Empire, then why can't we debate about Wind Waker's place in the timeline?

The advancements, the looks, the controls, this was more than top notch. This just raised the bar way to high for a lot of games to contend with. Yes, the looks. fuck you haters. The look was far better than any other game. Zelda has always had that fun cartoony feel, this just reinforced it, and really allowed you to get drawn in. The story was magnificant. The ending was more than anything I've ever seen. That final, STAB into his forhead. Ganon just stands there. It dawned on me, as has been mentioned that removing it would allow Ganon to regain his powers, since the sword would be the seal. Then again. Getting a FUCKING sword stabbed straight down your head, can't be any good. Even if it is pulled out, I want to believe that was the end to Ganon. It just doesn't end any better than that.

I agree, the graphic style was very well done. I doubt that Ganon will come back after this (timeline-wise). There's no Hyrule anymore, and besides, how will anyone retrieve the Master Sword? It's stuck in a rock on the bottom of the sea.

aphexmonster · Post by **aphexmonster** » 2003-04-25 12:56am

All that tedious sailing =/

and fuck strategy guides.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-25 01:04am

Think of it like this. It's more time to enjoy the music and notice just how much detail goes into the Great Sea. For example, the clouds shift depending on what direction the wind is blowing. Also, you can see the Tower of the Gods from pretty far away.

aphexmonster · Post by **aphexmonster** » 2003-04-25 02:20am

Whats the game that links with the GBA ?

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-04-26 12:44am

That's the Tingle Tuner. Don't ask. I didn't use it hardly at all.

Yeah, I took my time, and I had to stop for over a week. Sucks I know, but I like taking a long time in playing games, especially like that. I still didn't do everything. I didn't explore every square, or island. There were other things I didn't get.

No, I will not debate a timeline. It's far too fucked up for me. I can see The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II The Adventures of Link going together.

A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening going togther. I think they were supposed to.

Then Ocharina of Time, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker going together. There's almost no real way other than that to get them going. It's far too fucked up. They probably didn't even plan on making them fit until people started asking. Don't worry Miyamoto, it's okay to tell half wits to fuck off every now and then. You did when it came to graphics, and proved how much of a shitstain they truely are. Look, the games are fucking awesome. I'll gladly debate anything on it. I need refreshers because I've only played LttP once, and it's been some years since I played Zelda II. Either way, Wind Waker rocks!

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-04-26 09:49am

Accually Cal, Link's Awakening doesn't fit in anywhere, accually it fits in anywhere, there is not spesific position for him, most people think it's LttP cause it came after it.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-04-27 12:52pm

Well, it's a good place for it. Considering and all. Although, I guess it could fall after The Legend of Zelda as well. It would be between that and Zelda II. Hmm, interesting....

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-27 01:19pm

I like to put Link's Awakening after Wind Waker, since they both take place on the seas and Link goes exploring the ocean at the end of Wind Waker.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-04-28 07:59pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:I like to put Link's Awakening after Wind Waker, since they both take place on the seas and Link goes exploring the ocean at the end of Wind Waker.

I want to bitch slap your av for not thinking of that first.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-04-28 08:16pm

Leave her alone. Pick on the Black Mage or something. And isn't it supposed to be you slap yourself?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I beat Wind Waker! Soul crushing spoilers