Stormtroopers vs THESE Federation troops

[Howedar]

All right, I knew that.


At any rate, if you actually read what I posted, I said that the games did not suggest that Rodians were more durable to blasters. In other words, the games are not a possible source of such an argument, regardless of their official standing.

[Darth Negation]

Didn't this thread start off by saying "how about THESE troops vs stormies?" Alyeska said that it wasn't canon, just wanted to know how they would fare against stormtroopers, IF they existed.

[Howedar]

Yes, it did. Some important members here have selective amnesia and poor reading comprehension.

[Slartibartfast]

Not me. All I said was that can't have both ways: if you're debating THESE troops, which aren't canon, they must be treated like a stand-alone thing, and not "scaled" to some weird calculation of how strong their weapons should be because the game mechanics can't be trusted.

THESE troops only exist in the game mechanics, therefore those are the only usable stats.

[Alyeska]

Not me. All I said was that can't have both ways: if you're debating THESE troops, which aren't canon, they must be treated like a stand-alone thing, and not "scaled" to some weird calculation of how strong their weapons should be because the game mechanics can't be trusted.

THESE troops only exist in the game mechanics, therefore those are the only usable stats.

Oh give me a break. If you treat it solely like that then that means only Voyager and the Enterprise exist because there was never anything else seen. I am the one who created this thread and I state how it works, got it? You use these troops as the basis but you backstop information with the show itself to gauge firepower and numbers.

[Kurgan]

Something that scrambled transporters would be a major disadvantage to them (considering most of their weapons are in the buffer), like a Jawa Ionisation gun...

They're still light years better than anything in canon Trek.

All of their weapons aren't phaser based, they also have plasma and explosive based weapons (at least they did in the original Elite Force).

As to Dark Troopers, there's a problem... the Dark Troopers in Rebellion (which I haven't played) apparently are living beings who have rudimentary control over the Dark Side of the Force, yet in Dark Forces (their origin) they are in fact droids, lacking any sort of Force ability.

Where it gets confusing is that the Dark Trooper (Phase 1) is like a terminator endoskeleton with blade arm and blaster shield. The phase 2 is a powered suit (complete with jetpack and a hand held plasma cannon/rocket launcher) with a droid inside. For Phase 3 they only made one suit, but it had a human inside.

I suppose you could put Dark Jedi inside the Phase 2 suites, which is what they must have done for Rebellion.

There was some recent comic where a previously dormant Dark Trooper (phase 2) came out and attacked that biker guy from Shadows of the Empire (along with an old battle droid).

[Kurgan]

One way to see would be to ask what stuff they fought in the games...

It's been awhile, since I played EF, but IIRC, the guys you fought were mostly unarmored... ie: people in pajamas, klingons in their standard armor, borg drones with their shields (that are not immune to explosive and impact damage), and "tough" aliens like Species 8472.

Stormy armor might be good enough to withstand phaser hits, but I think the plasma weapons and grenade launchers could take them. As to tactics, it would depend, since you're the player, and you do what you can.

The only problem is in the games they didn't wear their helmets very much (only when they were in vaccum or right before entering an area with gas). So they still might be caught off guard by NCB attacks.

TD's would be a problem, but then again, they have similar armaments...

[NecronLord]

The dark trooper inital tests had droid brains only. They were intended to use clones with limited force abilities (see AotC novellisation) inside, but have the droid brain give targeting data and other assistance to the F user, and take over if he is killed.

AFAIK anyway.

[Slartibartfast]

Not me. All I said was that can't have both ways: if you're debating THESE troops, which aren't canon, they must be treated like a stand-alone thing, and not "scaled" to some weird calculation of how strong their weapons should be because the game mechanics can't be trusted.

THESE troops only exist in the game mechanics, therefore those are the only usable stats.

Oh give me a break.

>Give break
<given>

[Darth Negation]

>Give break
<given>

:CRACK:

[Striderteen]

Well it worked reliably the whole time it was used. Such advanced technology makes life easier on the soldier because they can carry more weapons, equipment, and have greater endurance.

I see you have nothing constructive to add. I point out that it worked flawlessly. You can't actualy counter that so you just try and insult the statement itself.

Merr-Sonn DEMP Gun

Sometimes it is desirable to neutralize droids without permanently damaging or destroying them. These constructs are vulnerable to the effects of an electromagnetic pulse, a burst of energy which destroys critical electromagnetic pathways in mechanical and computerized de vices.

Internal components are hardened against EMP effects as a matter of course in manufacturing, to enable devices to withstand the rigors of space and unpredictable alien environments. However, a modified-frequency pulse effect developed by Merr-Sonn weapons is capable of penetrating shielding and hardened circuitry. The DEMP gun incorporates this technology. It is a weapon capable of "stunning" a droid as an alternative to damaging it.

The DEMP gun is available in a handgun or carbine configuration with adjustable power settings. Setting one does one-half the normal stun damage of a blaster pistol. Setting two inflicts the stun damage indicated in the weapon specifications. Setting three inflicts physical damage to internal components. A droid damaged with setting three cannot be repaired, but must have its components completely replaced.

Bye Bye Hazard Team

The shot would have to get through the shield in the first place. Such a weapon would be just as equaly effective against SW soldiers because it renders all their weapons useless and would cause most all the equipment a stormtrooper hsa to become useless as well.

Only if you shoot them with it; it's a directed blast, not a wide-area blast like an EMP grenade would produce.

[Striderteen]

Something that scrambled transporters would be a major disadvantage to them (considering most of their weapons are in the buffer), like a Jawa Ionisation gun...

They're still light years better than anything in canon Trek.

All of their weapons aren't phaser based, they also have plasma and explosive based weapons (at least they did in the original Elite Force).

As to Dark Troopers, there's a problem... the Dark Troopers in Rebellion (which I haven't played) apparently are living beings who have rudimentary control over the Dark Side of the Force, yet in Dark Forces (their origin) they are in fact droids, lacking any sort of Force ability.

Where it gets confusing is that the Dark Trooper (Phase 1) is like a terminator endoskeleton with blade arm and blaster shield. The phase 2 is a powered suit (complete with jetpack and a hand held plasma cannon/rocket launcher) with a droid inside. For Phase 3 they only made one suit, but it had a human inside.

I suppose you could put Dark Jedi inside the Phase 2 suites, which is what they must have done for Rebellion.

There was some recent comic where a previously dormant Dark Trooper (phase 2) came out and attacked that biker guy from Shadows of the Empire (along with an old battle droid).

The Dark Trooper Corps consists of highly trained Force-sensitive commandos using the Phase 3 Darktrooper armor, the same kind General Mohc was wearing in the final showdown mission.

[Kurgan]

When was this ever implemented outside of 'Rebellion'?

I had the notion (from Dark Forces, where it was introduced) that Kyle Katarn stopped the Darktrooper project, and destroyed all of them (except maybe one or two "lost" models, like the one the SOTE biker guy faced).

[Lord of the Farce]

When was this ever implemented outside of 'Rebellion'?

I had the notion (from Dark Forces, where it was introduced) that Kyle Katarn stopped the Darktrooper project, and destroyed all of them (except maybe one or two "lost" models, like the one the SOTE biker guy faced).

Apparently, although the Arc Hammer was destroyed (costing the Empire untold billions of credits) thanks to Kyle Katarn's effort, none of the actual reseach and plans behind the Dark Trooper Project was lost.

[Lord Pounder]

Dark Troopers where also the Imperials "Special" unit in SW: Galactic Battlegrounds.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Apparently, although the Arc Hammer was destroyed (costing the Empire untold billions of credits) thanks to Kyle Katarn's effort, none of the actual reseach and plans behind the Dark Trooper Project was lost.

The only difference was that it did not go into mass-production.

Imagine if every Stormtrooper who was in a squad support duty would have gotten a Dark Trooper Phase III suit instead of a T-21 repeater.

[Kurgan]

Imagine if every Stormtrooper who was in a squad support duty would have gotten a Dark Trooper Phase III suit instead of a T-21 repeater.

Well, in terms of cost, that's a huge and unnecessary expenditure....

but yeah, from a fanboy wanking perspective, that is really cool. ; )

You'll also have to consider the years of training for "Dark Side adepts" and the need for force sensitives to train them. Unless of course we're talking "infused" acolytes (Valley of the Jedi, Kyp Durron, Emperor's Hands), which seemed to be rare in the Empire.

[Kurgan]

Relating to that, there's something I hadn't quite understood about Palpy's infused acolytes....

Did he always take people who were already force sensitive and "boost" their powers (like Kyp Durron was with Exar Kun's spirit, and Mara Jade was), or were they non Force sensitives who were just "given" a hunk of power (was it independent of Palpy's control?) like the guys in Dark Empire were (or maybe I'm mistaken.. they acted like zombies at one point and were easily dispatched by Skywalker).

[Kurgan]

Heh, then again... even WITH infusion of the force, that doesn't necessarily teach them HOW to use it... training would still be involved.Im

Then again, weren't the Imperial Guardsmen considered the pinnacle of force+melee+training and they were only trained for 1 year? (beyond standard stormie training of course)

I call upon bigger powers in geekdom to answer these questions...

[Striderteen]

Imagine if every Stormtrooper who was in a squad support duty would have gotten a Dark Trooper Phase III suit instead of a T-21 repeater.

Well, in terms of cost, that's a huge and unnecessary expenditure....

but yeah, from a fanboy wanking perspective, that is really cool. ; )

You'll also have to consider the years of training for "Dark Side adepts" and the need for force sensitives to train them. Unless of course we're talking "infused" acolytes (Valley of the Jedi, Kyp Durron, Emperor's Hands), which seemed to be rare in the Empire.

You don't need Force training to use the Dark Trooper suits; the Empire only reserved them for Force-sensitive ubercommandos because of their extremely high cost. Had the program gone into full production, they would have been able to equip Stormtroopers with the suits as well, and possibly even regular Imperial Army troops as well.

Force or no, you're talking a heavily armored power armor suit with a *very* nasty weapons suite.

[Kurgan]

Assuming of course that there aren't enough "Kyle Katarn" -esque commandos to destroy/disable them all. ; )

Then again, Kyle did have a slight twinkle of force sensitivity even back then...

[Darth Negation]

I'm sorry, when was this "Dark Forces" thing and Kyle?

[Lord Pounder]

Dark Forces 1 IIRC was set just before the start of ANH. In the 1st Level you have to invade a Imperial Facility and steal the Death Star Plans. I might be wring it's been a long time since i played it.

[Illuminatus Primus]

You'll also have to consider the years of training for "Dark Side adepts" and the need for force sensitives to train them. Unless of course we're talking "infused" acolytes (Valley of the Jedi, Kyp Durron, Emperor's Hands), which seemed to be rare in the Empire.

The original plan for mass-produced Phase III suits for heavy support work among avg. stormies called for normal stormies to wear them.

It was as an afterthought that the spare Phase III suits were given to some of the Force-Sensitive stormtroopers to form a new Special Operations group.

[Kurgan]

Kyle Katarn is the main character in "Dark Forces" the first person shooter from LucasArts, who originally stole the Death Star plans (that's level 1).

His character is in the official SW continuity by virtue of the books Soldier for the Empire, Rebel Agent, and Jedi Knight.

--Game series--
Dark Forces
Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith (companion missions)
Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy