[STGOD] United Planets

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-04-27 08:03pm

As will the Kelia Alliance.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-04-27 08:04pm

Straha wrote:
Fair enough, scratch the trade restrictions idea.

How about making it illegal to kill Citizens where they are not harming you, or your nation?

The Minmatar will vote against any proposed bills until either the UP is properly established.

Voting on important issues during the formation of the UP ensures that powers joining after the bill has been passed do not get their say.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-04-27 08:14pm

Spyder wrote:
Straha wrote:
Fair enough, scratch the trade restrictions idea.

How about making it illegal to kill Citizens where they are not harming you, or your nation?
The Minmatar will vote against any proposed bills until either the UP is properly established.

Voting on important issues during the formation of the UP ensures that powers joining after the bill has been passed do not get their say.

Right then, ::whispers something to an aide, 20 minutes later he walks into a newly bought buisness building in Downtown Monaco, which has spray-painted over it "Tempory Headquarters of the United Planets"::

As my first show of commitment, let me give this building, with an auditorium, offices, and area for temporary lodgings and refreshments to the United Planets.

That being said lets get this started, all those who declare themselves joined in the next two days (until, say, tuesday 12 noon EST) get to set up the joining protocals, all other nations will not have a say in the joining requirements.

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-04-27 08:18pm

The Kelia Alliance wishes to join the UP.

*Diplomat secretly scrawls 'Jacx wuz here' underneath the spray-painted sign*.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-27 08:21pm

The PSR applauds the decision to form an organization of United Planets. The Republic is willing to cede a significant tract of land from its Martian territories to be designated as an international zone. Construction of a permanent UP building awaits the decision of this international council.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-04-27 08:21pm

Well, I suppose we'll be sending a genemodded diplomat down into your gravitywell! The Great Cluster has reached an agreement, and all four of the Free Floater Republics will be represented by a single man in the UP. Newly appointed Boundman Ambassador DeJericho of Zararthrustra will be arriving at Monaco as soon as his reconstruction is complete.

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-04-27 08:25pm

The Kelia Alliance remarks on the pain such an ambassador must have gone through, as well as applauding his sacrifice for the UP.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-04-27 08:26pm

Dont worry about it- Floater narcotics are EXCELLENT. Boundman DeJericho certainly won't feel any pain

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-27 08:28pm

Thirdfain wrote:We will need some sort of legislation about ANY WMD.

Its all a matter of scale, and our Empires are not all within the same league of size.

The Kokand Empire will send a representative to where ever the more interested Star nations opt to form such a league of folly.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-04-27 08:33pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:We will need some sort of legislation about ANY WMD.
Its all a matter of scale, and our Empires are not all within the same league of size.

The Kokand Empire will send a representative to where ever the more interested Star nations opt to form such a league of folly.

I don't see why they shouldn't be. No one's done anything yet to warrent having anymore power then another.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-27 08:36pm

Spyder wrote:
I don't see why they shouldn't be. No one's done anything yet to warrent having anymore power then another.

I am talking about controlled territory and populations and what level of destruction one nation would consider being "mass", it’s the same thing that makes 50 deaths for Israel far more significant to the country then 50 in the USA.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-04-27 09:09pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:We will need some sort of legislation about ANY WMD.
Its all a matter of scale, and our Empires are not all within the same league of size.

The Kokand Empire will send a representative to where ever the more interested Star nations opt to form such a league of folly.

I don't want to ban WMD, I just want to ban the use of weapons against civillians when they are not directly harming the attacking nation.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-27 09:22pm

The Emperor Romulus Augustus considers any trade embargoes against the Empire to be a valid Casus Belli against partiest involved.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-27 09:27pm

Straha wrote: Fair enough, scratch the trade restrictions idea.

How about making it illegal to kill Citizens where they are not harming you, or your nation?

It is the position of The Kokand Empire that almost all civilians within a modern developed star nation directly support there nations militaries, so could be considered to be harming the Empire if there military is engaged in operations against it. The Kokand Empire has no intention of conducting actions which are solely meant to injure or kill civilians, but quite simply if they get in the way we wont hesitate.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-04-27 09:34pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Straha wrote: Fair enough, scratch the trade restrictions idea.

How about making it illegal to kill Citizens where they are not harming you, or your nation?
It is the position of The Kokand Empire that almost all civilians within a modern developed star nation directly support there nations militaries, so could be considered to be harming the Empire if there military is engaged in operations against it. The Kokand Empire has no intention of conducting actions which are solely meant to injure or kill civilians, but quite simply if they get in the way we wont hesitate.

I agree there, if you bomb a tank factory with workers in it, killing them that's too bad. But if you bomb the families of the workers, and ignore the families, that's wrong.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-27 09:37pm

The Asgard Star Empire will not rule out the use of WMD. It is our policy to use them only in retaliation or in the case of utmost military necessity. We will attempt to minimize civilians casualties except for a retaliatory strike.

We reserve the right to issue letters of marque in time of war or other declared hosility. We will treat any privateer crew as POW and expect the same. Violation of this will result in retaliation.

Pirates and drug smugglers will be subject to immediate destruction at the senior officer presents discretion. Any nation involved in direct support shall be considered as having committed an act of war. Indirect support will be judged on case by case basis.

We propose that armed merchants be indentified as such. Any disguised armed merchant will be considered a pirate and any further merchant ships may be destroyed on sight.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-04-27 09:38pm

I agree there, if you bomb a tank factory with workers in it, killing them that's too bad. But if you bomb the families of the workers, and ignore the families, that's wrong.

Agreed. Civilian casualties are an unfortunate part of war, but war is often necessary to avert greater bloodshed and loss of freedom down the line. In the event of Floater attacks on enemy orbitals or planets, Floater warships will attack selectively, but with regard only for victory.

Wanton destruction of civilian population, on the other hand, through the use of bio/chem weaponry or general bombardment, is anathema to the Floater cause, and indeed to human decendy. That is what this treaty must be engineered to avoid.

Blast a shipyard? Fine! BDZ an inhabited world? NOT FINE!

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-04-27 09:39pm

Stormbringer wrote:The Asgard Star Empire will not rule out the use of WMD. It is our policy to use them only in retaliation or in the case of utmost military necessity. We will attempt to minimize civilians casualties except for a retaliatory strike.

We reserve the right to issue letters of marque in time of war or other declared hosility. We will treat any privateer crew as POW and expect the same. Violation of this will result in retaliation.

Pirates and drug smugglers will be subject to immediate destruction at the senior officer presents discretion. Any nation involved in direct support shall be considered as having committed an act of war. Indirect support will be judged on case by case basis.

We propose that armed merchants be indentified as such. Any disguised armed merchant will be considered a pirate and any further merchant ships may be destroyed on sight.

Let's put this all up to vote when the UP offically convenes (I believe I said 12 noon thuesday EST) in the mean time, post wether you are joining or not, and your opinion on the bill bannign either the murder of citizens/ban of WMDs.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-04-27 09:39pm

We categorically refuse the absolute ban on WMDs.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-04-27 09:40pm

Stormbringer wrote:We categorically refuse the absolute ban on WMDs.

As do I, that's why I only proposed a ban of using WMDs against civillian except in extreme situations. But again we will discuss this when time comes neigh.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-27 09:41pm

Straha wrote: I agree there, if you bomb a tank factory with workers in it, killing them that's too bad. But if you bomb the families of the workers, and ignore the families, that's wrong.

However if the homes have also troops hiding in the basement the building will be considered fair game. We have lost far to many of our warriors fighting with more restrictive rules.

As do I, that's why I only proposed a ban of using WMDs against civillian except in extreme situations. But again we will discuss this when time comes neigh.

Partial bans are fairly meaningless, especially if situation dependent.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-04-27 09:43pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Straha wrote: I agree there, if you bomb a tank factory with workers in it, killing them that's too bad. But if you bomb the families of the workers, and ignore the families, that's wrong.
However if the homes have also troops hiding in the basement the building will be considered fair game. We have lost far to many of our warriors fighting with more restrictive rules.

I agree with you, see then you are bombing the soldiers not the civillians. The point was that it was wrong if you were just bombing the civillians with not a military building, or member in the targeted blast radius.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-27 09:45pm

The New Roman Empire condemns the unrestricted use of WMDs. It proposes that a coalition be formed, seperate of the United Planets. It's purpose will be simple: complete obliteration of any civilization that makes use of WMDs.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-27 09:47pm

Straha wrote:
I agree with you, see then you are bombing the soldiers not the civillians. The point was that it was wrong if you were just bombing the civillians with not a military building, or member in the targeted blast radius.

But some would argue that it is wrong to bomb the structure, and that you must send your troops to enter that basement and shoot the troops inside directly. It is that sort of foolishness which The Kokand Empire fears could become accepted interstellar law.

We simply expect that all star nations will have reasonable and competent commanders, who would see no point to wasting ammunition in unjustified slaughter. Morality need never enter the equation in many cases.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-27 09:49pm

HemlockGrey wrote:The New Roman Empire condemns the unrestricted use of WMDs. It proposes that a coalition be formed, seperate of the United Planets. It's purpose will be simple: complete obliteration of any civilization that makes use of WMDs.

I dare you to define weapon of mass destruction. Bombs which could flatten a small city wont even scratch starships. But what happens if a starship weapon misses and hits a planet?