Mon Cal SSD?

RTN · Post by **RTN** » 2003-04-27 08:40pm

Home One is fairly impressive, but its outclassed by a good deal of imperial super-tech relics (SSD's, World Devastators, Torpedo Spheres, ect). Should the New Republic have constructed a Mon Cal SSD equivalent and would it have helped them fend off the Yuuzhan Vong?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-04-27 08:44pm

I think they tried to in the starship building program that was started after the Reborn Emperor was killed finally.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-04-27 08:45pm

RTN wrote:Home One is fairly impressive, but its outclassed by a good deal of imperial super-tech relics (SSD's, World Devastators, Torpedo Spheres, ect). Should the New Republic have constructed a Mon Cal SSD equivalent and would it have helped them fend off the Yuuzhan Vong?

Seeing as how they already had a few SSDs, and were still building SSDs, iirc, why would they need to make a Mon Cal equivalent?

The few leftover SSDs they had they saw as enough, seeing as though there wasn't much of a place for them except as fleet command ships, in a peacetime New Republic. Plus, the NR doesn't have the unlimited resources in its command like the Empire, that is, assuming it runs on a free trade system, and the Empire was authoritarian.

RTN · Post by **RTN** » 2003-04-27 09:03pm

I was just wondering, because Mon Cals typically seem to be able to overcome Imperial warships of comparable sizes so it may still be practical to have a Mon Call SSD.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-27 09:06pm

The New Republic captured two or three Executors, and by the time of the NJO had constructed some very large battlecruisers and battleships which might be similar in size to an Executor.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-04-27 09:19pm

Its not official or cannon, but SSD type NR ships are around.

http://www.btinternet.com/~jmdare/mc104.jpg

This one is interesting.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-04-27 09:25pm

Knife wrote:Its not official or cannon, but SSD type NR ships are around.

http://www.btinternet.com/~jmdare/mc104.jpg

This one is interesting.

Impressive, but can it do fondeau.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-04-27 09:28pm

RTN wrote:I was just wondering, because Mon Cals typically seem to be able to overcome Imperial warships of comparable sizes so it may still be practical to have a Mon Call SSD.

A MC-80 vs an ISD is dead. Heck, they are based on starliners. The Mon Cals are decent fighting ships, and can handle most, but, iirc, the Imperial equipment was superior..

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-04-27 09:31pm

Then how come we see SDs losing to them in the books.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-04-27 09:32pm

Nathan F wrote:
RTN wrote:I was just wondering, because Mon Cals typically seem to be able to overcome Imperial warships of comparable sizes so it may still be practical to have a Mon Call SSD.
A MC-80 vs an ISD is dead. Heck, they are based on starliners. The Mon Cals are decent fighting ships, and can handle most, but, iirc, the Imperial equipment was superior..

AFAIK, the MonCal ships are durrable due to the Mon Cal's over engineering. Every system is backed up and those back ups are backed up. She will be blowing up and still firing her guns. Though, SW ships seem to go this direction anyway, the MC 80's apperantly are more durable than the Imp ones even though the Imp ships WAY out gun the Mon Cals.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-04-27 09:45pm

Nathan F wrote:A MC-80 vs an ISD is dead.

MC-80s have heavily reinforced and backed-up shields, and thus have more time to pound on an ISD, even though they have fewer guns.

From the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels:

They are durable ships that are as fast and almost as tough as the larger Imperial Star Destroyers. It must be noted that even Imperial Navy commanders have reluctantly admitted that the Mon Cals are superior space combatants.

The words "amost as tough" propably mean that MCs have less hitting power than ISDs, however, their exceptional shielding (see below) give them an edge.

Heck, they are based on starliners.

"Based on" != "Same as"

The Mon Cals are decent fighting ships, and can handle most, but, iirc, the Imperial equipment was superior..

Not in shielding.

Also from the ESGTV&V:

Mon Cal ships have unusually powerful shields - extra shield redundancies allow Mon Cals to quickly replace damaged shield arrays even while in combat, and this made it much more difficult for Imperial guns to wear down a Star Cruiser's defenses.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-27 09:52pm

The two ships seem comparable. While the ISD has more guns and fighters, the Mon Cal Cruiser has better shields.

A battle between the two would probably depend on the Captain.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-04-27 09:54pm

But the Mon Cal would have better fighter.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-04-27 10:22pm

A single MC80 (or another ship of comparable tonnage) is dead against an ISD, but it will likely inflict severe damage.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-27 10:28pm

phongn wrote:A single MC80 (or another ship of comparable tonnage) is dead against an ISD, but it will likely inflict severe damage.

Not neccesarily. While in a straight out slug-fest with TLs I'm pretty convinced an ISD would win, once you throw fighters into the mix an MC80 could give an ISD a run for its money.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-04-27 10:32pm

MC80 - Dead
MC80a - Dead but hurts
MC80B - ISD dead
MC90 - ISD dead

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-27 10:34pm

An MC80B is the Mon Remonda class, right?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-04-27 10:35pm

I don't think the MC80B (Mon Remonda) is really only 1.2 km.

I think its more likely a transposition of 2.1 km at least--remember this thing manages to outgun an Executor from certain angles.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-04-27 10:42pm

Mon Cals are very effective against ISDs because of their comparitive designs.

While an ISD has meters of heavy armor, a Mon Cal has triple the shielding, and as we saw in ROTJ that armor won't stop a HTL from killing them. From Saxton's analysis, a Mon Cal carries about 42 HTLs (Canon > Official), and unlike an ISD these are placed so that half it's armarment can be brought to bear on any approach angle (ref EGVV I believe). They are also faster.

An ISD may have more power overall, but in a close in melee like the Rebels began using after it's effectiveness at Endor, the fact that Mon Cals can avoid most of the HTL firing arcs, can dissapate shots at a faster rate, and concentrate more firepower at a given area means that an ISD is in for some serious hurt even if it does win.

The fact that a Mon Cal's fighters can carry torps that can knock out shields is just another benefit.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-27 10:44pm

Ahhh, so range also comes into play.

The faster a Mon Cal can close the distance, the less guns can be brought ot bear onto her by an ISD.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-04-27 10:51pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Ahhh, so range also comes into play.

The faster a Mon Cal can close the distance, the less guns can be brought ot bear onto her by an ISD.

That, and also just simple dodging. Your weapons can be 1E9999999 times more powerful. But it matters fuck all if the ship keeps moving so it's on your underside and you can't bring the weapon to bear.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-04-27 10:54pm

Ender and I have precisely the same theories about Endor.

I think at close ranges, the Mon Cals easily dodged the HTLs and their perhaps smaller but more numerous and flexible guns were able to outgun and outsurvive ISDs at that range.

RTN · Post by **RTN** » 2003-04-27 11:04pm

I should have posted a Mon Cal (vs) comparable Stardestroyer poll...

In addition to redundancies, Mon Cal super structure is more un-uniformly placed making the targeting of specific systems much more difficult.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-04-27 11:41pm

I stand corrected, hehe.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-04-27 11:50pm

The Viscount-class is probably near the Executor in scale.

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