Can Gensis effect a DS?
Moderator: Vympel
- Admiral Johnason
- Sith Devotee
- Posts: 2552
- Joined: 2003-01-11 05:06pm
- Location: The Rebel cruiser Defender
Can Gensis effect a DS?
A previous thread brought this up.
Could it reformat the Death Star if the sheilds were down?
Could it reformat the Death Star if the sheilds were down?
Liberals for Nixon in 3000: Nixon... with carisma and a shiny robot body.
never negoiate out of fear, but never fear to negoiate.
Captian America- Justice League
HAB submarine commander-
"We'll break you of your fear of water."
never negoiate out of fear, but never fear to negoiate.
Captian America- Justice League
HAB submarine commander-
"We'll break you of your fear of water."
IF the shields were down... well, it would fuck it up, but other then that I don't know. I think there would be too many heavy metals and two few other things to make a habitable planet. Further, we have zero idea what hypermatter would do to it (though odds are, nothing good)
Shields up though, not a damn thing. Based on the formula
S > (I-U)/U * 10^ 26 joules for the destruction of Alderaan, the particle shields alone can handle more then 4.5E31 joules.
Shields up though, not a damn thing. Based on the formula
S > (I-U)/U * 10^ 26 joules for the destruction of Alderaan, the particle shields alone can handle more then 4.5E31 joules.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
We know that the Genesis device can convert a gaseous nebula into a rock planet.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
- Darth Garden Gnome
- Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
- Posts: 6029
- Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
- Location: Some where near a mailbox
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
That is a net-negative energy process, and the raw materials are light elements. Since the transporter is the only known Treknology which seems to fit the requirements for the Genesis device and transporters are known not to work through heavy metals (which the DS surface armour is made of), it is not impossible to make a decent case for limited effects.Howedar wrote:We know that the Genesis device can convert a gaseous nebula into a rock planet.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
On the other hand, the Genesis device seems to incite a reaction that feeds upon itself. Perhaps the DS would simply take longer because the reaction was less efficient or something?
I really have no idea.
I really have no idea.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
- Sea Skimmer
- Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
- Posts: 37390
- Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
- Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
The device probably has a mass-handling limit, and may as Wong said have trouble with heavy metals. However I'd think it would at least take a chunk out of the station.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Certainly it wouldn't do anything good.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
- Lord Pounder
- Pretty Hate Machine
- Posts: 9695
- Joined: 2002-11-19 04:40pm
- Location: Belfast, unfortunately
- Contact:
The problem is that the Genesis reaction is unstable from the start. It's main compenent is proto-matter what ever the fuck that is, according tothe sources i've seen proto-matter is highly unstable and Starfleet destroyed all its stockpile.
Given what we've seen i'd say it was a similar reaction to the Suncrusher Torpedo and that the DS fully shielded can withstand a few hits of it, but after that the superstructure starts taking heavy damage. Bare in mind this is all guess work. Can one of the better minds here come up with a calculation of what the power output of the Genesis Torp was?
Given what we've seen i'd say it was a similar reaction to the Suncrusher Torpedo and that the DS fully shielded can withstand a few hits of it, but after that the superstructure starts taking heavy damage. Bare in mind this is all guess work. Can one of the better minds here come up with a calculation of what the power output of the Genesis Torp was?
RIP Yosemite Bear
Gone, Never Forgotten
Gone, Never Forgotten
Actualy Proto-Matter was again used in DS9 for a different terraforming project. This one turned a dead star (ball of rock) into a star again.Darth Pounder wrote:The problem is that the Genesis reaction is unstable from the start. It's main compenent is proto-matter what ever the fuck that is, according tothe sources i've seen proto-matter is highly unstable and Starfleet destroyed all its stockpile.
Given what we've seen i'd say it was a similar reaction to the Suncrusher Torpedo and that the DS fully shielded can withstand a few hits of it, but after that the superstructure starts taking heavy damage. Bare in mind this is all guess work. Can one of the better minds here come up with a calculation of what the power output of the Genesis Torp was?
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Proto-matter must be some kind of magical elemental transmutation process. To turn a rock into a star, you must convert the iron into hydrogen, which is obviously elemental transmutation. Presumably, some of the target iron is annihilated in order to provide the energy necessary to split all of these atoms, perhaps through some kind of chain reaction.Alyeska wrote:Actualy Proto-Matter was again used in DS9 for a different terraforming project. This one turned a dead star (ball of rock) into a star again.Darth Pounder wrote:The problem is that the Genesis reaction is unstable from the start. It's main compenent is proto-matter what ever the fuck that is, according tothe sources i've seen proto-matter is highly unstable and Starfleet destroyed all its stockpile.
Given what we've seen i'd say it was a similar reaction to the Suncrusher Torpedo and that the DS fully shielded can withstand a few hits of it, but after that the superstructure starts taking heavy damage. Bare in mind this is all guess work. Can one of the better minds here come up with a calculation of what the power output of the Genesis Torp was?
Not that any of this makes any sense from a real-science perspective, but as an in-universe explanation, it is consistent with this DS9 incident as well as the behaviour of the Genesis Device. Of course, since the transmutation effects of proto-matter appear to be unstable, one must wonder if the star remained that way, or rapidly burned itself out and spontaneously turned back into a hunk of iron.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
- Ruthless Imperial Tyrant
- Posts: 5755
- Joined: 2002-07-03 06:11pm
- Location: Canada
I am inclinded to think it probably lasted. Then again I can't say for sure. Its entirely reasonable to assume that the doctor who created this device knew of the Genesis device faliure was due to Proto-Matter. Its possible he used some other components to increase stability, but we will never know. The episode ends with the Doctor slamming his shuttle into the ball of rock to turn it into a star (he comitted suicide for a different reason, had to do with his wife).Darth Wong wrote:Proto-matter must be some kind of magical elemental transmutation process. To turn a rock into a star, you must convert the iron into hydrogen, which is obviously elemental transmutation. Presumably, some of the target iron is annihilated in order to provide the energy necessary to split all of these atoms, perhaps through some kind of chain reaction.Alyeska wrote:Actualy Proto-Matter was again used in DS9 for a different terraforming project. This one turned a dead star (ball of rock) into a star again.Darth Pounder wrote:The problem is that the Genesis reaction is unstable from the start. It's main compenent is proto-matter what ever the fuck that is, according tothe sources i've seen proto-matter is highly unstable and Starfleet destroyed all its stockpile.
Given what we've seen i'd say it was a similar reaction to the Suncrusher Torpedo and that the DS fully shielded can withstand a few hits of it, but after that the superstructure starts taking heavy damage. Bare in mind this is all guess work. Can one of the better minds here come up with a calculation of what the power output of the Genesis Torp was?
Not that any of this makes any sense from a real-science perspective, but as an in-universe explanation, it is consistent with this DS9 incident as well as the behaviour of the Genesis Device. Of course, since the transmutation effects of proto-matter appear to be unstable, one must wonder if the star remained that way, or rapidly burned itself out and spontaneously turned back into a hunk of iron.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
This entire premise is silly. Why would the Death Star's shields be down? Was the Genesis Device fired in a sneak attack, by a ship so cloaked that the Death Star couldn't detect it? Was the Genesis Device also cloaked and undetectable? Was the Genesis Wave somehow cloaked as well, since it seems that either the Genesis Device needs a flight time of 6 minutes to build up to detonation?
The Genesis Device was not designed to work against shielded targets. It's safe to say it wasn't designed to worked against armored targets as well.
The Genesis Device was not designed to work against shielded targets. It's safe to say it wasn't designed to worked against armored targets as well.
If it can turn a ball of rock into a planet, and this is creating a planet with 1G of gravity on the surface, then I think it would seriously fuck over the DS if not outright destroy it.Lord Poe wrote:This entire premise is silly. Why would the Death Star's shields be down? Was the Genesis Device fired in a sneak attack, by a ship so cloaked that the Death Star couldn't detect it? Was the Genesis Device also cloaked and undetectable? Was the Genesis Wave somehow cloaked as well, since it seems that either the Genesis Device needs a flight time of 6 minutes to build up to detonation?
The Genesis Device was not designed to work against shielded targets. It's safe to say it wasn't designed to worked against armored targets as well.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
- Darth Garden Gnome
- Official SD.Net Lawn Ornament
- Posts: 6029
- Joined: 2002-07-08 02:35am
- Location: Some where near a mailbox
- Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Care to justify this non sequitur? Treknology chain reaction effects on the surface silicates of a typical planetoid are well-documented. Treknology limitations against heavy metals are also well-documented.Alyeska wrote:If it can turn a ball of rock into a planet, and this is creating a planet with 1G of gravity on the surface, then I think it would seriously fuck over the DS if not outright destroy it.Lord Poe wrote:This entire premise is silly. Why would the Death Star's shields be down? Was the Genesis Device fired in a sneak attack, by a ship so cloaked that the Death Star couldn't detect it? Was the Genesis Device also cloaked and undetectable? Was the Genesis Wave somehow cloaked as well, since it seems that either the Genesis Device needs a flight time of 6 minutes to build up to detonation?
The Genesis Device was not designed to work against shielded targets. It's safe to say it wasn't designed to worked against armored targets as well.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
I'd like to remind a few geniuses that the shield is immaterial in the scenario as specified in the OP.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
- Col. Crackpot
- That Obnoxious Guy
- Posts: 10228
- Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
- Location: Rhode Island
- Contact:
so given trek's track record of weakness against heavy metals, i don't think the damage is critical, however it might lead to a rather interestingly decorated death star hull......grass and trees with fine lake for fishing, untill the atmosphere floats away due to lack of gravity and the superlaser boils off the lake that sits in it's dish.
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
- Col. Crackpot
- That Obnoxious Guy
- Posts: 10228
- Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
- Location: Rhode Island
- Contact:
thats right! artificial gravity! Well then i guess the only problem they would really have is one hell of a rainstorm after they fire the superlaser.JodoForce wrote:Actually there won't be lack of gravity
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
- Slartibartfast
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 6730
- Joined: 2002-09-10 05:35pm
- Location: Where The Sea Meets The Sky
- Contact: