Is this a way that Treknology could defeat a Jedi?

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-04-28 03:36pm

neoolong wrote:Actually, I meant it to show that transporters do work on moving targets.

The sniper rifle is not evidence of such a thing occuring. It acts on the bullet, which is located in the barrel of the weapon. While not actually motionless, its location is extremely easy to determine. From there it simply rematerializes the bullet straight in front of the barrel at a distance determined by the internal sensor system. It does not transport the bullet directly into the body of a moving target.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-04-28 03:58pm

I never said you could transport it into someone's body.

It was in response to "I've never seen a Trek transporter transport a moving target."

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-04-28 04:18pm

And when have we seen transporters so closely manipulate a being cell structure?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-04-28 04:32pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:And when have we seen transporters so closely manipulate a being cell structure?

well technically replicators and transporters work on the same principles, and replicators work on that level (am i right on that?)

I dont think you can beam things out of the bloodstream though, and I think thats just treknoogy wanking at its worst, the transporter is not the great savior of Trek vs. SW. Evidence u ask? Well if someone is being beamed up to a ship and someone touches them during transport they go along with them. eliciting a "where the hell am I" response. If that happens with two distinct individuals then the transporter will have a helluva time beaming blood or parts of said blood out of a body.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-04-28 04:56pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:And when have we seen transporters so closely manipulate a being cell structure?

Unnatural Selection. A transporter can re-write your DNA with proper tweeking.

[Link fixed- in future, put a "+" sign between the words in the episode name- DW]

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-04-28 06:25pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:And when have we seen transporters so closely manipulate a being cell structure?
well technically replicators and transporters work on the same principles, and replicators work on that level (am i right on that?)

True. In fact, IIRC, the replicator is actually a less sophisticated variation on the technology.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-04-28 08:27pm

Would it not be possible to transport a Jedi along with a large area of air around him, similar to the whales in ST4? Perhaps that would keep him in.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-04-28 08:29pm

Darth Wong wrote:Second, we are disregarding the fact that a sufficiently large volume of firepower would defeat even a Jedi, so why play games?

I think its a forgone conclusion that nobody considers worth the time to type. Even the most rabid idiotic Wars fan would not claim that several hundred photon torpedos would not kill a Jedi. If you add enough energy, you can kill a lot of things.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-04-28 08:36pm

Darth Wong wrote:Second, we are disregarding the fact that a sufficiently large volume of firepower would defeat even a Jedi, so why play games?

Because many of the ignorant and/or uneducated that believe in STs technological superiority always point to the transporters as a key if not the key) argument to back their claim.

Transporters as a weapon is ridiculous due to their inherent inability to work in technobabble storms, around cosmic energy fields, or even during a Spring Shower if the clouds aren't coated in a methyoxillidatic susbtance that increases field resonancy to the point where maximum subspace cohesion can occur.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-04-29 10:07am

Darth Servo wrote: Unnatural Selection. A transporter can re-write your DNA with proper tweeking.

Yet in "The Enemy", they can't replicate "ribsomes"

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-04-29 10:23am

neoolong wrote:I never said you could transport it into someone's body.

It was in response to "I've never seen a Trek transporter transport a moving target."

It happened in ST:Nemesis a couple of times. Picard looked shocked when he was beamed out by the Remans, and then the E-E beamed up the little tactical fighter that Picard and Data were escaping from Skippy's fortress in.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-04-29 10:34am

Lord Poe wrote:
Darth Servo wrote: Unnatural Selection. A transporter can re-write your DNA with proper tweeking.
Yet in "The Enemy", they can't replicate "ribsomes"

Hence the phrase "proper tweeking" which is basically any unreliable technobabble solution.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-29 12:22pm

Could the Trekkies who think transporters can do this please find me the episode in which the transporter was used to instantly remove all of the Borg nanoprobes from an assimilated crewman's body?

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-29 12:32pm

Darth Wong wrote:Could the Trekkies who think transporters can do this please find me the episode in which the transporter was used to instantly remove all of the Borg nanoprobes from an assimilated crewman's body?

they can't, because it has never happened. IIRC in FC (and i'm pretty damn sure) Picard still has borg implants in his body that are impossible to remove.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-04-29 12:48pm

Darth Wong wrote:Could the Trekkies who think transporters can do this please find me the episode in which the transporter was used to instantly remove all of the Borg nanoprobes from an assimilated crewman's body?

One better: In "Conspiracy" not only did they not even attempt to use the transporters to remove the parasite controling Admiral Quinn, their renouned bio-filters didn't even detect the thing, even though Dr. Crusher's medical equipment had no problem scanning it.

Funny--there are no entries for this episode in the database.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-04-29 12:57pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Could the Trekkies who think transporters can do this please find me the episode in which the transporter was used to instantly remove all of the Borg nanoprobes from an assimilated crewman's body?
they can't, because it has never happened. IIRC in FC (and i'm pretty damn sure) Picard still has borg implants in his body that are impossible to remove.

Isn't the usual explanation that they need the parts to survive? Kind of like why Seven still has some Borg parts?

I still don't think it's possible though.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-29 02:10pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
they can't, because it has never happened. IIRC in FC (and i'm pretty damn sure) Picard still has borg implants in his body that are impossible to remove.

Yes, he says there implants are still throughout body.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-04-29 02:24pm

neoolong wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Could the Trekkies who think transporters can do this please find me the episode in which the transporter was used to instantly remove all of the Borg nanoprobes from an assimilated crewman's body?
they can't, because it has never happened. IIRC in FC (and i'm pretty damn sure) Picard still has borg implants in his body that are impossible to remove.
Isn't the usual explanation that they need the parts to survive? Kind of like why Seven still has some Borg parts?

I still don't think it's possible though.

i think whether or not the parts are needed to survive is relevant. but not in the way you are thinking. the the question is do the feddie transporters have the ability to remove all borg nanoprobes from someones body. the answer to that is no,or at best not without killing the infected person. if they had this ability Picard would be Borg-free. There was a TNG episode IIRC where nanites were removed from crewmembers using, at least in part, the transporters. most likely this claim is a result of a leap in logic and an assumption that if the transporters can remove nanites then the transporter can remove all little mechanical thingies and thingamabobs from someone's body.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-29 04:44pm

If we were to believe all of the Trekkie claims about transporters and replicators being able to remove impurities, reconstruct damaged organs from DNA, fabricate organs etc., then Picard would have his original heart and not a single Borg implant in his body.

The funny thing is that Trekkies won't admit that they overestimate the transporter. The FACT is that Roga Danar was able to break a transporter lock and foil a transport attempt by pushing against it, and all of the crying in the world won't change that fact, nor will it change the fact that throughout the history of armed Trek conflict, hostile boarding parties on starships are never instantly beamed out into space or into holding areas, despite Trekkie predictions.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-04-29 05:01pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Darth Servo wrote: Unnatural Selection. A transporter can re-write your DNA with proper tweeking.
Yet in "The Enemy", they can't replicate "ribsomes"

Nor a vaccine in Code of Honor.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-04-29 05:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:The funny thing is that Trekkies won't admit that they overestimate the transporter. The FACT is that Roga Danar was able to break a transporter lock and foil a transport attempt by pushing against it, and all of the crying in the world won't change that fact, nor will it change the fact that throughout the history of armed Trek conflict, hostile boarding parties on starships are never instantly beamed out into space or into holding areas, despite Trekkie predictions.

There is only one instance of beaming intruders into a holding area. Its Rascals. But this required sneeking up and placing a federation com thing onto them in order to do it. Not much good if you ask me.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2003-04-30 12:42am

Isolder74 wrote:There is only one instance of beaming intruders into a holding area. Its Rascals. But this required sneeking up and placing a federation com thing onto them in order to do it. Not much good if you ask me.

Shit, now we have to wait for rabid Trekkies to scream that Data and Worf could transport Jedi by nailing them with combadges tossed like throwing stars.* After all, the Feds have ninja suits so they must be trained in the dark arts.

*Well, actually Data was supposed to do this in a deleted scene from Insurrection, breaking a drone open and throwing the isolinear tags at So'na troops to get them inadvertantly transported away.

-- Joe Momma

Yeah, I know that the Jedi would just deflect or dodge them anyway...

General G · Post by **General G** » 2003-05-08 05:20pm

Is the Transporter really necessary ? A few hundred redshirts moving in at the Jedi from all directions while fireing generic phaser rifles should be able to get a hit. Jedi aren’t exactly immune to a large number of weapons being fire at them at once, as shown in AOTC. The phasers may have a slower rate of fire than battledroids’s guns but a large number of them would be able to bring down a Jedi.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-05-08 05:37pm

General G wrote:Is the Transporter really necessary ? A few hundred redshirts moving in at the Jedi from all directions while fireing generic phaser rifles should be able to get a hit. Jedi aren’t exactly immune to a large number of weapons being fire at them at once, as shown in AOTC. The phasers may have a slower rate of fire than battledroids’s guns but a large number of them would be able to bring down a Jedi.

You forgot to explain how a jedi would allow himself to get into that situation in the first place.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-08 06:29pm

General G wrote:Is the Transporter really necessary ? A few hundred redshirts moving in at the Jedi from all directions while fireing generic phaser rifles should be able to get a hit. Jedi aren’t exactly immune to a large number of weapons being fire at them at once, as shown in AOTC. The phasers may have a slower rate of fire than battledroids’s guns but a large number of them would be able to bring down a Jedi.

That's assuming by some miracle they don't all shoot one another by accident or forget to continue breathing as they feel victory coming on.