[DTGOD] To the Democratic Nations

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 08:26pm

The Pan-Slavic Republic has viewed the rapid treaty-mongering of the various totalitarian powers with alarm. Our Parliament has made the decision to make overtures of alliance to the various democratic nations of the world. On our side stands rule by the people and for the people, the rule of law over privilige. We are relatively few, and our potential enemies are led by capricious dictators who will defend their rule by any means available. Because we allow our people a share in their own government, they may well see us as a threat.

It is therefore imperative that we band together to defend democracy. The PSR will take the initiative by offering an alliance, open to all the nations that place power in the hands of the people. It's opening provisions, subject to debate and revision, are as follows:

1) Each signatory nation will defend the other from attack by totalitarian states.
2) Each signatory nation agrees to a policy of open cultural and economic exchange.
3) The undersigned agrees to assist nascent democratic movements abroad whenever possible.

We await your replies with trepidation.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-28 08:37pm

Despite propoganda to the contrary the New Roman Empire is a people's republic, governed jointly by the caesar and the Senate, elected by he people. We wish a seat on this alliance.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-04-28 08:39pm

While the Free Floater Republics would like nothing so much as to join with you, we must respectfully and regretfully decline to enter this most honorable and important organization.

Due to a non-agression pact with the Asgard Empire, the Floater Republics are unable to take any action against the current alliance of totalitarian powers.

Until our treaty with the Asgard Empire has expired, we are forced by word-bond to avoid any action against it. We will support this alliance of democratic states as closely as possible, and should the current arrangement with the Asgard Empire fail, then we will move to provide direct support to the Alliance of Democracies immediatly.

All bondmen/freemen/lovebound of the four Free Republics applaud the actions of the Pan-Slavic Republic, and we pray that diplomatic situations wiull allow us to more closely ally as soon as possible.

Additionally, the Free Floater Republics will NOT join in any sort of military alliance which includes a power which espouses slavery. If the NRI joins the Alliance of Democracies, then the Free Floater Republics will not be joining, under any circumstances. Slavery is completely evil.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-04-28 08:42pm

We cannot accept your treaty at this time as intergalactic politics does not allow it.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 08:45pm

Thirdfain wrote:Due to a non-agression pact with the Asgard Empire, the Floater Republics are unable to take any action against the current alliance of totalitarian powers.

This alliance is purely defensive in nature, and we respectfully submit that aggression against any democratic nation is aggression against them all.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 08:53pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Despite propoganda to the contrary the New Roman Empire is a people's republic, governed jointly by the caesar and the Senate, elected by he people. We wish a seat on this alliance.

The PSR categorically refuses this offer. The New Roman Empire is no peoples' republic, for it maintains large numbers of erstwhile citizens in slavery. Regardless of whether or not your upper classes are represented in government, no democracy would allow millions to languish in servitude.*

We will make no alliances with slave-owners. Such an agreement would lead to rioting in the streets of every city in the Republic. Even the Czars found your practices distasteful. Go and find another alliance, with people who are not disgusted by the daily rape of sacred liberty.

* All comparisons to the USA from 1776-1860 aside

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-04-28 08:54pm

This alliance is purely defensive in nature, and we respectfully submit that aggression against any democratic nation is aggression against them all.

On second thought, the Free Floater Republics are happy to join this august alliance, under two circumstances:

1. Until such times as the current non-agression pact with the Asgard Empire is broken, no Floater vessels will take action against the Asgard Empire in any way.

2. The New Roman Empire, a slave-owning power, is forbidden admittance to the alliance, until it passes legislation empancipating it's slaves.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-28 09:04pm

Emancipation of the slaves is a matter that rests in their own hands. Those who wish their freedom gain it. There are many who do not, for the living conditions of a slave are on par with those of many middle-class citizens.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 09:05pm

Thirdfain wrote:On second thought, the Free Floater Republics are happy to join this august alliance, under two circumstances:

1. Until such times as the current non-agression pact with the Asgard Empire is broken, no Floater vessels will take action against the Asgard Empire in any way.

2. The New Roman Empire, a slave-owning power, is forbidden admittance to the alliance, until it passes legislation empancipating it's slaves.

Both articles are acceptable, the second more than the first, though

. We thank the Free Floater Republics for their forward-thinking entrance into this body.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 09:12pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Emancipation of the slaves is a matter that rests in their own hands. Those who wish their freedom gain it. There are many who do not, for the living conditions of a slave are on par with those of many middle-class citizens.

Lies and distortions. If it is so easy to become free, then explain the regular revolts of slaves, and the near-constant flow of runaways across the line of the Dnieper, from your territory to ours? These poor men and women agree that they are well fed, but they say that they would rather starve than live any longer in bondage, without the freedom to do as they would do, with only the knowledge that they are owned by another.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-28 09:19pm

Lies and distortions. If it is so easy to become free, then explain the regular revolts of slaves, and the near-constant flow of runaways across the line of the Dnieper, from your territory to ours? These poor men and women agree that they are well fed, but they say that they would rather starve than live any longer in bondage, without the freedom to do as they would do, with only the knowledge that they are owned by another.

As there has been one slave revolt in the entirety of the history of the New Roman Empire, perpetrated by bloodthirsty criminals and murders, we can only imagine that your ban on mind-altering drugs is not so thorough as you may think.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-04-28 09:23pm

As there has been one slave revolt in the entirety of the history of the New Roman Empire, perpetrated by bloodthirsty criminals and murders, we can only imagine that your ban on mind-altering drugs is not so thorough as you may think

.

The Southern Slave States did an excellent job of covering up the slave unrest they had to deal with, and they didn't have half the prowess of the current NRE. We will take your assertions with a grain of salt.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-04-28 09:24pm

We ouselves have rescued groups f escaped "indentured servants" They speak of the same things...what say you to that?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-28 09:24pm

Believe what you will. Our slaves are adminstrators and personal servants, not fieldhands.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-28 09:28pm

We ouselves have rescued groups f escaped "indentured servants" They speak of the same things...what say you to that?

Lies pushed upon the people by enemies of Rome.

OOC:
Really guys, I'm telling the truth. Slavery in the NRE is much like it was in the old one, just more humane. There have been no bloody slave uprisings and no escapes, life as a slave isn't horrible, freedom can be won, etc. etc. I understand the opposition but I'm a bit peeved at these 'Oh, we've rescued slaves blah blah blah' things.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 09:33pm

HemlockGrey wrote:As there has been one slave revolt in the entirety of the history of the New Roman Empire, perpetrated by bloodthirsty criminals and murders, we can only imagine that your ban on mind-altering drugs is not so thorough as you may think.

We have only banned those drugs which are chemically addictive, and we wonder if the New Roman Empire has forgotten that the Czars and their restrictive laws were fully removed a decade ago. Perhaps you still wish for the Halcyon days in which the Tsar would visit Constantinople to recieve mass, and trade stories of repression with your Emperor. But know that Gregorii is dead, and the Romanov line died with him.

It is true that the New Roman Empire has had only one major slave revolt. But the PSR understands well the system of servitude, and it is full with the knowledge that such a system suffers under the constant chipping away of its foundations by the desperate actions of individual slaves.

OOC: Whether slaves strike back by simply running away or sabotaging production, every system of slavery in history, from Egypt to the CSA, weathered these minor rebellions.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-28 09:38pm

There have always been some discontented individuals who have sought their freedom in violent and unpleasant ways when there are clear peaceful alternatives open to them. I imagine this is true in your society as well.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 09:43pm

HemlockGrey wrote:OOC:
Really guys, I'm telling the truth. Slavery in the NRE is much like it was in the old one, just more humane. There have been no bloody slave uprisings and no escapes, life as a slave isn't horrible, freedom can be won, etc. etc. I understand the opposition but I'm a bit peeved at these 'Oh, we've rescued slaves blah blah blah' things.

OOC: That's incredibly naive. It's like Straha's underestimation of the force of nationalism, only times a few dozen. Even in a humane system of slavery, you're going to have a constant draining effect and occasional explosions. Try comparing it to the lives of African Americans in the deep South, from 1865 to the early 1970s.

These people could move up socially, they didn't revolt bloodily, and they were treated with relative humanity (most didn't have to fear regular beatings and execution, anyway). But still, simply being Black marked a person as below a white, it closed doors to them, and made things generally intolerable. What did you get, by 1950? A system bubbling with rebellion, which probably would have become a molotov cocktail rather quickly, if not for the peaceful civil rights movement.

And that was with people who weren't even slaves. Now, if you're going to claim that slaves are treated well, or even that they're somehow treated as equals, well... bullshit.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-28 09:46pm

OOC: In ancient Rome, after a slave earned their freedom there was little to no social stigma attached to them. Further, slaves are not regarded as 'sub-humans' as blacks were.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-04-28 09:46pm

Would this treaty be open for the signing of the Monacoran Empire? Or are we excluded because we are a constitutional (EDIT: man I hate stupid screw ups, don't you?) monarchy?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-28 09:55pm

Straha wrote:Would this treaty be open for the signing of the Monacoran Empire? Or are we excluded because we are a constitutional (EDIT: man I hate stupid screw ups, don't you?) monarchy?

Unless you have some elected body, which can effectively overrule your chief executive I'd say no.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 09:59pm

HemlockGrey wrote:OOC: In ancient Rome, after a slave earned their freedom there was little to no social stigma attached to them. Further, slaves are not regarded as 'sub-humans' as blacks were.

Red herring, you're evading the point. And my point is, anyone who doesn't have rights (your slaves) will be looked down upon and exploited by most of the people who have rights (your citizens). Being looked down upon and exploited pisses people off.

Now, imagine that you're a slave in Bulgaria, a machinist for example. You think about finding a way to cross the border in my nation. There, you have marketable work skills, probably programs designed to help ex-slaves, and I can guarantee you that there are people in private organizations who will do whatever they can to help you get across the Dnieper.

If you stay in Bulgaria, you can expect to work for years before you can earn your freedom; if you have a mean owner, he might just sieze what you've earned anyway, and fuck you over for another dozen years. Now, you way the risk of being caught and punished against the benefit of years of your life, possibly even your whole life. Honestly, what would you choose?

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-04-28 10:00pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Straha wrote:Would this treaty be open for the signing of the Monacoran Empire? Or are we excluded because we are a constitutional (EDIT: man I hate stupid screw ups, don't you?) monarchy?
Unless you have some elected body, which can effectively overrule your chief executive I'd say no.

Parliment makes the laws, parliment can be vetoed by the political prince, who can in turn be overturned by a vote of 75% or more in Parliment against his ruling. The military prince has no offical political say, but he is veery important influentially. (paraphrased from the inital declarations thread)

That good enough to get in?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-28 10:05pm

Straha wrote:Parliment makes the laws, parliment can be vetoed by the political prince, who can in turn be overturned by a vote of 75% or more in Parliment against his ruling. The military prince has no offical political say, but he is veery important influentially. (paraphrased from the inital declarations thread)

That good enough to get in?

Yes, that's fine. My nation will be leery of you until circumstances prove you trustworthy, however, because we had basically the same arrangement immediately before we became a full republic. Then the Czar decided he wanted to sieze power.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-04-28 10:07pm

Straha wrote:
Parliment makes the laws, parliment can be vetoed by the political prince, who can in turn be overturned by a vote of 75% or more in Parliment against his ruling. The military prince has no offical political say, but he is veery important influentially. (paraphrased from the inital declarations thread)

That good enough to get in?

If the prince, why are they if they're in power anyway, is only a figurehead and perhaps head of state then you could be considered a democracy.