The New McCarthyism.

[Tom_Aurum]

So, I just thought I'd mention, how many public figures have been fired in the last few months for expressing an "unamerican" sentiment?

What happened when the Dixie Chicks _dared_ to speak up against president Bush?

Are foreigners on visa violations still being detained without trial? I'm not quite up to date on this one. I know it has been proven on dozens of the cases that the charges were completely unfounded.

In my humble opinion we don't even have an elected president, and won't be living in a democracy until at the very least the electoral college is disbanded.

Anyways, anyone want to take bets on how long it will be before we hear these questions on national telivision?

"Are you now, or have you ever been a terrorist."

"Have you ever been associated with a known terrorist organization, or associated with a member of a terrorist organization?"

[Joe]

So, I just thought I'd mention, how many public figures have been fired in the last few months for expressing an "unamerican" sentiment?

How about a list?

What happened when the Dixie Chicks _dared_ to speak up against president Bush?

The market responded. It is ridiculous and really pointless exploitation of one of the worst periods in our history to compare what happened to the Dixie Chicks to McCarthyism. No one is prosecuting the Dixie Chicks for anything.

In my humble opinion we don't even have an elected president, and won't be living in a democracy until at the very least the electoral college is disbanded.

Bush won, Gore's a loser, get over it. Your opinion is wrong.

Anyways, anyone want to take bets on how long it will be before we hear these questions on national telivision?

"Are you now, or have you ever been a terrorist."

"Have you ever been associated with a known terrorist organization, or associated with a member of a terrorist organization?"

Probably when the sky falls.

It's true that civil liberties aren't nearly as safe as they need to be right now in America, but to put the current era in the same league as McCarthyism is utterly ridiculous.

[Ralnia]

So, I just thought I'd mention, how many public figures have been fired in the last few months for expressing an "unamerican" sentiment

I don't think that they've been outright fired, just taken aside and "asked" to resign.

Are foreigners on visa violations still being detained without trial?

Yes, but I'm not up-to-date on that either.

In my humble opinion we don't even have an elected president, and won't be living in a democracy until at the very least the electoral college is disbanded.

We have an elected president, and he's technically legitimate under our system, but I think that the only true democracy in the world is Sweden.

Anyways, anyone want to take bets on how long it will be before we hear these questions on national telivision?

"Are you now, or have you ever been a terrorist."

"Have you ever been associated with a known terrorist organization, or associated with a member of a terrorist organization?"

I'll bet they'll appear in about October 2004.

[Wicked Pilot]

Anyways, anyone want to take bets on how long it will be before we hear these questions on national telivision?

"Are you now, or have you ever been a terrorist."

"Have you ever been associated with a known terrorist organization, or associated with a member of a terrorist organization?"

Being a terrorist means you are engaging in illegal activity. Simply being communist means you only hold a certain ideological belief. There is a difference here. If the government were to ask if you have ever been associated with a fundie muslim organization, then that would be a better comparison. As to your other rants, be careful or you may get burned if you can't back them up.

[Beowulf]

We live in a republic, not a democracy.

[Nathan F]

And Durran saves me the trouble of typing, again. Thank you.

Another whiner who is mad because Bush is President, and there is nothing s/he can do about it...

Dammit, the man is in office, bitch all you want but he is there for at least 1 more year.

[SirNitram]

The only McArthurism going on is in Ashcroft's wetdreams. Thankfully, his witchhunts have gone down lately, though I don't expect this to remain.

[weemadando]

Being a terrorist means you are engaging in illegal activity. Simply being communist means you only hold a certain ideological belief. There is a difference here. If the government were to ask if you have ever been associated with a fundie muslim organization, then that would be a better comparison. As to your other rants, be careful or you may get burned if you can't back them up.

Wrong. Current international law (prompted and in some cases imposed by the US) means that "terrorism" can now be an ideological belief as well. How many of the people at Guantanamo Bay were actually active terrorists at the time of their capture and how many were just members of the Taliban organisation?

I hate to break it to you but it is currently a crime to endorse terrorism in many nations, even if you just say: "You know, I think that those Mujhadeen blokes are just misunderstood..."

[Durandal]

Bush won, Gore's a loser, get over it. Your opinion is wrong.

His "opinion" would be a simple observation. Try getting a hold of your knee-jerk reaction to any proposal for getting rid of the electoral college just because it would disqualify a president whose performance you happen to approve of.

We won't live in anything like a democracy until the electoral college is disbanded and the president is elected by a straight, popular vote. Until then, we live in a republic (some would argue a democratic republic, but the system resembles a republic far more than a democracy).

[Joe]

Of course we live in a Republic, that's what this country was intended to be.

The election of the Presidency was never intended to be a national plebiscite.

[MKSheppard]

We won't live in anything like a democracy until the electoral college is disbanded and the president is elected by a straight, popular vote.

If that happened, the Second War Between The States would occur

[Durandal]

Of course we live in a Republic, that's what this country was intended to be.

Not entirely. Lots of state government functions are democratic. Also, politicians love to brag about how the polls say that the people are on their side. Well, if they're so concerned about going to the people directly to support their stance, why not go to the people directly to elect the president, as well?

The election of the Presidency was never intended to be a national plebiscite.

That was during a time where mass-media was non-existent. Now, everyone has access to a television. The primary motivator for the electoral college, from my understanding, was to get presidential candidates to campaign in as many states as they could, even the ones with small populations. However, now it's essentially moot. I couldn't care less if a presidential candidate came to my town and campaigned. I care about finding out what his stances on major issues are, and I can do that by looking on the internet and televised presidential debates. So can just about everyone else.

[Durandal]

We won't live in anything like a democracy until the electoral college is disbanded and the president is elected by a straight, popular vote.

If that happened, the Second War Between The States would occur

I don't think it'd go quite that far.

[Joe]

Not entirely. Lots of state government functions are democratic. Also, politicians love to brag about how the polls say that the people are on their side. Well, if they're so concerned about going to the people directly to support their stance, why not go to the people directly to elect the president, as well?

We live in a Republic with democratic procedures. It is still a Republic.

That was during a time where mass-media was non-existent. Now, everyone has access to a television. The primary motivator for the electoral college, from my understanding, was to get presidential candidates to campaign in as many states as they could, even the ones with small populations. However, now it's essentially moot. I couldn't care less if a presidential candidate came to my town and campaigned. I care about finding out what his stances on major issues are, and I can do that by looking on the internet and televised presidential debates. So can just about everyone else.

The electoral college was designed so that one region of the country could not dominate over another. It was also designed to ensure a balance of power in the federal government; each state has (roughly, though there are some kinks) equal influence in the house, the senate, and also within the Presidency.

And the popular vote concern is hooey. An estimated 5% of the popular vote is fraudulent. A purely democratic election of the President in a country as large as America wouldn't work.

[MKSheppard]

I don't think it'd go quite that far.

The small states would not want to be outpowered by the colossus that
is California, and well, wars have started over less

[Stuart Mackey]

I don't think it'd go quite that far.

The small states would not want to be outpowered by the colossus that
is California, and well, wars have started over less

The question you should ask yourself is, are you an American or are you not?

[Gandalf]

I've seen this coming since all those flags appeared at 9/11.

[Stuart Mackey]

I've seen this coming since all those flags appeared at 9/11.

What bugs me is how the language gets butchered.
Example: Calling a pro war rally, a pro-America rally.

[Aeolus]

So, I just thought I'd mention, how many public figures have been fired in the last few months for expressing an "unamerican" sentiment?

What happened when the Dixie Chicks _dared_ to speak up against president Bush?

Are foreigners on visa violations still being detained without trial? I'm not quite up to date on this one. I know it has been proven on dozens of the cases that the charges were completely unfounded.

In my humble opinion we don't even have an elected president, and won't be living in a democracy until at the very least the electoral college is disbanded.

Anyways, anyone want to take bets on how long it will be before we hear these questions on national telivision?

"Are you now, or have you ever been a terrorist."

"Have you ever been associated with a known terrorist organization, or associated with a member of a terrorist organization?"

Even if I agreed with you, disbanding the electoral college is basically impossible. It would require a constitutional amendment. ie: ratification by the legislatures of 3/4th of the states.
The electoral college prevents the 4 or 5 biggest states from domination the 45 or 46 smaller states. The small states will never under any circumstance allow that to happen.

[Aeolus]

We won't live in anything like a democracy until the electoral college is disbanded and the president is elected by a straight, popular vote.

If that happened, the Second War Between The States would occur

I don't think it'd go quite that far.

Well it wouldn't only because it's impossibe to get 3/4th of the state to ratify. If the electoral college was abolished without a legal amendment then yes the small state would rebel. (again a moot point as it is not going to happen)

[Aeolus]

I don't think it'd go quite that far.

The small states would not want to be outpowered by the colossus that
is California, and well, wars have started over less

The question you should ask yourself is, are you an American or are you not?

He's correct the mid western and mountain state would definatly go to war to prevent a complete take over by California, New York, or Texas. I don't think you really understand U.S. demographics..These 3 states would absolutly dominate a true democracy. Most small states already believe they are far to powerful.

[Aeolus]

The small states would not want to be outpowered by the colossus that
is California, and well, wars have started over less

The question you should ask yourself is, are you an American or are you not?

He's correct the mid western and mountain state would definatly go to war to prevent a complete take over by California, New York, or Texas. I don't think you really understand U.S. demographics..These 3 states would absolutly dominate a true democracy. Most small states already believe they are far to powerful.

But of course this is just an academic debate, their have been around 100 attempts to get rid of or radically change the college in the last century or so, and the small states shot down every one

[Stuart Mackey]

But of course this is just an academic debate, their have been around 100 attempts to get rid of or radically change the college in the last century or so, and the small states shot down every one

I dont pretend to understand American demographics totally. But I will ask the question again.
Are you American, or are you not?

[Aeolus]

But of course this is just an academic debate, their have been around 100 attempts to get rid of or radically change the college in the last century or so, and the small states shot down every one

I dont pretend to understand American demographics totally. But I will ask the question again.
Are you American, or are you not?

I am a Texan, we are members of the American Union. I am an American. Note that to foreigners I am an American, to Americans I am a Texan. That is how a FEDERAL UNION works. The United States is a union, federation, confederacy of legaly equal states. That is the reason for the electoral collage. Otherwise we would merely be an empire dominated by 1 or more of the larger states. Yes Texas is one of the largest states but that does not mean that I would want us to rule Oklahoma or Lousiana. I think the biggest mistake people in other nation make is to see The US as a single monolithic entity. We have an old saying "politics stop at the shore" It basically means that when dealing with other Nations we are one people. But inside are own country all the gloves are off.

[Lonestar]

Wrong. Current international law (prompted and in some cases imposed by the US) means that "terrorism" can now be an ideological belief as well. How many of the people at Guantanamo Bay were actually active terrorists at the time of their capture and how many were just members of the Taliban organisation?

I hate to break it to you but it is currently a crime to endorse terrorism in many nations, even if you just say: "You know, I think that those Mujhadeen blokes are just misunderstood..."

I'd roll my eyes but those muscles are tired.

weemadando, every single one of those dettainees in Guantanamo is there either because (1) He was shooting at Coalition forces in Afghanistan or (2) he was later identified as someone who was shooting at Coalition forces.

Some that are kept there are kept there because we think they'll become suicide bombers the second they step out the door.

I relate the story of "Crazy Bob" to you. Bob has no legs. And he's insane. Not a fanatic, insane. So after a few weeks we decided he had no intel value and we were going to dump him into an insane asylum in Kabul. Of course, he told everyone he met that as soon as he got out he'd strap explosives to his chest and blow some Americans up.

"Okay, I guess you said the magic words...."