Help in "Hitler wasn't a Christian" argument

[Peregrin Toker]

Now if a Christian is looking for a high ranking Nazi to paint as a pagan, Heinrich Himmler and his nutcase belief in the occult would be the one I'd turn to.

No, they should point to Varg Vikernes, a prominent norwegian Neo-Nazi who happens to be a pagan.

[Glocksman]

I thought he was excommunicated, but only recently. Hmm. I'll take a look.

Interesting.
If he has, please post a link. I'd like to read about it.

Thanks.

[Darth Wong]

Fact: the Catholic Church considers you a Catholic if you were baptised Catholic, even if you haven't attended church in years. This is how they generate their fantastically inflated membership numbers. Even confirmed atheists are still on church rolls for this reason.

Fact: the Catholic Church claims that they did not excommunicate Hitler because they feared reprisals.

Fact: the Catholic Church has not explained why they did not excommunicate Hitler as soon as the Nazis were on the ropes.

Fact: it is very difficult to find a clear statement from the Catholic Church on whether they ever did excommunicate Hitler, but he was certainly known to be counted as a church member at the end of the war.

Fact: despite claims to the contrary, the Catholic Church not only tolerated Hitler but maintained close, warm relations with him leading up to the war despite his well-publicized anti-Semitism which he had never kept secret. The archbishop of Germany was given instructions to convey warm greetings, and attended Hitler's birthday parties, among other things.

Fact: websites which seek to address the question of whether Hitler was excommunicated tend to evade the question by claiming that he was no longer Catholic in principle because of his behaviour (an odd statement from the perpetrators of the Inquisitions), hence no excommunication is needed. Indeed, they never do answer the question of whether he was, in fact, excommunicated at all, or if so, how long it took for public pressure to achieve this. Look at this article which cites the widely discredited, uncorroborated bullshit quotes from Bormann and Rauschning as evidence that he was not Catholic (while completely ignoring the question of whether he was excommunicated) and this article which, again, ignores the question and acts as though excommunication was totally unnecessary even as a symbolic statement.

Question: if you were running a church and Hitler was a member, would you want to distance yourself from him as much as possible? All of the excuses I hear for the Catholic Church's failure to excommunicate Hitler ring hollow.

[Queeb Salaron]

::Points to the links in Wong's article:: Yeah, I found a whole bunch of shit like that, too. Nothing confirmed, nothing worth reading. Just a whole bunch of bullshit.

Welcome to Catholicism.

[Glocksman]

Question: if you were running a church and Hitler was a member, would you want to distance yourself from him as much as possible? All of the excuses I hear for the Catholic Church's failure to excommunicate Hitler ring hollow.

It would depend upon the type of 'church' I was running.
If I were Richard Butler or Matthew Hale, I'd embrace Hitler.

If I were Billy Graham or the Pope, I'd be so far distant from Hitler that you'd need a map and a GPS to find me.

[Queeb Salaron]

It would depend upon the type of 'church' I was running.
If I were Richard Butler or Matthew Hale, I'd embrace Hitler.

Though most neo-satanists denounce the Nazis as simply violent, ignorant twits (no reference intended), Anton Szandor Lavey DID have some interesting things to say about Hitler. Basically, Lavey said that because Hitler was intelligent, his murder of Jews was acceptable. If he had been an ignorant thug (like some later authority figures), he wouldn't have been justified.

If I were Billy Graham or the Pope, I'd be so far distant from Hitler that you'd need a map and a GPS to find me.

Umm... I don't think the Pope can move fast enough for the GPS to recognize motion.

[lgot]

Fact: despite claims to the contrary, the Catholic Church not only tolerated Hitler but maintained close, warm relations with him leading up to the war despite his well-publicized anti-Semitism which he had never kept secret.

Not only this. Some years ago, The Catholic Church started the process to turn the Pope of the WW period in saint (actually, I know he would not be a saint straigth off, but the english word for this is gone) and that process was heavilly critized because that same Pope not only oversaw Hitler but was anti-semitic as well.
I guess people like this must think you would follow the "Hittler was evil. Hittler was Christian. I am Christian. I am Evil". twisted logic, since generalization is something they do a lot...

[Yogi]

Idiocy increasing . . .

The argument has now shifted to using Religon vs. Rationalism to analyze the world. So now the opponent is dredging up every single Nasty Thing in history that I can't peg directly on religon, and calling it the failures of rationalism (since the decsisions to do those events were made by rational means.) His newest attack, the A-bomb dropping on Hiroshima.

On a seperate skirmsh, another person is asking if we should invalidats Nietzsche since thw Nazis drew their inspiration from him as well.

[Darth Wong]

Idiocy increasing . . .

The argument has now shifted to using Religon vs. Rationalism to analyze the world. So now the opponent is dredging up every single Nasty Thing in history that I can't peg directly on religon, and calling it the failures of rationalism (since the decsisions to do those events were made by rational means.) His newest attack, the A-bomb dropping on Hiroshima.

How does the A-bomb invalidate rationalism? It functioned correctly, did it not? The question of whether something is true has nothing to do with the question of whether you would like it to be true. Indeed, while the Japanese prayed for salvation, the Americans used nuclear physics. Guess who won.

On a seperate skirmsh, another person is asking if we should invalidats Nietzsche since thw Nazis drew their inspiration from him as well.

The Nazis drew far more inspiration from Martin Luther and the Bible than they did from Nietszche. Besides, it's stupid reasoning anyway. Do we reject jet aircraft because the Nazis invented them?

[Thunderfire]

Here is a link about the catholic church & the hollocaust.
http://www.logon.org/_domain/holocaustr ... roatia.htm

[Hendrake]

I'm going to put my 2c in a somewhat related argument:

Mussolini, Hitler's ally, not only was catholic christian, but is the fucking fascist nutter responsable of giving the City of Vatican to the pope and continued to recieve support and praises from the pope almost to the end.

That might be useful info for an argument about the Catholic Church.