rape in fiction

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

This miserable fucking sack of vomit had spiked her drink, led her up stairs on the pretence of putting her to bed. And he violently raped her, a 16yo girl who he didn't even know.

OT: Has this reject been visited by a brute squad, beaten with crowbars to the edge of death, and then dumped naked in a Turkish prison?

Who knows?

[Ted C]

This miserable fucking sack of vomit had spiked her drink, led her up stairs on the pretence of putting her to bed. And he violently raped her, a 16yo girl who he didn't even know.

OT: Has this reject been visited by a brute squad, beaten with crowbars to the edge of death, and then dumped naked in a Turkish prison?

Who knows?

I'm a believer in making the punishment exceed the unpleasantness of the crime. I'm still not sure if my suggestion qualifies.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I'm a believer in making the punishment exceed the unpleasantness of the crime. I'm still not sure if my suggestion qualifies.

So am I...

I say it does. But if there's any doubt, there's always my 'ten thousand razor-blade cuts and a dip in salty rubbing alcohol' bit..

[Lord Pounder]

OT: Has this reject been visited by a brute squad, beaten with crowbars to the edge of death, and then dumped naked in a Turkish prison?

Who knows?

I'm a believer in making the punishment exceed the unpleasantness of the crime. I'm still not sure if my suggestion qualifies.

I can't really say what happened to the animal who did it. There is a forum policy on talking about illegal acts. It doesn't matter anyway, i did what i had to and it never made me feel any better.

[Queeb Salaron]

I can't really say what happened to the animal who did it. There is a forum policy on talking about illegal acts. It doesn't matter anyway, i did what i had to and it never made me feel any better.

Good man. ::Pats him on the back::

My pacifism fails when I encounter three types of people: Rapists, child molesters, and people who hurt members of my family. Were I Darth Pounder, this guy would have qualified for all three. That's three times the pain, three times the agony... and three times slower.

The razorblades and salty alcohol bit was good. I like that. Mind if I use it in a story, Ein?

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I can't really say what happened to the animal who did it. There is a forum policy on talking about illegal acts. It doesn't matter anyway, i did what i had to and it never made me feel any better.

Good man. ::Pats him on the back::

My pacifism fails when I encounter three types of people: Rapists, child molesters, and people who hurt members of my family. Were I Darth Pounder, this guy would have qualified for all three. That's three times the pain, three times the agony... and three times slower.

The razorblades and salty alcohol bit was good. I like that. Mind if I use it in a story, Ein?

Seconded on all points!

Sure go ahead! I love seeing some rapist/murderer/asshole get Hannibal-Lectered!

[Queeb Salaron]

Sure go ahead! I love seeing some rapist/murderer/asshole get Hannibal-Lectered!

Ooh! Does that mean after I railgun Twit, I get to eat what's left of his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti?!

And as long as we're on the food torture, mind if I throw some lemon juice and hot sauce into the salty alcohol mix, a la "Swimming with Sharks"?

OT: I always hated the way Anthony Hopkins pronounced the word "chianti." It's supposed to be kee-AHN-tee, not kee-AN-tee.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Sure go ahead! I love seeing some rapist/murderer/asshole get Hannibal-Lectered!

Ooh! Does that mean after I railgun Twit, I get to eat what's left of his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti?!

And as long as we're on the food torture, mind if I throw some lemon juice and hot sauce into the salty alcohol mix, a la "Swimming with Sharks"?

OT: I always hated the way Anthony Hopkins pronounced the word "chianti." It's supposed to be kee-AHN-tee, not kee-AN-tee.

Eh... sure. LOL

Oh, that reminds me! I forgot the lemon juice!!!! And IODINE!!!!!!!!!

[InnerBrat]

If we decide to shoot this asshole, I get dibs after Wong.

Sure!

*hands Queeb a Railgun, a crate of DU Rail Slugs, and a pup tent*

Happy Camping!!

Sorry, but the order of shooting him in the head goes: LadyTevar, SirNitram, Drath Pounder, me, THEN Wong (in order of perosnal nerves he hit)

[Queeb Salaron]

Sorry, but the order of shooting him in the head goes: LadyTevar, SirNitram, Drath Pounder, me, THEN Wong (in order of perosnal nerves he hit)

I'm well aware of this. I'll wait my turn. Just save me a limb or two. I wanna try out this railgun. ::Pets the pretty railgun::

Whoa... was that phallyc?

Cool!

[Mad]

My points are these:
1. Misprotrayal of rape in fiction has negligable, if any effect in the real world. It only effects those who can't differentiate fiction from reality ... and they are already screwed the hell up.
2. The public is MUCH more sensitive to rape than to murder, violence, or anything else comparatively evil. I personally think such a double standard is stupid, but that is just my opinion.

*Turns to section of Intro to Psych textbook on rape*

"The single most used cry of rapists to their victims is 'You know you want it.' And afterward, 'There now, you really enjoyed it, didn't you.'"

"Men who commit date rape often believe they have done nothing wrong. A typical explanation is 'Her words were saying no, but her body was saying yes.'"

But here's where it gets shocking:

To test the hypothesis that stereotyped images contribute to rape, male college students were classified as either high or low in gender role stereotyping. Each student read one of three stories: The first described voluntary intercourse, the second depicted stranger rape, and the third described date rape.

As predicted, college males high in gender role stereotyping were more aroused by the rape stories. ... Moreover, a chilling 44 percent of thos etested indicated they would consider rape--especially if they could be sure of not being caught (Check & Malamuth, 1983).
...
In view of such findings--and the continuing widespread belief that when a woman says no she means yes--it is little wonder that rape occurs every 6 minutes in the United States.

Basically, that study showed that there's a problem where men have misconceptions about rape. Seeing stories that mishandle the realities of rape only serve to reinforce those misconceptions (confirmation bias, where one notices the instances that reinforce the stereotype he or she holds, while ignoring others).

These misconceptions about rape are more prevalent than misconceptions about murder. And that's why, I believe, that there is a supposed double-standard. Basically, when their misconceptions are reinforced, people do get it into their heads that it's okay (hence the common excuses mentioned earlier). Handling murder in a non-negative light won't make the vast majority of people people think it's okay, because they already know that murder is bad. With rape, there are far more misconceptions that can be reinforced.

These misconceptions come about from culture and how things are treated. There are also other social factors, such as sex being more taboo than violence in the United States, but I think my point is pretty clear. I know it might be able to use some work, so if it doesn't make sense, I can try to re-explain it.

[Ignorant twit]

Ah yes, resorting to the popular "Mike Wong doesn't fight fair!" attack. Never mind the fact that you don't actually produce hard evidence of this claim

I see and your evidence that I EVER claimed, "That rape is not as serious a crime as claimed by women. "

I have BLATENTLY said that wether or not pleasure is present is IRRELEVANT.

I don't care if you "fight fair". Insult me, call me names, cast doubt upon my parentage, whatever ... I don't care if you swear like a sailor or talk as antiseptically as Catholic nun. I DO care when you attribute positions to me that I have NEVER and WILL NEVER advocate. It is pathetic to take and claim that I think rape is any less henious because the pleasure response may fire during it.

Since that is exactly what everyone else is saying, why did YOU bring it up as a disagreement, then?

Let us look at Hotfoot's techinical definition of rape:
"Technically, if you enjoy being 'raped', you enjoy rough sex. Hence it ceases to be rape at that point. "

Technically I find that definition to be disturbing, to me rape has always been defined EXCLUSIVELY by nonconsential sex. Enjoyment, pleasure, the victim's attitude and actions (up to the point of giving consent) are IRRELEVANT. If the victim does feel pleasure during the act, say during statutory rape ... IT REMAINS rape.

Tell me do you agree with Hotfoot that if the victim of rape receives pleasure it ceases to be rape?

I am NOT the one who brought up the point.

In other words, you are reiterating your claim that this component of your environment has no real world effect whatsoever. Yet you accuse me of distorting your position!

Did you say, "Of course that part of your environment has no effect "? No you didn't. You decided to be flip and say, "since environment has no effect whatsoever on behavioural patterns ".

That was distortion. I argued that segment of the environment doesn't have an effect, you decided to attack the strawman that the environment itself had no effect.

A claim stated as fact. Try again.

Oh I see I'm supposed to prove that misportroyal of rape doesn't have an effect in the real world I take it your principle of parsimony only applies when its on your side.

You claim there is an effect ... your burden of proof.

Rape is the only crime in which the victim is often portrayed as enjoying the crime, idiot. Since when does anyone write fiction in which the fucking murder victim enjoys being murdered? How many fucking times does someone have to point this out before it sinks into your head?

Often? What type of fiction do you read? Virtually every rape I've read has been either:
1. Under the influence of euphorics or aphrodisiacs.
2. The victim distinctly doesn't enjoy it.

In any event, the victim's PoV is misrepresented, why is this particularly more henious than misrepresenting anything else?

You just said "don't tell me misportrayal has any real world effect", now you backpedal (in the same goddamned post!) and say that you NEVER argued it has no effect. Idiot hatfucker ...

Notice the last bit of the quote you clipped ... WITHOUT PROOF. I realize that it may be hard to read my points and pick up with the phrase is conditional ... that is why it's in all caps.

I don't think misportrayal of rape has real world effects. The principle of parsimony says we should not assume that misportrayal of rape has real world effects without proof. If you have proof to the contrary then we can talk.

Again I don't think that the misportrayal of rape has gross tangible real world effects. I am open to evidence to the contrary, but I don't accept a premise of A causes B without proof.

I offer proof that it is a bad idea to write stories in which rape is portrayed as something the woman enjoyed, because the possibility is clearly there, and that is enough to dissuade any writer who has a sense of ethics. This thread is not about proving the magnitude of the effects, but about deciding whether misportrayal of rape in fiction is good or bad.

Okay for the record, you beleive that a writer shouldn't write about anything that might POSSIBLY have a negative effect in the real world?

Your position (that it doesn't mean shit) is ONLY justifiable if you can prove that it has NO effect. I do not have to establish the size of the effect to show that it's a bad idea to risk it or spread misconceptions (particularly since the geekboys who lap it up generally have ZERO experience with real women, so they have trouble distinguishing fact from reality and leap to bizarre misconceptions such as the notion that a rape victim might enjoy it).

No my position is that it DOESN'T have real world effects and until that is PROVEN to the contrary it is no different than misportrayal of violence or any other evil.

You have a royally fucked-up definition of enjoyment and pleasure, and that is quite frankly the nicest thing I can possibly say to you right now.

Why?
My definition of enjoyment:
The act or state of enjoying.

Definition of enjoy:
To receive pleasure from.

Enjoyment hus is the act or state of receiving pleasure.

As far as pleasure, frankly I define it in neurological terms. Namely because they did some studies back in the day when human use boards were much more lax or nonexistant. They found that yep you could induce pleasure with electrical impulses directly to the brain. The researchers observed pleasure, the subjects observed pleasure. If the neurological response isn't pleasure, then it is the cause of pleasure and a one to one indicator ... for all intents and purposes it can be treated as pleasure. I mean seriously you have patients with biological anhedonia, you correct the problem with drugs, and viola they feel pleasure. If pleasure isn't biochemical in nature, how do we get drugs and electrodes that cause pleasure?

How do you define pleasure?

[Ignorant twit]

I've read this entire thread and while i've made my feeling clear in the HOS i've yet to address it here.

Several years ago my sister was at a party with a friend from her college. They where having a good time and my sister was sober. My sister is a very light drinking and at this party she was convinced by the host to have a becardi breezer. She thought nothing of and and agreed, if only to stop them badgering her to have a drink.

She woke up the next morning with this greasy disgusting excuse for a human being still leaning over the top of her. She had blood all over her knickers and she had teeth and nail marks all over her body. She was in so much pain she though she would pass out. She tried to scream but she couldn't.

This miserable fucking sack of vomit had spiked her drink, led her up stairs on the pretence of putting her to bed. And he violently raped her, a 16yo girl who he didn't even know. My sister has had to undergo all sorts of medical tests because we thought the bastard had given her an STD. She now has no trust for any man not related to her and she still has nightmares about the thing which requires her to go to therepy two to three times a week

According to what you say, Twit, she secretly enjoyed it and she must have been asking for it. You are a reprehenible excuse for a man and i really hope you don't mean it. You are fucking vermin just like the kind of animals who do this kind of thing to innocent people. Your worse because you try and excuse what they did and still do given the chance.

You cannot cure a rapist or a peadophile. They are a cancer on humankind. They never get better when they are caught they merely become more cautious the next time.

Ignorant Twit, never was there such an understatement of a name. Your scum and i wish you a life of torment and hate.

BS. I have NEVER said that EVERY rape victim enjoys it. I HAVE GONE ON RECORD SAYING THE MAJORITY DON'T.

I further have NEVER said that victims who feel pleasure, "asked for it". Allow me to go on record with another statement:

IF THE VICTIM FEELS PLEASURE DURING A NONCONSENTUAL SEX ACT THEY DIDN'T "ASK FOR IT".

I HAVE NEVER EXCUSED THEIR BEHAVIOR. I HAVE GONE ON RECORD THAT THE ONLY REASON NOT TO SHOOT THEM IS BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO HAVE INCENTIVE NOT TO KILL THEIR VICTIMS.

WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM? I HAVE NEVER EXCUSED THE PERPETRATORS OF RAPE.

[Lord Pounder]

So now you try and retract the verbal vomit you spouted in the previous pages of this thread. If your gonna be a scum bag and excuse other scum bags atleast do me the fucking favour of being consistant in what you fucking say.

Are you just here to cause shit, because you seem to say one thing then when you realise what a stupid fucking thing you said you try and retract it by saying thats not what you said.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM?

WHAT THE FLYING FUCK IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION, FUCKTARD!!???!

So now you try to retract your absolutely dumbassed statements you made!? Concession Accepted. Dumbfuck!

See You In Hell.

[Queeb Salaron]

I HAVE NEVER EXCUSED THEIR BEHAVIOR. I HAVE GONE ON RECORD THAT THE ONLY REASON NOT TO SHOOT THEM IS BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO HAVE INCENTIVE NOT TO KILL THEIR VICTIMS.

Why would threatening them make them want to kill their victims? Generally speaking, rapists aren't murderers.

The only reason we don't like your arguments is because you're coming off as a callous, unfeeling bastard. True, you never said that rapists were justified. But you never condemned them, either. And you still haven't condemned them. Which can be misconstrued as advocating for them, especially in this environment. You REALLY need to choose your words better, pal. And you STILL need to explain your position better.

There is a LOT more to pleasure than physical sensation. Rape victims can achieve orgasm, true. But it's not a pleasurable experience, because they're still being raped. Physical pleasure has nothing to do with anything, and, as you pointed out, it is irrelevant. What is not irrelevant, however, is the mental / emotional trauma suffered by the victims, and you have yet to address that topic.

You must choose the way you respond to these posts very carefully, friend. You speak volumes by not saying anything.

[Ignorant twit]

So now you try and retract the verbal vomit you spouted in the previous pages of this thread. If your gonna be a scum bag and excuse other scum bags atleast do me the fucking favour of being consistant in what you fucking say.

Are you just here to cause shit, because you seem to say one thing then when you realise what a stupid fucking thing you said you try and retract it by saying thats not what you said.

Where did I say a victim feeling pleasure EVER justifies the rape? Please tell me that. Show me anywhere I excused scumbags.

I have stated for PAGES that ANYTHING except consent is IRRELEVANT.

[Lord Pounder]

Oh cut the crap. A woman is at a club. She has a few drinks with an attractive man. They go back to his place. He slips her a roofer and she blacks out. She comes to is bound, gagged, and is being screwed six ways to sunday. She, having a B&D fetish, enjoys the sex.

Having never consent she still enjoys it.

In fiction we come to a classic sci-fi/fantasy scene where the victim is drugged with some type of euphoric and enjoys the behavior ... yet never consented to it.

Your words moron. Your blatant appogism for rapists.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

So now you try and retract the verbal vomit you spouted in the previous pages of this thread. If your gonna be a scum bag and excuse other scum bags atleast do me the fucking favour of being consistant in what you fucking say.

Are you just here to cause shit, because you seem to say one thing then when you realise what a stupid fucking thing you said you try and retract it by saying thats not what you said.

Where did I say a victim feeling pleasure EVER justifies the rape? Please tell me that. Show me anywhere I excused scumbags.

I have stated for PAGES that ANYTHING except consent is IRRELEVANT.

Shut the fuck up, asshole! You obviously can't see the dozens of times we pointed out your blatant condoning of non-consensual sex.

You come down to New Orleans while spouting off your feces everywhere and see what happens to you...

Go to Hell! We don't want you or your perverted kind here! WE HATE YOU! GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

[Ignorant twit]

So now you try and retract the verbal vomit you spouted in the previous pages of this thread. If your gonna be a scum bag and excuse other scum bags atleast do me the fucking favour of being consistant in what you fucking say.

Are you just here to cause shit, because you seem to say one thing then when you realise what a stupid fucking thing you said you try and retract it by saying thats not what you said.

Where did I say a victim feeling pleasure EVER justifies the rape? Please tell me that. Show me anywhere I excused scumbags.

I have stated for PAGES that ANYTHING except consent is IRRELEVANT.

Shut the fuck up, asshole! You obviously can't see the dozens of times we pointed out your blatant condoning of non-consensual sex.

You come down to New Orleans while spouting off your feces everywhere and see what happens to you...

Go to Hell! We don't want you or your perverted kind here! WE HATE YOU! GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

Then be nice and one more time show me where I blatantly condoned non-consentual sex.

My original words:
"Hardly. Enjoyment != consent. Just because you take pleasure in something does not make it consential. A person may enjoy taking halucinogens, but if you spike their beer they have not consented to using the drug ... regardless of if they've enjoyed it.".

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

You just be lucky I have something called a Real Life. Obviously a concept completely alien to a turdfucker like you.

[Ignorant twit]

In other words, you can't. It's not like it takes time to read through the previous posts. Thanks for the concession.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

In other words, you can't. It's not like it takes time to read through the previous posts. Thanks for the concession.

Why did I know you'd do that? Oh yes, because you're an unrepentant asshole as well!!! Asshole!

[Ignorant twit]

Curios, you have "a real life" that precludes you from doing something simple like I dunno quoting something that I allegedly said blatantly; yet you are here firing off one liner replies ... and still not willing to quote that which you allege exists.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Curios, you have "a real life" that precludes you from doing something simple like I dunno quoting something that I allegedly said blatantly; yet you are here firing off one liner replies ... and still not willing to quote that which you allege exists.

Probably because EVERYONE ELSE HAS DONE IT AT LEAST FIVE TIMES EACH ALREADY!!!!!!