Rebel Alliance fleet vs. Borg Collective

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-09-05 12:58pm

Just as the Rebel fleet engages hyperdrive en route to
Endor, something happens in hyperspace, harmlessly tossing
the ships hundreds of millions of light years away in a matter
of minutes.

The fleet emerges on the edge of Borg space, on the "line" between
the Beta and Delta Quadrants, circa 2376. Almost immediately, the Rebels encounter a manned Borg probeship. The ship hails the fleet,
but in place of the usual "We're going to assimilate you" spiel, we find the ship is piloted by the rogue/liberated Borg from "Unimatrix Zero,"
with a crew eager to learn about the giant, powerful Mon Cal cruisers.

We learn that the Rebels are anxious to return home, of course,
to destroy Death Star II. They realize that Gen. Solo's strike force would probably be eliminated without support from the fleet, but time is
still of the essence: the DSII will be operational in...oh, say, six weeks.

The liberated Borg ship is in contact with a captured tactical cube, on which we find the George Costanza "Think Tank" dude (assimilated shortly after its encounter with VGR), one of the leaders of the rogue drones. We'll lift the title "Cooperative" from VGR season three to describe the rogue Borg.

George, or whatever Jason Alex. character's name was, has an idea to
get the Rebels home--probably some dimensional rift akin to
how the Borg entered Eight-space. However, he is not willing to share
this information with the Rebels unless they help him exterminate
the "true" Borg.

For the sake of this debate, let's say the Rebels conditionally agree (they'll expect these drones to use some Treknology to try to help them later at Endor). So we have the Rebel fleet, assisted by a few dozen Cooperative combat and support ships, geared up to attack the Collective. The
main target is the primary unicomplex, but it is heavily defended. It
is also expected that, following the assimilation of Think Tank Costanza,
the Borg started using neutronium-based hull "armor" (yeah, yeah,
I know

LOL) on all large ships. (The Think Tank people had apparently mastered this; Seven remarked that "even the Borg" had failed in
attempting as much.)

How should the Rebels proceed? The Cooperative has incomplete
knowledge of Borg space, but they *do* know where most of
the important installations are; e.g., transwarp hubs and unicomplex
systems. They share this information with the Rebels, naturally.

I realize that's a bit complex, but I was sorta thinking out a possible
fan fic I could write. I always wanted to tie in a few of VGR's better
ideas into a SW vs. ST scenario and make them better

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2002-09-05 01:32pm

well if this is the same fleet from episode six and we presume they have moncal crusiers so what do we do well heres my teory use the... CLUSTERBOMBS yep all moncal ships have these but u never see them use this weapen which is damned shame and use this on the collective well big baang here we come

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-09-05 09:33pm

Well, with neutronium, Borg hulls are far stronger, so they Rebel ships lost their largest advantage. How many Borg Cubes are there in this battle? Anyway, Mon Cal shields must be fairly strong, and I don't know who would win, until the advantages of both sides are compared.

Admiral Drason · Post by **Admiral Drason** » 2002-09-05 09:59pm

Rebels fire turbolasers. Borg Go KA BOOM

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-05 10:17pm

Rebels have better tech period. BOOM
I think a Whitestar can seriously fuck up a cube. Thats how much i hate the Borg.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-05 10:27pm

SolidSnake wrote:Rebels have better tech period. BOOM
I think a Whitestar can seriously fuck up a cube. Thats how much i hate the Borg.

Come on, guys, we're starting to seem like SB or Tiger's Claw. A Whitestar does not have the firepower to destroy a cube. While the Rebels undoubtedly do. I know that many of you hate [insert species/race], but this website deals with facts. We do not allow our personal feelings about different universes to interfere with the way that we debate things, or in determining which side would win in a specific scenario.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-09-06 12:52am

With the Neutronium armor, the cubes will be harder to kill. However, IIRC, MC-80's are equipped with Ion cannons. Ergo, disable and good-by warp core. Especially since Borg shields are comparable to Fed shields, and those go down after one MTL shot at best. Fire MTL, then Ion cannon, good-by Borg.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2002-09-06 02:40am

Darth Yoshi wrote:With the Neutronium armor, the cubes will be harder to kill.

Would seem logical enough...but then how many cubes are equipped with the neutronium armor? How long does it take to install, and how many cubes have it as of the beginning of the attack? Or are we simply assuming all cubes upgraded? In that case, the Collective could deploy hundreds of cubes to destroy/assimilate the Rebel fleet. They're willing to deploy hundreds of cubes against a single target (ref: ST:VOY "Hope and Fear").

However, IIRC, MC-80's are equipped with Ion cannons.

Would seem likely they would do damage, but would and could the Borg adapt to them to a point of making them relatively useless?

Ergo, disable and good-by warp core.

You're evidence that Borg cubes use a typical Federation-like warp core? Federation ships are limited by directional use of their engines (ie: they have to face forward to go into warp). Borg vessels are not (ie: "Scorpion", "Best of Both Worlds"). Federation ships do not have transwarp capabilities unless Borg technology has been installed in them. Borg vessels could easily travel across the Milky Way with conventional transwarp drives reaching at least 1800 lt per hour (ref ST:VOY "Dark Frontier").

Especially since Borg shields are comparable to Fed shields,

The E-E can withstand the combined firepower of a Federation fleet for several hours? Perhaps you should clarify the statement. Borg shields have some similar characteristics, yet seem superior. For example, Voyager in ST:VOY "Unimatrix Zero" employed Borg shielding to hold up against a Borg vessel. If Federation and Borg shielding are so similar, employing Borg shielding doesn't make sense, unless it is superior.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2002-09-06 02:41am

Master of Ossus wrote: Come on, guys, we're starting to seem like SB or Tiger's Claw. A Whitestar does not have the firepower to destroy a cube. While the Rebels undoubtedly do. I know that many of you hate [insert species/race], but this website deals with facts. We do not allow our personal feelings about different universes to interfere with the way that we debate things, or in determining which side would win in a specific scenario.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2002-09-06 04:43am

We need to look at a few factors
First, How much time to they have to come up with an attack plan.
Two, what are the enemy's numbers. The Rebels could drop out of hyperspace on top of the collective, and take them by surprise, but if their out numbered twenty to one, it might not bode well for them.

I think for them to be victorious they'ed have to take out key instalations, in a lighting strike, and time the strike so that when the Borg move to defend, the Cooperative shows up, and start attacking other instalations, and now the Borg have to split their defence.

Also another tactic the Rebels could use is hit and fade. Jump in attack, jump away, jump aback at another angle,attack, jump away.....

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-06 07:50am

Problem for the Borg

"Home One"
This ship alone would be SERIOUS trouble for the Borg as its roughly equivlant to 3/4 of an SSD in Power

Depending on whos scalling you use that means they need 200 Cubes and one mintue thirty to take down a shield or 200 cubes and fifty-six mintues eight seconds of strait up firing

Also it should be mentioned that Home One Mounts tons of HTL which means anywhere from 200 Giga-tons way back when to 5 Teratons of Desctructive Damage

Borg Shielding from all accounts seems roughly to be 4-14 Gigatons Strong

You do the Math

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-09-06 11:36pm

Robert Walper wrote: Would seem logical enough...but then how many cubes are equipped with the neutronium armor? How long does it take to install, and how many cubes have it as of the beginning of the attack? Or are we simply assuming all cubes upgraded? In that case, the Collective could deploy hundreds of cubes to destroy/assimilate the Rebel fleet. They're willing to deploy hundreds of cubes against a single target (ref: ST:VOY "Hope and Fear").

Not true. Transporters are stopped by shields and ECM, remember? They can't assimilate jack shit in combat. Borg phasers aren't that much stronger than Feddie phasers. It'll take hundreds of shots to punch through them. Also, while the Rebel crewers aren't as disciplined as stormtroopers, they aren't as tactically braindead as the Borg, and they will be able to stop the Borg, especially since KE shielding is non existant.

Would seem likely they would do damage, but would and could the Borg adapt to them to a point of making them relatively useless?

How? Ion cannons don't seem to operate on frequency, and that's how Borg adapt.

You're evidence that Borg cubes use a typical Federation-like warp core? Federation ships are limited by directional use of their engines (ie: they have to face forward to go into warp). Borg vessels are not (ie: "Scorpion", "Best of Both Worlds"). Federation ships do not have transwarp capabilities unless Borg technology has been installed in them. Borg vessels could easily travel across the Milky Way with conventional transwarp drives reaching at least 1800 lt per hour (ref ST:VOY "Dark Frontier").

My assumption comes from the fact that Voyager can barter with Delta Quadrant groups for parts, with minimal retooling or reverse engineering to make them compatible with Voyager, meaning Star Trek technology is ridiculously similar. Besides, ion cannon disable systems by shorting them out, so without the systems running, the warp core will explode.

The E-E can withstand the combined firepower of a Federation fleet for several hours? Perhaps you should clarify the statement. Borg shields have some similar characteristics, yet seem superior. For example, Voyager in ST:VOY "Unimatrix Zero" employed Borg shielding to hold up against a Borg vessel. If Federation and Borg shielding are so similar, employing Borg shielding doesn't make sense, unless it is superior.

Borg shields are superior in the fact that the Collective automatically adjusts frequencies to render Federation phasers useless.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-09-06 11:38pm

Home One is 3/4 an ECS? That's better than Mon Remonda, Bean.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-07 08:09am

I said an SSD not an ESD