I feel discriminated against...

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-04-30 11:11pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:Damn Christian Right. Do the congressmen's spouses know that their significant other has been cheating on them, since it seems that just about all of them have been sleeping with them.

On the bright side, it didn't state what to pray to, and the ACLU will probably be on it faster than, well, something that gets onto something else really fast.

starved chihuhua on steak.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-04-30 11:12pm

Don't pray, period.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-30 11:16pm

Durran Korr wrote:
It does if the government decided at its founding that religion served a purpose civilly. They decided that religion is a good thing thus it should be allowed to flourish.
No, the government decided that religion does not serve a civil (meaning related to the government) purpose, and that's why we have the establishment clause.

Free Exercise clause. Evryone forgets that there are two clauses in the Amendment. Establishment clause opposes the support of a particular religion.

Free Exercise GAURANTESS that I can worship any religion that I want. It does not allow the Governemnt to RESTRICT religious expression, a pretty fair comment on what the framers think of religion in civil life. And whatever Jefferson and the others beleived, they were wise enough not to let it affect the citizens of their new repulblic when framing the COnsitituion.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-04-30 11:19pm

How about a national atheist day where we all read The Age of Reason and watch Cosmos on TV?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-04-30 11:19pm

Stravo wrote: Free Exercise clause. Evryone forgets that there are two clauses in the Amendment. Establishment clause opposes the support of a particular religion.

Free Exercise GAURANTESS that I can worship any religion that I want. It does not allow the Governemnt to RESTRICT religious expression, a pretty fair comment on what the framers think of religion in civil life. And whatever Jefferson and the others beleived, they were wise enough not to let it affect the citizens of their new repulblic when framing the COnsitituion.

That still doesnt invalidate the point that this is direct PROMOTION of religion rather than leaving it alone....a failure to promote religion would not be the same as restricting it.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-30 11:24pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Stravo wrote: Free Exercise clause. Evryone forgets that there are two clauses in the Amendment. Establishment clause opposes the support of a particular religion.

Free Exercise GAURANTESS that I can worship any religion that I want. It does not allow the Governemnt to RESTRICT religious expression, a pretty fair comment on what the framers think of religion in civil life. And whatever Jefferson and the others beleived, they were wise enough not to let it affect the citizens of their new repulblic when framing the COnsitituion.
That still doesnt invalidate the point that this is direct PROMOTION of religion rather than leaving it alone....a failure to promote religion would not be the same as restricting it.

By denying National Prayer day the argument could be made that they are violating the Free exercise clause.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-30 11:26pm

Stravo wrote:By denying National Prayer day the argument could be made that they are violating the Free exercise clause.

No it couldn't, unless they told people that they are NOT ALLOWED to pray on that day. All we're saying is that telling everyone to pray is an obvious and blatant violation.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-04-30 11:28pm

Stravo wrote: By denying National Prayer day the argument could be made that they are violating the Free exercise clause.

Failure to promote it is not the same as restricting it.....it is doing as they should and staying the hell away from religion....no action is the correct one for the government as regards religion.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-04-30 11:33pm

Here's a link explaining their position.

http://www.nationaldayofprayer.org/aboutndp/history.cfm

History of the National Day of Prayer

Because of the faith of many of our founding fathers, public prayer and national days of prayer have a long-standing and significant history in American tradition. The Supreme Court affirmed the right of state legislatures to open their sessions with prayer in Marsh vs. Chambers (1983).

The National Day of Prayer is a vital part of our heritage. Since the first call to prayer in 1775, when the Continental Congress asked the colonies to pray for wisdom in forming a nation, the call to prayer has continued through our history, including President Lincoln's proclamation of a day of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" in 1863. In 1952, a joint resolution by Congress, signed by President Truman, declared an annual, national day of prayer. In 1988, the law was amended and signed by President Reagan, permanently setting the day as the first Thursday of every May. Each year, the president signs a proclamation, encouraging all Americans to pray on this day. Last year, all 50 state governors plus the governors of several U.S. territories signed similar proclamations.

The National Day of Prayer has great significance for us as a nation. It enables us to recall and to teach the way in which our founding fathers sought the wisdom of God when faced with critical decisions. It stands as a call to us to humbly come before God, seeking His guidance for our leaders and His grace upon us as a people. The unanimous passage of the bill establishing the National Day of Prayer as an annual event, signifies that prayer is as important to our nation today as it was in the beginning.

Like Thanksgiving or Christmas, this day has become a national observance placed on all Hallmark calendars and observed annually across the nation and in Washington, D.C. Last year, local, state and federal observances were held from sunrise in Maine to sunset in Hawaii, uniting Americans from all socio-economic, political and ethnic backgrounds in prayer for our nation. It is estimated that more than two million people attended more than 30,000 observances organized by approximately 40,000 volunteers. At state capitols, county court houses, on the steps of city halls, and in schools, businesses, churches and homes, people stopped their activities and gathered for prayer.

The National Day of Prayer belongs to all Americans. It is a day that transcends differences, bringing together citizens from all backgrounds. Mrs. Shirley Dobson, NDP chairman, reminds us: "We have lost many of our freedoms in America because we have been asleep. I feel if we do not become involved and support the annual National Day or Prayer, we could end up forfeiting this freedom, too."

History Summary

1775 - The first Continental Congress called for a National Day of Prayer.
1863 - Abraham Lincoln called for such a day.
1952 - Congress established NDP as an annual event by a joint resolution, signed into law by President Truman.
1988 - The law was amended and signed by President Reagan, designating the NDP as the first Thursday in May.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-04-30 11:36pm

Appeal to tradition.

The Constitution still doesn't support it.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-05-01 12:15am

Stravo wrote:Free Exercise clause. Evryone forgets that there are two clauses in the Amendment. Establishment clause opposes the support of a particular religion.

Free Exercise GAURANTESS that I can worship any religion that I want. It does not allow the Governemnt to RESTRICT religious expression, a pretty fair comment on what the framers think of religion in civil life. And whatever Jefferson and the others beleived, they were wise enough not to let it affect the citizens of their new repulblic when framing the COnsitituion.

And how would not having a national prayer day restrict your ability to pray to whomever you wish?

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2003-05-01 12:22am

Stravo wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Bush is a delusional moron awash in fundie land. This is a blatent First Amendment violation.
NO, its not. PLease people, seperation of church and state DOES NOT let me repeat this again for those in teh back row, DOES NOT mean that the governement must actively oppose or be hostile to religion. It means that the governemtn cannot SUPPORT a PARTICULAR religion in other words no state sponsored religion.

National Prayer day is not supporting any religion, Buddhists, Shintoes, Muslims, Christians, pagans, animists, shamans, vodoo, Santeria, etc all pray and thus there is no support of ANY religion with this action.

PLease stop thinking that Sepration of church and state means NO to religion.

Except that while National Prayer Day may not claim to support any particular religion, it's clear intent is to support mainstream Christians. Shrub, like his father is ferverently Christian, and those who came up with the idea were also principally Christians. The president who signed it into law was a Christian who seemed to firmly believe we were living in the End Times. And if one thinks for more than a minute that when people are going to pray, they're going to tolerate Muslims, or pagans, or anybody who isn't a mainstream Christian, then I've got oceanfront property in my state I'd like to sell you (and I live in New Mexico . . .)

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-05-01 01:31am

As much as I love this country, I really have a problem with "prayer day," having money that says "in God we trust," and having ASHCROFT in office.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-05-01 02:10am

Is this just as bad, or even worse as an annual day celebrating a political movement which has killed millions?

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2003-05-01 03:02am

Darth Wong wrote:I hereby move that for all the atheists, May 1 is now National Darwin Day! Make up posters!! Urge people to thank Darwin for enlightening us from the darkness of intellectual oppression!! GIVE THANKS AND PRAY TO DARWIN!!!!

After all, "National Prayer Day" doesn't actually say who we're supposed to pray to ...

No, don't do that. Fundamentalists already say that Darwin is worshipped as a prophet, and that belief in evolution is no different than religious faith.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-01 03:30am

They could have avoided this WHOOOOLE mess if they just called it "National Minute of Silence Day" or something similiar. How about "Reflection Day?"

Speaking of which, I think I'll go pray to whoever soon...Just for kicks...Perhaps my good friend Set could use some attention?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-05-01 03:43am

UltraViolence83 wrote:They could have avoided this WHOOOOLE mess if they just called it "National Minute of Silence Day" or something similiar. How about "Reflection Day?"

The it comes off very PC, and insulting to all who see past it.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-05-01 03:50am

I absolutely and most vehemently HATE political correctness, though I sometimes see a time when it has to be used in this ultra-liberal vs. insane conservative world. Necessary evil. The idea of a govenmentally-edicted day for prayer isn't very constitutional, and I sure as hell do not like either the religious fundamentalists or the anti-religion fanatics, but this is as close as you can get to a compromise considering the former control this country.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-05-01 04:33am

Bah! May 1st is random urban violence day! Smash int he church windows! (pretend you thought it was a Starbucks)

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-05-01 04:45am

innerbrat wrote:Bah! May 1st is random urban violence day! Smash int he church windows! (pretend you thought it was a Starbucks)

Now THERE's an idea I can get behind!

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-01 06:22am

innerbrat wrote:Bah! May 1st is random urban violence day! Smash int he church windows! (pretend you thought it was a Starbucks)

It's generally a good idea not to be in London and wearing a suit on that day too unless you enjoy a good Molotov cocktail and watercannon.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-05-01 06:29am

PRAY TO CTHULHU! the only "god" who will eat you if u make him mad.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-01 06:46am

Darth Fanboy wrote:PRAY TO CTHULHU! the only "god" who will eat you if u make him mad.

What's his stance on calamari dishes?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-05-01 07:04am

I am generous and therefore will permit you all to worship me in my Star-godness.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-01 07:20am

NecronLord wrote:I am generous and therefore will permit you all to worship me in my Star-godness.

Uh, yay?