Chiss in Refugee (possible spoilers)

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-02 04:01pm

I'm about halfway through this book and the kleenex leavings over the Chiss are already pretty substantial. But even with that, it does seem that the authors are acknowledging the Chiss' weaknesses.

The book seems to be acknowledging the fact that the Chiss wouldn't stand a chance in hell against the Yuuzhan Vong. The Chiss have deluded themselves into thinking they have successfully resisted Vong invasion because they defeated a Vong task force which was most likely very small, and not even adequate to overcome the Chiss' pathetically tiny military forces. If the Vong had unleashed the kind of force that they unleashed on Bastion on the Chiss instead, they would have gone down very quickly. Danni Quee states that the Vong are more than capable of wiping out the Chiss on a whim, and based on her testimony, what we know of the Chiss' weaknesses, and what we know of the Vong's strength, I believe this.

One particularly ridiculous item; the Chiss keep their records of exploration of the Unknown Regions in books. That's right, books. In a Galaxy where the Jedi could instantly get information on virtually any planet within the much larger territory of the Old Republic, the Chiss use books. Rather than at least transferring their vast amounts of data into computers, they keep it all in books, forcing anyone who wants to find out about anything to have to scour through massive books for hours on end. They claim that other methods of data storage are unreliable and prone to being destroyed by ice storms (Csilla is an ice world), but why not just keep the original records intact and develop a database for easily accessing the vast amounts of information contained in the books? And how exactly are ice storms going to destroy digital data? The Chiss Expeditionary library is of lower quality than most late American 1990's libraries. The saddest thing is that the authors pass this marvel of inefficiency off as a good thing.

We also see more examples of Chiss arrogance as they treat emissaries of governments capable of wiping them from the face of the Galaxy (they are rude to both Republic and Remnant agents) with disdain and contempt.

More to come as I read.

[edit]

On page 249, Wyn Fel states that one of the primary motivations among the Chiss preventing an alliance with the Galaxy Proper and the Remnant to fight the Vong is fear of being corrupted by foreigners. Disgusting.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-05-02 06:12pm

You can't hack a book.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-05-02 06:35pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:You can't hack a book.

Give me a break. I guess that's why the governments of the world today use books for storing all their data.

Oh, and is your location in reference to Comedy Central's awesome movie?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-02 06:35pm

But hacking wasn't considered a concern for the Chiss. Ice storms was the reason. Furthermore, has hacking ever been raised as a concern anywhere within SW? Encryption make very well make it a non-issue.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-02 06:39pm

Tell me why they can't keep, oh, I don't know, SELF CONTAINED BACKUPS?!

For God's sake, this is the galaxy where the plans for a moon sized battlestation can be put on a floppy.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-05-02 06:42pm

I know I know but with their paranoia you can't just rule it out.

Ice stgorms are awfully shitty for electronics though but you honestly would think SW level tech had a way around it.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-05-02 06:46pm

Robert Treder wrote:
Darth Fanboy wrote:You can't hack a book.
Give me a break. I guess that's why the governments of the world today use books for storing all their data.

Oh, and is your location in reference to Comedy Central's awesome movie?

-Im talking about the Chiss, a homogenous species known for paranoia and isolationist behavior, not our own governments who in this case seem to be more rational (yes I disagree with the Chiss practice of using books)

-And Yes, thats where I derive the location. Maybe I'll change it to "Behind the staXXX"

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-02 07:17pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:I know I know but with their paranoia you can't just rule it out.

MAKE A THOUSAND COPIES!

Ice stgorms are awfully shitty for electronics though but you honestly would think SW level tech had a way around it.

Ice Storms are the most shittiest excuse ever.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-05-02 09:31pm

Who knows, maybe they were lying out the ass to the Skywalkers because they really didn't want to be helpful? Maybe the real archive was fifty feet from their landing point, and the Chiss were playing 'fuck with the Jedi'

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-02 09:37pm

consequences wrote:Who knows, maybe they were lying out the ass to the Skywalkers because they really didn't want to be helpful? Maybe the real archive was fifty feet from their landing point, and the Chiss were playing 'fuck with the Jedi'

Unlikely. Near the end of the book, the attitude towards the Jedi changes, so the Chiss would be willing to allow the Jedi to access their computers, if they did indeed have them.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-02 10:20pm

And by the way, Illuminatus, in case you read this, Refugee confirms that the Chiss do in fact have clawcraft. It doesn't state whether they have the navigational computers that we know Jag had added to his, however.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-02 11:40pm

Dark Journey was quite specific--the navicomputer was added, and the hyperdrive, sublight engines, and weapons systems were heavily upgraded.

Just as I said--technologically backward xenophobes.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-02 11:47pm

They're awful diplomats, also; treating the founding hero of the New Republic like a subhuman won't earn you any brownie points from the most powerful government in the Galaxy.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-05-03 12:10am

Durran Korr wrote:They're awful diplomats, also; treating the founding hero of the New Republic like a subhuman won't earn you any brownie points from the most powerful government in the Galaxy.

The Chiss are quite fortunate that they never hosted a state visit from the Galactic Emperor or Darth Vader. Chiss hospitality might very well have resulted in an exponential increase in surface temperature on Csilla, courtesy of a kilometre-and-a-half-long, ashen-white wedge of Imperial attitude adjustment.

Publius

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-03 12:14am

Books for reliability? WHAT IN FUCKING HELL? I guess they never have fires and paper never decays. Maybe etching information into durasteel plates and burying them in a bunker as an emergency measure in case someone slagged the planet could make sense. But this is quite possibly a new level of EU author stupidity.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-03 12:21am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Books for reliability? WHAT IN FUCKING HELL? I guess they never have fires and paper never decays. Maybe etching information into durasteel plates and burying them in a bunker as an emergency measure in case someone slagged the planet could make sense. But this is quite possibly a new level of EU author stupidity.

It may have been just a plot device in order to keep the crew on Csilla for a longer period of time than they would have been otherwise. A stupid one, too.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-05-03 12:59am

Come on, maybe 'Fuck with the Jedi' is the official Chiss sport.
And the books could be made out of an advanced tachyonic alloy, using gravimetric binding energy to induce a quantum flux state that- wait, wrong forum, sorry.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-03 01:02am

Darkstar?

I wouldn't put it past them. They're backwards enough to do something so stupid.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-05-04 12:15am

Is this book fanfiction or something? Because Zahn's upcoming books deal with the Chiss contacting Luke about wreckage they've found from the Outbound Flight project...

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-05-04 12:25am

Lord Poe wrote:Is this book fanfiction or something? Because Zahn's upcoming books deal with the Chiss contacting Luke about wreckage they've found from the Outbound Flight project...

Its the second installment of the Force Heretic Trilogy. NJO. So yeah its like a fanfic, only with people who can't write half the time.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-05-04 07:16pm

Do they ever explain why Thrawn agreed to wipe out the Outbound Flight and what had Parck so scared about the Jedi that he saw no wrong in wiping them out?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-04 07:27pm

Lord Poe wrote:Is this book fanfiction or something? Because Zahn's upcoming books deal with the Chiss contacting Luke about wreckage they've found from the Outbound Flight project...

So?

The Chiss do not like outsiders. They are xenophobes. There must be something left from the Outbound Flight that they feel is worth making the Jedi deal with--rather than themselves.

It could be some Chiss outcasts. Afterall, Stalinists need their own gulags. And the Chiss DO exiles anyone to uncolonized shitholes without help (see: leaving them to die) who refuses to follow the party line.

Trytostaydead wrote:Do they ever explain why Thrawn agreed to wipe out the Outbound Flight and what had Parck so scared about the Jedi that he saw no wrong in wiping them out?

Thrawn probably thought that racially inferior scum like the Outbound Flight needed to be eliminated as soon as they were found, whereas Chiss dictates said that other racially inferior scum (such as Palpatine's strike force) needed to be intercepted after they made an act of war.

Observe the following.

Thrawn attacks and destroys Palpatine's strike force. The Chiss ruling families have no qualm. Thrawn is a commander in the Chiss Expansionary Defense Force. The Chiss do not believe in pre-emptive strikes.

He captures Kinman Dorianna. He convinces him to attack the Outbound Flight. Thrawn kills them all. The ruling families are apalled (Thrawn had minders that followed him about and kept tabs on his ideological purity, according to Gamer 5). They exile Thrawn to some shithole, probably to die--but they love their own blood too much to outright execute fellow Chiss for failure. Afterall, Thrawn would not have terminated Cris Petersen, had he been a Chiss.

I thus believe the following:

The Chiss believe any penetration of their territory is an act of war. Thus Thrawn slaughters Dorianna's force without it being pre-emptive.

Dorianna explains the Thrawn that the Outbound Flight carries dangerous Jedi with supernatural powers is bound for Chiss space. Thrawn waits at the edge of Chiss space and slaughters the Outbound Flight before the could cross the border. This is technically viewed as pre-emptive strike, so Thrawn is promptly exiled.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-05-04 08:14pm

Lord Poe wrote:Is this book fanfiction or something? Because Zahn's upcoming books deal with the Chiss contacting Luke about wreckage they've found from the Outbound Flight project...

Concidering FH I had the Empire with like 10 ISDs, it's worse then FF...

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-04 08:43pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Concidering FH I had the Empire with like 10 ISDs, it's worse then FF...

10 ISDs and an SSD defending Coruscant.

That's over 10% of their fleet resources used in one part of one battle.

There could've been another fleet holding off another pincer (like Star By Star) or denying reinforcements or en route.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-05-06 05:04am

I'm betting the Chiss are such magnificent bastards that they have a central computer library, but forced the offworlders to use a book library.

I thought it was funny as hell, and it would be very in line with who they are. Proud, strong, and arrogant to the core.