X-Men seen

[neoolong]

Well, in Nature the most elaborately decorated and unique male is often selected by teh female to mate. Now sometimes this can mean the male is also the most powerful, take Peacocks for instance. As with most all males they have the most beautiful body unlike the female (it's odd for humans) but if their long, flowing tail feathers make them appetizing meals for Tigers then they're useless, they need to be able to fly away from predators so there is a cut off limit with looks it would seem.

Same instance can occur with deer, if two males want a mate then they go through the standard howling patterns to determine just how strong one another is from a distance. Once that stage is over, they go into parallel walks, sizing one another up physically before finally going to work and fighting. The one that leaves first is the loser and has to find another mate if he isn't killed in the process.

It varies from species to species, maybe in humans sexual selection will fall down to looks more than practicality as with peacocks, provided those humans aren't killed off by the more powerful ones that look like the backside of a rhino.

Yes, but in terms of where mutations are in the X-Men Universe, who do you think a woman would rather sleep with, someone that looks like Angel(Archangel), or Nightcrawler.

Hence my Peacock analogy.

Yes, but looks don't determine ability in the case of mutation. Peacocks need both. That case isn't necessarily true for mutants.

But if a full blown war occured they may not have a choice once all the prettyboys with crap powers succumb to the big bad ugly mothers with uber powers.

That is true. We aren't at that point yet though.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I want all the male mutants to go kaput and all the females to be Xaviered to love me.

[Mark S]

Well making Ice is hardly up there as a kickarse power, and what exactly is the survival advantage of being magnetic, or not being able to open your eye's in a natural environment? It's not the powers, it's how strong they are and what the people involved do with them. Mind you Vomit boy ould have been a laugh.

The greatest evolutionary advantage would be Fertility Man. Somebody who sprays huge pheremone traces around himself, attracts women in droves, and has a ridiculously high sperm count and motility. Mind you, it would be difficult to incorporate this man into a movie without losing that PG-13 rating.

The Kavorka!

[Mark S]

Quite violent given the 12A rating it got, though no real blood or anything.

He even used "bub" more.

Thing is, in the comics and the cartoons i've never seen him kill anyone with his claws before. Mind you i haven't read that many of the comics.

That's why when he went postal on those spec-ops guys I was surprised he actually stabbed them and cut them to ribbons, I expected the normal comic book idea of cutting the weapons up and getting them to run off.

That's why most kiddies cartoons have funky laser weapons instead of true guns because a zap and a singe is a lot more pleasant to a supersonic slug of lead blasting a hole through your enemy.

He does some hacking a slashing in the comic. Though it's usually more implied than actually shown with graphic blood-spraying action. In fact, if I recall correctly, special ops people hacked up by Wolverine getting rebuilt with cybernetics is how the Reavers were created. We can only hope we see them in the next movie I guess.

[Aeolus]

Well making Ice is hardly up there as a kickarse power, and what exactly is the survival advantage of being magnetic, or not being able to open your eye's in a natural environment? It's not the powers, it's how strong they are and what the people involved do with them. Mind you Vomit boy ould have been a laugh.

Rob, did you just think about what you said? Two very big reasons as to why the first world is where it is is because of our ability to use the laws of thermodynamics and electromagnetism to our advantage. The fact that Magneto and Iceman can do these things without any kind of machinery or even a noticeable amount of work gives them a definitive survival advantage.

How? does it help them individually, can you give solid examples of how this would help in and of itself? Iceman can make Ice cubes, this is hardly the be all and end all of survival powers. What competitive edge does it give him? Magnus was nearly killed for exhibiting his powers, and before he pushed himself and increased his powers (through outside means) he strained to lift anything heavier than a gun. It was no better than having hands and not a survival trait.

Telepathy (if it could be controlled) gives a decided advantage, as does teleportation, or becoming invunerable, motile steel, and contrlling the weather is a big plus, as is a healing ability, but not all the ones in the films or the comics are anything close to useful outside of crimefighting in sctrictly controlled comicbook settings.

I think Bobby's little ice wall was a rather impressive survival trait.

[Aeolus]

There actually was a "vomit boy" in one of the X-books.

Zeitgeist

The character is deceased though.

Natural selection in action, folks.

Of course sexual selection would also contribute since even if these useless mutants did survive, I doubt anyone would breed with them, useful and useless attributes are worthless if they aren't passed on.

The powers themselves are not inheritable..The powers/abilities the "X" gene gives you are sort of random.

[Anarchist Bunny]

I'm pissed off at how obvious they made the Pheonix thing. I saw it at the missile scene(and kicked myself for not spoting it at "the dreams") and was confirmed by the Cyclops/Jean fight at the Dam, I think they just went to far in pointing out something was up with Jean when she was engulfed in flams before the water overran her.

Also I loved the fight scenes in the movie, I hope the DVD has more of Special Ops Kabobing. Mystique giving the finger to the marine guys in their base before she slithered into the control room was halarious. Colossus looked cool as hell, and I hope to seem him more in the next movie, and I would like to see Hank as Beast.

What I didn't like about it, well Wolverine getting totally and utterly emasculated by Yuriko... I'll probly think of something else later.

[Rob Wilson]

How? does it help them individually, can you give solid examples of how this would help in and of itself? Iceman can make Ice cubes, this is hardly the be all and end all of survival powers.

The ability to disrupt the operation of biological and mechanical functions is certainly a plus. While it's a flagrant violation of the second law of thermodynamics, Iceman can simply remove energy from a system at will.

Except he doesn't, he uses energy, but doesn't draw it from the source into himself to power the cold effect - otherwise he'd collapse with a fever everytime he used his power - he'd be the heat exchanger at the back of a fridge and that doesn't happen. Somehow he effects the removal of energy from a system but this is shown to be at the cost of energy from himself.

What competitive edge does it give him? Magnus was nearly killed for exhibiting his powers, and before he pushed himself and increased his powers (through outside means) he strained to lift anything heavier than a gun. It was no better than having hands and not a survival trait.

Hands and coordination develop over time; the same is true for mutant powers, apparently. With practice, Magneto attained more precise control and more ability to affect magnetic fields, just like a body builder does with his muscles and just like an artist does with his hands. The fact that the powers have to develop doesn't mean that they're not survival advantages.

Again no, in the early history of the X-men magnus has his powers boosted by several levels of magnitude by the High Evolutionary (ironic huh?), though Magnus was made to believe it was a small colony of aliens tha did it (I haven't a clue why ), then later in a stint in the Savage Land, he gets bumped up again, by the HE, though this time not having a false memory implanted.

At best his natural powers would have allowed him to lift a kilo for a short while at a time and at a strain to himself.

Telepathy (if it could be controlled) gives a decided advantage, as does teleportation, or becoming invunerable, motile steel, and contrlling the weather is a big plus, as is a healing ability, but not all the ones in the films or the comics are anything close to useful outside of crimefighting in sctrictly controlled comicbook settings.

If Iceman was dropped into a forest and forced to live off the land, he'd be able to refrigerate his own food, freeze predators in their tracks and a host of other things that would give him a giant survival advantage. Magneto in that same setting probably wouldn't be as well off. However, in an urban environment, he has a big advantage.

Back to Icemans energy problems, to keep something frozen he has to constantly maintain the freeze or it melts. This is a drain on his energies, and indeed in the comic world Bobby was second only to Wally West for snack consumption as he liked to use his powers poorly and was nearly always drained after a fight. In the woods this is a bad trait, using up more energy than you can consume is not the way to succeed in a hunting environment. And as pointed out Magnus was a low powered mutant before enhancement - infact when first introduced Charles was more concerned about the mind than the power, and was astonished at how powerful Magnus had become in the period since he had seen him last. If not for the HE fucking around Polaris would have been the top Mutant Magnet, and she wasn't too hot until an externally provided power boost either.

[Rob Wilson]

I think Bobby's little ice wall was a rather impressive survival trait.

Did you notice he had to constantly feed energy in to prevent it from melting, and that it was visibly tiring him over time? Not a real advantage.

[Rob Wilson]

He does some hacking a slashing in the comic. Though it's usually more implied than actually shown with graphic blood-spraying action. In fact, if I recall correctly, special ops people hacked up by Wolverine getting rebuilt with cybernetics is how the Reavers were created. We can only hope we see them in the next movie I guess.

Damn they were funny, but you would need Pierce to create them and that requires the Hellfire Club, and Jason Wyngarde is not an option anymore for creating the Black Queen (no Famke in a Basque ).

Still I was quite startled when Wolvie just out and skewered the guy in the kitchen, right off the bat, no hesitation. I really wasn't expecting that in the film, and it was better for it.

BTW can a MOD add (SPOILERS) to this thread title as they have cropped in. Cheers.

[neoolong]

There actually was a "vomit boy" in one of the X-books.

Zeitgeist

The character is deceased though.

Natural selection in action, folks.

Of course sexual selection would also contribute since even if these useless mutants did survive, I doubt anyone would breed with them, useful and useless attributes are worthless if they aren't passed on.

The powers themselves are not inheritable..The powers/abilities the "X" gene gives you are sort of random.

They may become that way over time. If there are similarities in genetic structure of certain types of powers, I think it could be possible for powers in certain types to be passed to children. Something like eventually telepathic mutants having telepathic children.

Of course, that's just a guess of mine of what could be possible.

[Rob Wilson]

Ok some general comments on the film :

It was very good, the action was nicely handled, the story moved along well, and the plotholes were not glaring.


Now possible Spoilers, incase anyones stumbled this far without hitting any and until the Spoiler tag gets added to the thread.
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The cameo's were good for the most part, Peter was damn near spot on character-wise, and lookswise, though his art was a lacking.

What the hell happened to Kitty and Jubilee? Kitty gets a blink and you'll miss her cameo, and Jubilee gets more screen time but hardly anything to do! Kitty could have been pivotal in Alkali base against the doors and entering Cerebro 2. And why the hell wasn't Jubilee showing some gumption and starting her own fireworks display against the Soldiers in the mansion?

And not having Kitty there to help others cope just felt wrong. Maybe there are cut scene's of the kids on the run with Kitty helping keep the other kids calm, while Peter does his guardian thing some more.

How the hell did Artie get a cameo, yet no sign of Leech? And wasn't Artie's abilities some form of Techno-lego manipulation? How did he get a Cameo, and yet no Psylocke, Angel, or even Jamie Maddox or Guido?

Who the hell was the Remote control kid? A nascient Gamesmaster? A reimagining of Warlock? It was cool that the tranq that zzz'ed everyone else left him conscious but with a tranqed body though?

Anyone else find it funny that Jason Wyngarde got his surname chang, but was wheeled everywhere by Peter Wyngarde the actor? ... no just me then

Why did the Prof not snap out of it when they took off the inhibitor headpiece, he was without it for a long time and yet never pushed Jason out of his mind.

I like the physical failsafe Styker had built into the Cerebro 2, the layout of the panels meant it was impossible for Charles to try and hit humans instead of mutants, either by accident or on purpose (though Charles would never try on purpose, Stryker couldn't see him like that).

A lot of people left the cinema asing why Iceman didn't simply freeze the lake... did they not see the size of the water coming in? Nor notice that putting up that wall in the mansion left him physically drained? It would be like using your fridges motor to try and freeze the Niagara Waterfall!

I loved the expression on Logans face when he realises Yuriko has the same base power as himself, and the "oh shit." line made everyone in the cinema chuckle.

Nice continuity from the first film, Jean and Storm are aware of teleporters as was shown in the basketball scene in the first movie.

Good characterisation on the Controlled Kurt and the uncontrolled Kurt. With a mission and no emotions, he was ruthless and awe inspiringly effective. As a human being, he was uncertain and hesitant in his powers use.

Loved the Profs freezeframing everyone, including the indignant "Are you still there?" on the mobile in the background, an the wavering of the freezed people to show it was a physical and mental thing not 'magic' or trickery.

Quelle surprise, Halle Berry gets a bigger part. I like Storm, but halle plays her so woodenly, it grates. this woman can act so why deaden the character to that degree? She's aloof, not a log!

As unbeleivably farfetched and wrong as it was, I loved Magneto's escape.

Apparently no ones heard of toughened ballistic plastics, when constructing an escape-proof prison made of plastic, and containing a man who has super-powered and superstrong supporters.

The Bobby greeting Logan bit was good, poor boy geting all defensive. hehehehe.

X3 should be interesting. I'll doubtless add to this later.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

- As expected, not a single proper use of word 'evolution'.

Indeed. Where are the mutants who develop mutations that don't result in a survival advantage? Where's Diarrhea Boy?

Well, mutations that don't confer a survival advantage either do nothing at all for the individual, make them easier to catch and kill, or just kill them outright. As a result, the mutants you'd tend to see are the ones who get some sort of advantage, while not having to pay for it by being dead.

[Rob Wilson]

Well, mutations that don't confer a survival advantage either do nothing at all for the individual, make them easier to catch and kill, or just kill them outright. As a result, the mutants you'd tend to see are the ones who get some sort of advantage, while not having to pay for it by being dead.

My favourite example being Self-imolation boy, or a mutant who can change their blood to arsenic throughout their entire body at will.

Of course really stupid power would be someone that destroys everything they see when they open their eyes. Does Scott have ruby-quartz lined eyesockets and eyelids?

[neoolong]

Are you talking about that guy in the Brotherhood comic? I thought the blood turned into some explosive thing, not just arsenic.

[Rob Wilson]

Are you talking about that guy in the Brotherhood comic? I thought the blood turned into some explosive thing, not just arsenic.

They were made up examples, as a joke to stress the point about one use powers killing the user.

And the Explosive blood guy was an acolyte wasnt he? It was around that time I stopped reading the X-men as there were too many titles, but the acolytes had a huuuuuge roster of mutations, not all of them the worlds best.

[neoolong]

He was in a limited run series called The Brotherhood.

His power was that his blood was explosive. If you cut him, his blood would explode. It was a bit time delayed, but basically if he started bleeding enough, it would kill him by blowing him into little bits.

Not exactly the most useful of powers.

[Rob Wilson]

He was in a limited run series called The Brotherhood.

His power was that his blood was explosive. If you cut him, his blood would explode. It was a bit time delayed, but basically if he started bleeding enough, it would kill him by blowing him into little bits.

Not exactly the most useful of powers.

Wasn't there a guy whose blood turned to fire or explosive in the acolytes? At the end of my reading run on X-men there were that many spit and cough appearances from new powered mutants it was impossible to remember who was who.

[Joe Momma]

Of course really stupid power would be someone that destroys everything they see when they open their eyes. Does Scott have ruby-quartz lined eyesockets and eyelids?

Scott's mutation would have been a lot more useful, but he suffered a head injury as a child that damaged the part of his brain controlling his optic blasts (at least in the comics, I don't think it was addressed in either movie).

-- Joe Momma

[Rob Wilson]

Of course really stupid power would be someone that destroys everything they see when they open their eyes. Does Scott have ruby-quartz lined eyesockets and eyelids?

Scott's mutation would have been a lot more useful, but he suffered a head injury as a child that damaged the part of his brain controlling his optic blasts (at least in the comics, I don't think it was addressed in either movie).

When did that happen? Was it a a recent retcon?
His powers never existed until his puberty in the comics. He was orphaned along with Alex when they both leapt out of a crashing plane, and Scott suffered mild amnesia, whilst his brother was taken away and enthralled by the Living Pharoah/Monolith. I don't remember anything about his losing an ability to control his blasts - he was at Xaviers in the first place to learn how to do that.

[neoolong]

He was in a limited run series called The Brotherhood.

His power was that his blood was explosive. If you cut him, his blood would explode. It was a bit time delayed, but basically if he started bleeding enough, it would kill him by blowing him into little bits.

Not exactly the most useful of powers.

Wasn't there a guy whose blood turned to fire or explosive in the acolytes? At the end of my reading run on X-men there were that many spit and cough appearances from new powered mutants it was impossible to remember who was who.

I don't know. I never read that part of the comics.

[neoolong]

In the original script, Scott's abilities manifested in a bathroom at his prom.

[Ghost Rider]

When did that happen? Was it a a recent retcon?
His powers never existed until his puberty in the comics. He was orphaned along with Alex when they both leapt out of a crashing plane, and Scott suffered mild amnesia, whilst his brother was taken away and enthralled by the Living Pharoah/Monolith. I don't remember anything about his losing an ability to control his blasts - he was at Xaviers in the first place to learn how to do that.

Enormous weirded out sorta redo.

Since they never delved much into how...and they had Scott's parent taken away by Aliens(the Shi'ar) they went and did an origin where he saved him and Alex's lives by inadvertantly using his blasts.

Okay...since I have some energy here's the new revised since the Phoenix times of Scott's history.

Blah-blah...Mr Sinister wanted uber mutant...Summers DNA was big thing(I'm not going into th rest...need sleep...if question PM me )

Well Shi'ar attack Summers plane.

Scott and Alex thrown from plane with one parachute...parachute fails Scott uses Eye beams to cushion fall.

Because of this his damages brain because he wasn't ready.

And that's the story of Scott's eye problems.

[Joe Momma]

Scott's mutation would have been a lot more useful, but he suffered a head injury as a child that damaged the part of his brain controlling his optic blasts (at least in the comics, I don't think it was addressed in either movie).

When did that happen? Was it a a recent retcon?

Yes and no.

His powers never existed until his puberty in the comics. He was orphaned along with Alex when they both leapt out of a crashing plane, and Scott suffered mild amnesia,

When the idea was first introduced, it was the same head trauma that gave Scott partial amnesia that also damaged the brain section controlling his optic blasts, though it would be years later as a teenager before the actual power emerged. I don't recall off-hand when this was introduced, but it was quite a while back.

Noting one of the other posts, though, that's been retconned even further recently to the damage being caused by the early use of said beams.

-- Joe Momma

[Joe Momma]

I think Bobby's little ice wall was a rather impressive survival trait.

Did you notice he had to constantly feed energy in to prevent it from melting, and that it was visibly tiring him over time? Not a real advantage.

The energy he expends may not make a great advantage but it's still an advantage in that it gives him options others don't have. Lifting heavy weights can be tiring but that doesn't make being strong enough to lift more than others a disadvantage.

-- Joe Momma
Not that being strong is a be-all/end-all advantage, but it was the simplest analogy I could think of...