[STGOD-ITA] Interstellar Trade Alliance - official thread

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-02 12:31pm

3rd Impact wrote:To add something: The Outworlds Alliance is now a member of the Anti Slavery Alliance.

Then the ASE supports your entrance into the ITA.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-05-02 01:47pm

Spyder wrote:Alright then, membership requests

1 Raians
Yay:
Floaters
Minmatar

2 Republic of Tho'a-hal
Yay:
Floaters
Minmatar
Asgard

3 Outworlds Alliance
Yay:
Floaters
Minmatar

4 Mensia-Dorian Hegemony
Yay:
Minmatar
Asgard

Quote this post and cast your votes (Also include your Empire name when you're voting, it's getting hard to tell who's who)

Yea, yea, yea, yea.

FBHthelizardmage · Post by **FBHthelizardmage** » 2003-05-02 02:17pm

The New Nation of Whats Left's application for membership seems to have gotten lost.

could we resubmit?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-02 03:48pm

FBHthelizardmage wrote:The New Nation of Whats Left's application for membership seems to have gotten lost.

could we resubmit?

Done

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-02 04:33pm

Spyder wrote:
First point: The Asgard's offer was "support my position and I will support yours" not "support my position or bad things will happen to you". Therefor it is not extortion.

Second point: Slavery is an abomination in the face of free trade, trade sanctions against Empires that still practise slavery is a powerful message that such practises will not be tolerated by the enlightened members of the trading community.

First Point: It was more like: "Support my position and I will let you in, you don't you have one half of a Veto against you."

Second Point: Like the UN sanctions against Iraq was a Powerful and Effective method of showing how malignant dictatorship will not be tollerated by the Nations of the World?
And you ignored my point that this action would effectivley initiate a war between me and a neighbor, being so costly that it would effectivley remove me as a superior power. If you are going to pass this act at least give me time to re-work troops over to my Border with the NRE.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-02 04:56pm

Second Point: Like the UN sanctions against Iraq was a Powerful and Effective method of showing how malignant dictatorship will not be tollerated by the Nations of the World?

His Imperial Highness is a sane man, with far fewer delusions of grandeur than the 20th century fascist Saddam Hussein had.

And you ignored my point that this action would effectivley initiate a war between me and a neighbor, being so costly that it would effectivley remove me as a superior power. If you are going to pass this act at least give me time to re-work troops over to my Border with the NRE.

This action will NOT initiate a war between you and the NRE. You are free to vote against sanctions (as I believe you have.) It won't be your fault. In fact, I am sure the NRE will prefer leaving you unharmed, as you are effectively their only supporter in the ITA. You are an important tool to the Roman throne. They won't declare war on you.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-02 07:55pm

And you ignored my point that this action would effectivley initiate a war between me and a neighbor, being so costly that it would effectivley remove me as a superior power. If you are going to pass this act at least give me time to re-work troops over to my Border with the NRE.

We regret that you have chosen to ally with such a power. The Asgard do not want war or any armed conflict but we make our stand based on principle and will not back down.

We hope that you reconsider your alliance with the NRE if they are truly as unstable and belligerent as you fear. There are many nations here that would welcome an alliance with your nation.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-05-02 08:18pm

Straha wrote:
Spyder wrote:
First point: The Asgard's offer was "support my position and I will support yours" not "support my position or bad things will happen to you". Therefor it is not extortion.

Second point: Slavery is an abomination in the face of free trade, trade sanctions against Empires that still practise slavery is a powerful message that such practises will not be tolerated by the enlightened members of the trading community.
First Point: It was more like: "Support my position and I will let you in, you don't you have one half of a Veto against you."

Second Point: Like the UN sanctions against Iraq was a Powerful and Effective method of showing how malignant dictatorship will not be tollerated by the Nations of the World?
And you ignored my point that this action would effectivley initiate a war between me and a neighbor, being so costly that it would effectivley remove me as a superior power. If you are going to pass this act at least give me time to re-work troops over to my Border with the NRE.

We would help you in such a conflict if it became necessary.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-05-02 08:56pm

I suggest we create another thing for joining applications, as they are beginning to clog this place.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-02 09:35pm

You are an important tool to the Roman throne. They won't declare war on you.

We resent this implication. The Monacorans are our friends, and we do not leave our friends to die by the wayside.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-03 12:36am

Thirdfain wrote:
Second Point: Like the UN sanctions against Iraq was a Powerful and Effective method of showing how malignant dictatorship will not be tollerated by the Nations of the World?
His Imperial Highness is a sane man, with far fewer delusions of grandeur than the 20th century fascist Saddam Hussein had.

Undoubtably he is, but the point remains the same, sanctions won't work, they'll only cause un-needed suffering, without any result.

And you ignored my point that this action would effectivley initiate a war between me and a neighbor, being so costly that it would effectivley remove me as a superior power. If you are going to pass this act at least give me time to re-work troops over to my Border with the NRE.
This action will NOT initiate a war between you and the NRE. You are free to vote against sanctions (as I believe you have.) It won't be your fault. In fact, I am sure the NRE will prefer leaving you unharmed, as you are effectively their only supporter in the ITA. You are an important tool to the Roman throne. They won't declare war on you.

The action would force me either to negate a treaty with the NRE, which would be grounds for war, or to negete this treaty which we would REALLY rather not do.

And let's be honnest here, if I saw an unprecedented chance to attack and gain possibly incredibe amounts of ground against a weakened opponent that could be propagandized to have "backstabed" me, I would consider it heavily and might even order it done. What's to keep the NRE from doing the same?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-03 12:41am

Straha wrote:
Spyder wrote:
First point: The Asgard's offer was "support my position and I will support yours" not "support my position or bad things will happen to you". Therefor it is not extortion.

Second point: Slavery is an abomination in the face of free trade, trade sanctions against Empires that still practise slavery is a powerful message that such practises will not be tolerated by the enlightened members of the trading community.
First Point: It was more like: "Support my position and I will let you in, you don't you have one half of a Veto against you."

Second Point: Like the UN sanctions against Iraq was a Powerful and Effective method of showing how malignant dictatorship will not be tollerated by the Nations of the World?
And you ignored my point that this action would effectivley initiate a war between me and a neighbor, being so costly that it would effectivley remove me as a superior power. If you are going to pass this act at least give me time to re-work troops over to my Border with the NRE.

First point: The Asgard have made no indication that they would veto the joining of any members that are not anti-slavery. The Asgard are free to give yay votes to whoever they choose. If one has to be anti-slavery to get Asgard support then this is not extortion, it's a deal between nations. The Asgard do not decide who joins and who does not on their own, your voice is just as important as theirs. There are other members of the ITA that the Romans can appeal to for endorsing membership, you people for instance.

Second point: How much time you are granted to move your forces will be determined by the Romans. I don't see why they should become hostile when they no that you voted against sanctions, but if they do then that is their decision to make.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-05-03 12:41am

Straha wrote:And let's be honnest here, if I saw an unprecedented chance to attack and gain possibly incredibe amounts of ground against a weakened opponent that could be propagandized to have "backstabed" me, I would consider it heavily and might even order it done. What's to keep the NRE from doing the same?

You are free to leave the ITA if you want to. But the Asgard will not waiver in our suport for the anti-slavery measures. We see this as a major issue and we will not chose expedience over morality.

And if the NRE is really so untrustworthy then perhaps you should peaceably withdraw from your alliances and agreements and seek help elsewhere.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-05-03 12:41am

You will not be weakened if we help bolster your fleets

If he attacks you, you have our support.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-03 12:46am

Straha wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:
Second Point: Like the UN sanctions against Iraq was a Powerful and Effective method of showing how malignant dictatorship will not be tollerated by the Nations of the World?
His Imperial Highness is a sane man, with far fewer delusions of grandeur than the 20th century fascist Saddam Hussein had.
Undoubtably he is, but the point remains the same, sanctions won't work, they'll only cause un-needed suffering, without any result.

And you ignored my point that this action would effectivley initiate a war between me and a neighbor, being so costly that it would effectivley remove me as a superior power. If you are going to pass this act at least give me time to re-work troops over to my Border with the NRE.
This action will NOT initiate a war between you and the NRE. You are free to vote against sanctions (as I believe you have.) It won't be your fault. In fact, I am sure the NRE will prefer leaving you unharmed, as you are effectively their only supporter in the ITA. You are an important tool to the Roman throne. They won't declare war on you.
The action would force me either to negate a treaty with the NRE, which would be grounds for war, or to negete this treaty which we would REALLY rather not do.

And let's be honnest here, if I saw an unprecedented chance to attack and gain possibly incredibe amounts of ground against a weakened opponent that could be propagandized to have "backstabed" me, I would consider it heavily and might even order it done. What's to keep the NRE from doing the same?

The Minmatar request clarification: Did the Monacoran Empire just ADMIT that the use of lies and propaganda against a weakened opponant is Standard Operating Proceedure for the said Empire?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-05-03 01:47am

If they use such tactics...you should probably break your ties with them...

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-05-03 02:43am

The DE will no longer do business with the NRE due to their slave-trading

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-05-03 10:51am

Spyder wrote: The Minmatar request clarification: Did the Monacoran Empire just ADMIT that the use of lies and propaganda against a weakened opponant is Standard Operating Proceedure for the said Empire?

No, we said that we could see it happening, you must understand we are afraid for the worst possible case scenario. We don't actually believe the NRE could do this, but we are afraid for them, and we see that if we were in a seperate position we might consider distorting the truth, but we usually just declare that we are conquering this other nation, but we haven't done this since way back when in the 23rd century.

fixed overquote. ~Cpt_Frank

~Thank You

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-03 10:54am

Please remember to trim your fucking quotes down.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-03 05:23pm

Straha wrote:
No, we said that we could see it happening, you must understand we are afraid for the worst possible case scenario. We don't actually believe the NRE could do this, but we are afraid for them, and we see that if we were in a seperate position we might consider distorting the truth, but we usually just declare that we are conquering this other nation, but we haven't done this since way back when in the 23rd century.

fixed overquote. ~Cpt_Frank

~Thank You

The Minmatar accept this explanation and sympathise with the Monacoran position. Interstellar relations is often a harsh business and one must chose one's friends carefully. The ideals of free trade break down many of the barriers between our nations that would otherwise be insurmountable and foster cooperation between the nations that support it. There will however be times where we have to decide between the different paths that are laid before us. There will be many influencing factors, however there is on in particular that has an almost symbiotic relationship with free trade; ideals.