Here's a GE/UPF Question for everyone (probably been done)

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

And what use would that be if they were just as touchy-feely as the Feds?

What does quality matter when you can chuck a million of the buggers at them. This is war, Soviet Style.

[SPOOFE]

No, it's because they have superior production/infrastructure. The Federation can get the backbone to use it's tech, but it still doesn't do much.

Will you just shut up and let me make fun of the Federation in peace?!? Jeezum Crow...

[JodoForce]

And what use would that be if they were just as touchy-feely as the Feds?

What does quality matter when you can chuck a million of the buggers at them. This is war, Soviet Style.

If the PEOPLE in the GE are just as touchy-feely as the Feds (which is what SPOOFE and I mean) they won't even dare to build more ships than the Feds for fear of becoming a *militaristic* government and certainly won't think of starting a war with a race in another galaxy.

[Lord Pounder]

It doesn't matter if the Federation gets Imperial tech or not. They're never gonna have the ability to use it and they'd never have the balls to use if IF they could replicate the tech. In actual fact if i was the Emperor i'd let the Feddies hack my computers and steal the plans. Don't forget the Tarkin Doctrine, fear through threat of force rather then use of force itself. Once the Imperials let the feddies see what Imperial tech is capable off they'd be sending Picard over offering terms of surrender

But in the spirit of this debate i'll chose one and that one is the Imperial Star Destroyer design plans. Sure let them see HTL's and heavy shields. But once an Imp Star Deuce appeared on the scene the Feddies would piss themselves.

[JodoForce]

Huh? We're assuming the Feds can build up to Imp power and capacity except for the one tech you're withholding right? If you just withhold SD schematics what's to stop them from building giant 1000-saucer 4000-nacelle monsters?

[SirNitram]

No, it's because they have superior production/infrastructure. The Federation can get the backbone to use it's tech, but it still doesn't do much.

Will you just shut up and let me make fun of the Federation in peace?!? Jeezum Crow...

No. I'm here to crush your soul.

*squeezes fingers together*

I'm crushing your head!

[Durandal]

How would the Federation hack into a computer system that has totally different communication protocols? Imagine trying to hack a TCP/IP network without TCP/IP installed.

[Slartibartfast]

Military might . look at the facts a fleet with several thousand if not million craft (according to Marinas calcs) this doesnt count TIE fighters and shuttles. A standing Army and Marine copr((stormtroopers)) and the ability to supply them with what they need.((DS 2 605 complete in a few months Shadows of the Empire)).

Federation hasnt got the industrial /population base to fight them .

Yes, but you can't just steal plans for "quantity"
I guess he means a specific technology, apparently the scenario was a bad way to ask the question.

[Alyeska]

Armor. The most powerful HTL in the galaxy won't do you much good if you blow yourself to pieces whenever you try to shoot.

GE armor is not all that impressive. It relies more on other technologies to make their ships tough.

[SPOOFE]

No. I'm here to crush your soul.

You silly boy. I sold my soul to an Elder God for a lollipop...

[Wild Karrde]

Armor. The most powerful HTL in the galaxy won't do you much good if you blow yourself to pieces whenever you try to shoot.

GE armor is not all that impressive. It relies more on other technologies to make their ships tough.

Umm.... care to elaborate?

[Alyeska]

Armor. The most powerful HTL in the galaxy won't do you much good if you blow yourself to pieces whenever you try to shoot.

GE armor is not all that impressive. It relies more on other technologies to make their ships tough.

Umm.... care to elaborate?

GE armor has traditionaly been much more suseptible for KE type impacts and fighter level weapons compared to the heavier weapons. While its good that the armor is optimized for capitalship combat, this weakness can be exploited. Infact this weakness has allowed some ISDs to be needless destroyed or crippled (reference ESB asteroid scene).

[Wild Karrde]

GE armor is not all that impressive. It relies more on other technologies to make their ships tough.

Umm.... care to elaborate?

GE armor has traditionaly been much more suseptible for KE type impacts and fighter level weapons compared to the heavier weapons. While its good that the armor is optimized for capitalship combat, this weakness can be exploited. Infact this weakness has allowed some ISDs to be needless destroyed or crippled (reference ESB asteroid scene).

Wrong. the only canon example of fighters blowing something up on an ISD is the sensor globe scene in ROTJ. You don't armor somthing used for communcation.

As for the ESB example, all evidence points to the bridge suffering at the most minor damage resulting in a loss of communcations for an unknown time.

[Wild Karrde]

Shit! That part about the sensor globes should read as "you don't armor something used for the sensors", not something for communcation.

[Alyeska]

Wrong. the only canon example of fighters blowing something up on an ISD is the sensor globe scene in ROTJ. You don't armor somthing used for communcation.

Except for the little fact that the EU has several examples of fighters causing fair levels of damage to ISD armor.

As for the ESB example, all evidence points to the bridge suffering at the most minor damage resulting in a loss of communcations for an unknown time.

Incorrect. The entire forward section of the tower was completely destroyed.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Wrong. the only canon example of fighters blowing something up on an ISD is the sensor globe scene in ROTJ. You don't armor somthing used for communcation.

Except for the little fact that the EU has several examples of fighters causing fair levels of damage to ISD armor.

Bullshit. In Bacta War, Wedge describes after exhausting all his remaining torpedoes that all he could do was get close and light up his lasers--but the tone seems that he faces he can do no more damage.

B-Wing calcs clearly place heavy fighter torp minimum firepower in the 100s of gigatons.

Acclamator armor can withstand fusion warhead blasts straight to the hull without anything greater than superficial scoring. And photon/quantum torpedoes have observed sub-MT yields so...

[Wild Karrde]

Wrong. the only canon example of fighters blowing something up on an ISD is the sensor globe scene in ROTJ. You don't armor somthing used for communcation.

Except for the little fact that the EU has several examples of fighters causing fair levels of damage to ISD armor.

As for the ESB example, all evidence points to the bridge suffering at the most minor damage resulting in a loss of communcations for an unknown time.

Incorrect. The entire forward section of the tower was completely destroyed.

With most damage being caused by large numbers of torpedoes and missles ranging from high-megaton to mid-gigaton and the epII ICS quote "super-dispersive neutronium-impregnated hull cladding" your claim holds little weight.

As for the tower your wrong, the captain would not have been standing calmly seconds after the entire forward section was just destroyed. Not to menion the tower is still visible after the asteroid hits.

[Alyeska]

As for the tower your wrong, the captain would not have been standing calmly seconds after the entire forward section was just destroyed. Not to menion the tower is still visible after the asteroid hits.

Watch the scene. Watch the rate that the ISD is moving forward. The left edge of the explossion does not move outward near as much as the right edge. The bridge should have exited the left edge of the explossion and should have been spotted in the clear space. It was not. ISD bridge's don't suddenly disapear. The forward section of the tower was destroyed while the rear neck remained intact (explains why the silouet was still visible on the SSD engine glow).

[Alyeska]

Wrong. the only canon example of fighters blowing something up on an ISD is the sensor globe scene in ROTJ. You don't armor somthing used for communcation.

Except for the little fact that the EU has several examples of fighters causing fair levels of damage to ISD armor.

Bullshit. In Bacta War, Wedge describes after exhausting all his remaining torpedoes that all he could do was get close and light up his lasers--but the tone seems that he faces he can do no more damage.

B-Wing calcs clearly place heavy fighter torp minimum firepower in the 100s of gigatons.

Acclamator armor can withstand fusion warhead blasts straight to the hull without anything greater than superficial scoring. And photon/quantum torpedoes have observed sub-MT yields so...

Did I mention ST at all? I think not. As to the fighter level damage. I was talking about how fighters have been used for percision strikes against larger ships, not heavy damage. I never said fighters caused massive hull damage, I simply stated that they were a threat to capital ships and I am talking specificaly their gun systems. We already know that anti-capitalship torpedoes and missiles can cause significant hull damage.

[Alyeska]

Here is the ESB asteroid scene for reference.

http://man1ac0.tripod.com/AstTower.avi

[Wild Karrde]

As for the tower your wrong, the captain would not have been standing calmly seconds after the entire forward section was just destroyed. Not to menion the tower is still visible after the asteroid hits.

Watch the scene. Watch the rate that the ISD is moving forward. The left edge of the explossion does not move outward near as much as the right edge. The bridge should have exited the left edge of the explossion and should have been spotted in the clear space. It was not. ISD bridge's don't suddenly disapear. The forward section of the tower was destroyed while the rear neck remained intact (explains why the silouet was still visible on the SSD engine glow).

Give me a fucking break, there was no explosion on that side and the tower most certainly didn't just crumple into itself. The most simple explantion is that a fine cloud of rock from the asteroid was blocking light from that side.

You also conviently forget that the captain was still standing after this happened. If that side was destroyed he would have have given a much different reaction then just calmly rasing his hand.

[Alyeska]

Give me a fucking break, there was no explosion on that side and the tower most certainly didn't just crumple into itself. The most simple explantion is that a fine cloud of rock from the asteroid was blocking light from that side.

One problem, the debris does not block the view that much. You can see this by watching the expanding and then collapsing fireball along the main hull. The leading edge is what causes the view to be blocked. The bridge if it still existed had left the leading edge and should have been visible, it was not.

You also conviently forget that the captain was still standing after this happened. If that side was destroyed he would have have given a much different reaction then just calmly rasing his hand.

Seeing as the captain was on the holonet and was forced to leave his shields down, its logical he would move to the secondary bridge for saftey. In that case he is reacting to feed back from the loss of the bridge.

[Admiral Johnason]

Anything having to do with hypermatter. It is like antimatter on steroids.

[Wild Karrde]

Give me a fucking break, there was no explosion on that side and the tower most certainly didn't just crumple into itself. The most simple explantion is that a fine cloud of rock from the asteroid was blocking light from that side.

One problem, the debris does not block the view that much. You can see this by watching the expanding and then collapsing fireball along the main hull. The leading edge is what causes the view to be blocked. The bridge if it still existed had left the leading edge and should have been visible, it was not.

Correction, the explosion doesn't block the view that much, the dust cloud does. The explosion fits with the asteroid shattering on impact this would create a dust cloud which would block the light from the supposedly destroyed section.

You also conviently forget that the captain was still standing after this happened. If that side was destroyed he would have have given a much different reaction then just calmly rasing his hand.

Seeing as the captain was on the holonet and was forced to leave his shields down, its logical he would move to the secondary bridge for saftey. In that case he is reacting to feed back from the loss of the bridge.[/quote]

[/quote]Not likely. The secondary bridge would most likely be far from the main one, and if that's the case there would have been no reaction from the captain at all. Even if the secondary bridge was close to the main one the captain would have still been affected by the impact and given more of a reaction.

[Typhonis 1]

hmmm where is the CIC of a Star Destroyer located??? thats where the Captain should be since he could coordinte the ships actions from there.