[STGOD] New OOB Thread

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-05-02 11:39pm

I should think this should be more acceptable.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-02 11:40pm

I think seventeen thousand fighters is a bit excessive.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-05-02 11:44pm

considering that they are planet based and not FTL capable...and that some people have several ships that can deliver 1500 fighters into combat....I dont think so. But if it mkes you feel better I will take out the 3600 that used to be on my heavy cruisers.

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-05-03 07:33am

Upgraded ORBAT..I'm still making myself weak as compared to other powers, but at least I'm not way out of league now.

50 Bruiser Class

Bruiser Class are the closest thing the Kelia Alliance has to a super heavy capital warship. As such, their weapons, shields and armor are the highest in the Fleet, although their speed leaves something to be desired. Generally used for defense of the homeworld and important colonies.
Bruiser class are armed with large amounts of energy weapons, along with 2 medium-range missile tubes on the side.

50 Havoc Class

The Havoc Class is nicknamed the 'Missile Whore' for good reason. Containg a LARGE amount of missiles and missile launchers of all ranges, the Havoc's main role is to close range quickly, fire off a large volley at the enemy ships, and then get out to let the larger ships handle the threat. The missiles are rather strong, and especially useful against large groups of weak enemies. The Haovcs are equipped with one energy weapon, but this is very weak and only used when all missile supplies are exhausted. The Havoc has weak shields, as extra generators were axed in favor of more missile capacity. Engines are quick and powerful, as concentrated fire would easily destroy a Havoc.

40 modified, longe-range Havoc class

The modified Havoc class is basically a long-range missile platform. Short and medium range missiles have been nearly completely removed in favor of long range 'snipers'.

50 Victorious Class

The all-around medium class ship, the Victorious excels at nothing, but neither does it have any weak areas. Carrying both Missile and energy weapons, the engines are rather weak compared the the speed of other ships, but still strong

50 Strike Class

Name says it all. Planatary Assault Craft. Specs coming soon.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

15 Troop Transports

Carry things. Strong engines and shield, near-non existant weaponry (1 weak energy weapon is all)

2000 Wraith class fighters (100 devoted to trade fleet)

The Wraith fighter is well-known for their raids. Fast and nimble, Wraiths sport a cloaking device (allthough it uses up so much energy that 3 of the fighter's 5 energy weapons must be taken off-line while in use). The Wraith has a weaker shield than the big ship, but its STL and FTL speeds surpass any other ship of the Fleet. Shield, as always, are weak, and armor, while nearly-non existant, is improving thanks to the Durasteel imports. The Wraith mounts exactly 1 missile launcher on the front bow.
(Yes, I know I stole the general idea and name from Starcraft, so sue me)

500 Assorted frigates and support craft.

Assigned to protect the big boys from fighters and raiding craft, these are not very useful for anything else. Due to the cobbled-together nature of the Kelia Alliance's Navy, these do not have uniform specifications, but generally are not as fast the fighters, although they mount more weaponry. A good deal of these are non-combatants such as medical frigates and the like.

Mercenary Rules: The Kelia Alliance generally only loans out items to powers it knows it can trust. A running cost of several times the expenses is asked of the powers, as well as a down payment. Loss of any Kelia Alliance vessel comes with it a price of 5x the vessel's estimated worth. Paying nation is also under responsibility to protect the annonymity of the Kelia Alliance. Any act of war by an enemy of the paying nation towards the Kelia Alliance caused by the presence of Kelia Alliance ships in the paying nation's fleet results in the obligation of the paying nation to protect the Kelia Alliance. The Kelia Alliance never allows paying nations to use Kelia Alliance ships against nations with which the Kelia Alliance has any kind of friendship pact with.

Special Tech: The Kelia Alliance possess special Lockdown missilies. When one comes in contact with a mechanical device, a field is projected which renders the device useless for a brief time. A larger amount of these missiles is required depending on the size of the target (ie. ships). Their ability to penetrate shields is questionable.

That's it for now. Comments, etc. welcome

EDIT: enlarged fighter size, added Special Tech

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-03 08:02am

If you're posting a fresh order of battle it would be helpful if you edited to remove the old one.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-05-03 08:19am

Version 1.2 of the RTN's fleet information available. Now includes some info on the amount of room available to fighters, as well as info on the offensive/defensive of the fighters.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-05-03 01:25pm

Can none of you work things out on your own?

Apparently not, which is getting annoying. Therefore I'm being forced to go with actual intent rather than huge numbers since there's so much whinage going on about differing statistics since the lot of you can't seem to cooperate.

For example: my battlewagons tend to pack a number of very powerful but slow-firing guns with limited ammunition. They have strong shielding against KE strikes but below average for energy weapons.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-05-03 05:57pm

Quick & Dirty guide added to my order of battle. Hard numbers are still there for the curious.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-04 02:16am

The Minmatar 'Baseline Order Of Battle and Intersystem-Extrasystem Security'

Drone Classes <5m:

SWACS -battlefield intelligence, sufficient numbers of them crossing their sensor arcs can spot cloaked ships, smaller ships are harder to spot.

Attack - A thruster and a gun

Re-supply - Carries supplies from a resupply freighter to a ship in mid battle.

Repair - conducts battlefield repairs.

Interdictor Drone - Disrupt FTL travel (requires at least 50 to surround battlefield and cover all escape routes)

Cloak Drone - Can cloak itself and a friendly ship,
3 required for a fighter, 10 for sub-capital
50 for a capital
100-200 for a super capital

Fighter Classes <25m Deep space combat limited to carrier capacity, Expect to encounter up to 15,000 in planetary defense:
Sorsa - Superiority
Barrelatt - Bombing
Xeron – Interception

Sub-Capital Classes <300m Total: 200
40 Barrage - Gunship 150m
40 Senator - Missile ship 120m
20 Sword - Frigate 220m -Cloakable
100 Io - Light Carrier (10) 150m

Capital Classes <1km Total:185
40 Jesus - Destroyer 320m
30 Moses - Light Cruiser 370m -Cloakable
25 Allah - Cruiser 420m
20 Martyr - Heavy Cruiser 600m
10 Headway - Battleship 900m
40 Civility - Carrier (300) 650m
15 Dystopia - Missile Ship 400m

Super-Capital Classes <10km Total:15
6 Art of War - Dreadnaught 5.6km
4 Will to Power - Juggernaut (500) 9.8km
5 Republic - Super Carrier (2500) 3.1km

A word on guns:
There are weapons with slow firing rates but high yields, fast firing rates and low yields, as well as general all round weapons who have a firepower and firing rate on par with the galactic average. The weapons come in three different sizes, Sub-Capital Mount, Capital Mount, and Super Capital Mount. Bigger guns do more damage, although there will be fewer of them and larger ships are not precluded from carrying smaller weapon mounts. The projectile of choice for Capital and Super Capital high yield weapons is Irradiated Plasma, low yield weapons are ion based.

A word on Minmatar class comparrison:
A Will-to-Power (without fighter compliment) has a 50/50 chance of defeating 2 Art-Of-Wars. Minmatar Destroyers and battleships typically have more guns then missiles. Cruisers have a balanced mix of missiles and guns, whiles missile-ships concentrate primarily on lobbing missiles into the battlefield, lots upon lots of missiles. Sub-Capital classes are more for inter-system patrol then they are frontline combat, but that doesn't mean that they can't be sent to the frontlines if neccessary.

A word on missiles:
All ships in the sub capital, capital, and super capital groups can launch missiles, but some are better at it and launch bigger missiles. There are four classes capable of launching guided FTL capable missiles that can be used for either planetary bombardment, or space 'artillary'.
These are:
Headway - Battleship
Dystopia - Missile ship
Art-of-War - Dreadnaught
Will-to-Power - Juggernaught

At a closer range, the Dystopia can spam the battlefield with up to 100 10MT missiles in just under two minutes. This is a baseline figure, higher yield missiles will mean there will be less of them and more missiles mean lower yields.

FTL Travel: Basic Hyperspace, Xeron is the only class of fighter capable of it, all capital ships are FTL capable, no drones are FTL capable.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-04 02:23am

No one else has any form of interdictor system. Your sure as hell not getting one that fits on a 5 meter drone.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-05-04 02:28am

Why not? It's just an interdictor system. Unless you plan on hypering all over the place in the middle of the battle it isn't going to do anything.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-04 02:29am

Sea Skimmer wrote:No one else has any form of interdictor system. Your sure as hell not getting one that fits on a 5 meter drone.

1: Their problem
2: I need more then one to generate a field big enough to keep anything bigger then another drone at bay.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-04 02:36am

Raxmei wrote:Why not? It's just an interdictor system. Unless you plan on hypering all over the place in the middle of the battle it isn't going to do anything.

Exactly, it's not as if anyone retreats from an STGOD battle anyway. Well except the super computer that conceeded a war against the AYC (who had next to no military forces left) before a single shot was fired...

But in the interest of settling the argument I've put the number of required drones required for an average battle up to 50.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-05-04 04:04am

Raxmei wrote:Why not? It's just an interdictor system. Unless you plan on hypering all over the place in the middle of the battle

I do. Tactical FTL deployment, can save your ass from time to time.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-04 04:22am

Raxmei wrote:Why not? It's just an interdictor system. Unless you plan on hypering all over the place in the middle of the battle it isn't going to do anything.

I did, others did. And its not like an interdictor system is only going to get used after battles have begun. The advantage for setting ambushes and keeping ships away from installations is considerable

But in the interest of settling the argument I've put the number of required drones required for an average battle up to 50.

So what, 20,50, 100, you can still easily haul them on one small ship. No one else has any form of interdictor. Probably because we saw such a system used just one in DS9 and it was improvised on the spot.
Even in Star Wars a battle wide interdiction system needs a 600-meter warship to support it and they still seem to need several of them for any large action.

You want to push the tech bar up for the twentieth time again, fine I'm not arguing anymore. If such a system can be generated from a bunch of 5 meter drones then my or anyone elses capital units should have no problem doing it alone.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-05-04 04:54am

My ground forces are not as well quantified as they should. What is the range of reasonable force sizes for army/marines?

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2003-05-04 05:15am

Raxmei wrote:My ground forces are not as well quantified as they should. What is the range of reasonable force sizes for army/marines?

Depends. The PIR uses conscripts as human-waves, so the army is numbering in the billions. Alternatively, you could go for a small high-quality army that only has a few million members.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-04 05:20am

Raxmei wrote:My ground forces are not as well quantified as they should. What is the range of reasonable force sizes for army/marines?

Depends. If you want to invade planets, you need a couple tens of millions and allot of transport. If you just want to secure you own possessions you could probably get away with a couple million.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-05-04 05:49am

Is this reasonable:

Imperial forces-
~ 1,618,260 marines, 4,826,809 army

Clan forces-
~ 720,800 marines, 62,748,517 army

Figures derived by multiplying ship loadouts by four in case of marines and use of ouija board for army.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-04 06:32am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
So what, 20,50, 100, you can still easily haul them on one small ship. No one else has any form of interdictor. Probably because we saw such a system used just one in DS9 and it was improvised on the spot.
Even in Star Wars a battle wide interdiction system needs a 600-meter warship to support it and they still seem to need several of them for any large action.

You want to push the tech bar up for the twentieth time again, fine I'm not arguing anymore. If such a system can be generated from a bunch of 5 meter drones then my or anyone elses capital units should have no problem doing it alone.

20th time? Are you on crack? That was my first post to this thread. But I'm glad you've decided to see sence and not argue about it though, Phong likes it when we reach mutual understanding.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-04 06:36am

Spyder wrote:
20th time? Are you on crack? That was my first post to this thread. But I'm glad you've decided to see sence and not argue about it though, Phong likes it when we reach mutual understanding.

20 is in referance to how many drones are needed to do it. All of my major capitla units and battlestations now generate large interdiction fields on there own.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-05-04 06:43am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
20 is in referance to how many drones are needed to do it. All of my major capitla units and battlestations now generate large interdiction fields on there own.

Oh ok...so how do they move?

Just for future refference "You want to push the tech bar up for the twentieth time again" is not an effective way to communicate "You want to push the tech bar up for when there were twenty of them" which is what I assume you meant.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-05-04 07:03am

An aside about fleet design: I am not a naval strategist, but I personally believe that building your entire spacefleet out of a single class of ship is a dumb idea. The couple of you who have built fleets in this manner are free to continue; I just think it's stupid. This is not a complaint. I am perfectly happy if you keep things exactly as they are. Just don't complain when corvettes smash up your unescorted supercarriers or when battleships effortlessly destroy wave after wave of your frigates. That is the price you pay for not having a balanced fleet.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-04 07:26am

Spyder wrote:
Oh ok...so how do they move?

Its not exactly a complex operation to flip a switch and turn off your own interdictors to use FTL.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-05-04 09:44am

An aside about fleet design: I am not a naval strategist, but I personally believe that building your entire spacefleet out of a single class of ship is a dumb idea. The couple of you who have built fleets in this manner are free to continue; I just think it's stupid. This is not a complaint. I am perfectly happy if you keep things exactly as they are. Just don't complain when corvettes smash up your unescorted supercarriers or when battleships effortlessly destroy wave after wave of your frigates. That is the price you pay for not having a balanced fleet.

Raxmei makes an excellent point. On a related note, I am really unhappy with the way some people are setting up their navies. The 400 ship limit doesn't mean your fleet should contain 400 Dreadnoughts. Spyder's fleet is fully 1/2 Capital ships. Are half of the modern US naval vessels battleships and main carriers? I don't think so. If you want to field 400 warships, they should be mostly smaller vessels (corvettes, frigates, destroyers.) with maybe 10-20 percent of your vessels being capital and supercapital class. Alternitively, if you want more large vessels, scale your fleet down from the 400 limit. My fleet is mostly (2/3 rds) cruiser-sized warships (with a mix of antifighter gunships.) As payment, I'm taking only around 300 ships total. If you want to have an all-dreadnought fleet, please, restrict your numbers furthur. I guess 50 Dreadnoughts or battleships wouldn't be too bad, if that's all you had...